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8th October 2018, 11:31 | #1081 | Link | |
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So at least for 60fps 4k HEVC at the same 20Mbps bitrate, you would only need at most 50% more CPU horsepower, though if it was 60fps 30Mbps then you might need 100% more CPU horsepower. ...however, even 100% more performance should be relatively easy to achieve when you consider the following:
Combine all three aspects and you should not only be able to play 4k HEVC @ 60fps without issue, but you could probably even do it at 90fps if not 120fps. |
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8th October 2018, 11:50 | #1082 | Link |
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Consumer bitrate HEVC content can definitely software decode through ffmpeg/avcodec on a high-end'ish machine at 4K 10-bit 60 FPS (ie. like those 60 FPS UHD Blu-rays). WPP isn't really needed for that either, since its a bitstream feature thats not mandatory. Frame-based threading is fine.
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8th October 2018, 17:15 | #1083 | Link | |
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This suggests that common consumer system isn’t likely to be able to do SW 2160p60 decode for some time to come. It seems likely to me that the installed base of computers that can decode 2160p60 HEVC in HW is many times higher than that can do it in SW. Also, 60p isn’t THAT common in professional content; it’s mainly seen with sports. Entertainment seems stubbornly stuck at 24p, which is a lot easier to decode. Most PCs don’t have UHD displays, of course, and many of the devices that do have a pixel size so small that delivering UHD resolutions is kind of pointless (on a 15.4” 3840x2160 display, a well-encoded 1080p 24-60p isn’t going to be obviously degraded compared to a 2160p on the same screen). But for cases where UHD playback, particularly at high frame rates, matters, HEVC is going to have a much bigger installed base beyond 2020. |
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8th October 2018, 20:28 | #1084 | Link | |
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Mozilla Research grants available to work on AV1 related projects:
https://mozilla-research.forms.fm/mo...8h2/forms/5348 Quote:
Last edited by dapperdan; 8th October 2018 at 20:31. |
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8th October 2018, 20:37 | #1085 | Link |
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i7-7700K is capable of software-decoding HEVC 4K@60fps (10bit, >50mb/s) in real time using ffhevc. But a faster CPU (or a faster decoder) is probably required for smooth day-to-day usage.
The better optimized ffvp9 decoder is way way faster than ffhevc. I know the theoretical complexity of HEVC and VP9 decoders is not the same. But the gap here is really largely attributed to better optimizations. Assuming dav1d will reach a sufficiently-optimized state in months, I think we can conservatively predict that above mid-range devices sold in 2019 should be capable of software-decoding AV1 4K@60 fps just fine.
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8th October 2018, 20:57 | #1086 | Link |
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My 6700k at work struggles to decode 4kp24 VP9 in software (in latest Chrome playing 4k YouTube content). Switch on hardware decoding, however, and my little GTX 960 does it without breaking out a sweat (windows reports approx 30% decode utilization).
Software playback of 4kp60 AV1 on 8 modern cores seems like a reasonable target to me, but it's kind of a moot point. Your average consumer watching 4k videos on YouTube probably doesn't have an 8 core CPU. I certainly don't, and I'm a hardcore tech / video nerd I think YouTube will be using VP9 for 4kp60 VOD for quite some time, since there's lots of hardware decoders out there by now, and Google takes a very dogmatic position against HEVC |
9th October 2018, 06:05 | #1087 | Link |
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That's strange as I can play a 2160p30 VP9 YouTube video at 47fps (therefore has an effective bitrate of 28Mbps) in MPC-HC v1.8.3 x64 on my Xeon x3470 which is basically just a 1st gen i7, so surely a 6th gen i7 should have no issue with 60fps 4k VP9 let alone 24fps.
...oh, that might be the problem. If you play the exact same VP9 video stream in MPC-HC then it should be a total cakewalk for your 6700k; I believe this is because Chrome uses the libvpx decoder while MPC-HC and LAVfilters uses ffvp9. It's my impression that Firefox also utilizes ffvp9, so you may be able to alternatively use that instead of Chrome in order to get performance similar to what is seen with MPC-HC/LAVfilters. |
9th October 2018, 14:36 | #1088 | Link |
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If you want to patch ffmpeg to use libdav1d, I have this patch: https://gist.github.com/WyohKnott/09...190a9855119ba9
To test with mpv, use mpv --vd=libdav1d Some Rav1e data: https://wyohknott.github.io/video-fo...son/rav1e.html Speed is there but the quality is way way below x264 for now. |
9th October 2018, 16:11 | #1089 | Link | ||||||
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It's bitrate/ bandwidth. The UHD Blu-rays mentioned above, are 4K60fps HDR10 at 140Mbps HEVC video stream. Please, find me a non HEDT CPU that could decode such stream in real-time. I mean I doubt if Ryzen 2700X could do it or the Core i9 9900K that announced yesterday. So, regarding decoding of 4K60fps AV1 at similar bitrates of 140Mbps is surely out of question. Now, regarding AV1 decoding progress, latest LAV 0.73 using libaom is around 13% faster than previous libaom version of LAV 0.72.x which is really impressive and this is something I mentioned at LAV filters thread, the progress of libaom. Still, it seems to me as a 3 threaded decoder. Eventually, it looks like dav1d is not the only AV1 decoder progressing and the battle for the fastest AV1 decoder is still alive.
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9th October 2018, 17:21 | #1090 | Link | |
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dav1d.exe is working ok, but annoying that it requires outputting to a (huge) file. |
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9th October 2018, 21:11 | #1093 | Link | |
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Nevertheless, I personally think that 4k AV1 encoded at anything higher than 50Mbps will be extremely unlikely to exist in the wild even at 120fps. The major reason for this is because it's my impression that current video streaming services already only use ~20Mbps for their 4k 24fps content with codecs that are less efficient than AV1, and higher framerate do not require a linear increase in bitrate (last I checked, YouTube used only 33% to 50% more bits for 60fps compared to 30fps, yet the 60fps encode always looked better). Now while that only covers internet streaming and not the likes of disc media, I see it even more unlikely for AV1 to be adopted for such a thing due to a case of "not invented here" syndrome with the MPEG-LA and the various companies more interested in traditional broadcast media and the like. The one exception to this might be game consoles, but they require relatively modern and/or high-end GPUs anyway and therefore are extremely likely to have AV1 hardware decoding...and even then, as graphics become better and better, there becomes less and less of a need to utilize any sort of pre-recorded video (which takes up more storage capacity) rather than just rendering the scene in real-time. |
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9th October 2018, 21:15 | #1094 | Link | |
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9th October 2018, 22:56 | #1095 | Link |
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AV1 4k sample
There are some 4K AV1 samples to download here
https://www.elecard.com/videos I can play them with MPC-HC 1.8.3 and LAV Filters 0.73.0-1 Last edited by Mr_Khyron; 9th October 2018 at 22:59. |
9th October 2018, 23:19 | #1096 | Link |
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And your CPU is ?
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10th October 2018, 05:08 | #1097 | Link | |
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Also, does anyone know if the sources for those clips are available? This would be a great chance to do some apples-to-apples comparisons! Last edited by benwaggoner; 10th October 2018 at 05:09. Reason: Left out second point. |
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10th October 2018, 08:42 | #1100 | Link |
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For the record my i9-7900X@4.5G can play those Elecard UHD clips in realtime with libaom through LAV Filters (achieves ~33 fps on the 22mbit clip, the clip is 25 fps). Considering the state of the multi-threading in libaom, the 10 cores aren't really doing me any good, so it must be the relatively high clock I have it running at, and full AVX2.
Judging by these results, and the limited number of threads it uses now, with proper threading and more optimizations, I have no doubt that such clips would run fine on 2018/19 mainstream CPUs (ie. decently clocked quadcores with AVX2 and above), once the decoders are fully done. Of course the highest clip they had was 22mbit only, but considering AV1 is more likely to become a web format then a optical disc format, extremely high bitrates are probably going to remain very rare.
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LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders Last edited by nevcairiel; 10th October 2018 at 08:44. |
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