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Old 28th June 2013, 16:55   #1261  |  Link
CatBus
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Suggestion: BDSup2Sub should have an option to use hqx for subtitle scaling. I've done a test run scaling DVD subtitles to HD resolution using hqx and the results are fantastic, much better than any of the current scaling options in BDSup2Sub. This sort of scaling doesn't work well for photos and such, but it seems ideal for scaling DVD subtitles with their limited resolution and color palette. It may also work decently for HD subtitles, but I don't think there would be much benefit and it may cause a posterization effect because of the wider color palette. The big downside is that it is slow.

Basically, I used hqx to scale my DVD subtitle to 3x its normal resolution, then I used a more general-purpose scaling algorithm (Lanczos) to scale/stretch it back down to the exact right dimensions for HD. I then did a contrast boost to get back the sharpness/whiter whites/blacker blacks. I'm not sure how well it might work with other color combinations than black/white, but I think it would probably work quite well. I believe there is a sample implementation in both Java and C.
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Old 30th June 2013, 13:16   #1262  |  Link
mjuhasz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CatBus View Post
Just confirmed that the flickering problem is actually not present in the current version--sorry! Was using easySUP, which includes a very old version of BDSup2Sub. The flicker can be fixed by either a current version of BDSup2Sub or BDSupEdit. DVD issues are still present in the current version AFAICT.
The flickering problem sounds like one of the issues I fixed in v4.0.1:

Fixed: Flashing subtitles - if the end time of the current subtitle picture is beyond the start time of the next one the subtitle was set to zero length.

Fixed: Incorrect (too short) subtitle duration for dvd subtitle frames using subtitle effects
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Old 30th June 2013, 13:47   #1263  |  Link
mjuhasz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post
Any progress identifying what can cause the jittery subtitles on some devices?
I assumed it was my interlaced display (an old CRT), but the latest version I tried still produces this on a new HDTV connected to the DVD player via HDMI.
I am trying to collect information about the jittery subtitle issue but this thread is very long so if someone could recap what the actual problem is, how to reproduce it and if there is any workaround for it that would speed things up.
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Old 30th June 2013, 13:52   #1264  |  Link
mjuhasz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CatBus View Post
Second, the subtitle jitter issue is definitely due to the cropping of DVD subtitles. I've taken subtitles that displayed this jittery behavior and manually expanded them to fit the full frame, and the jitter goes away. If you don't have a hardware player that displays this issue (I have a Pioneer DV-333 that does it--it's old, but was a fairly well-regarded player for its time), you can open the subtitle in DVDSubEdit, and enable the zoom window. If the image in the zoom window wobbles up and down as you adjust the vertical position, that subtitle has the problem.

The jitter is a harder issue to fix, but I think I have something that should work. Right now, BDSup2Sub autocrops as it imports subtitles and that part is fine--it allows some nice features to work and I see no reason to change that. However, when BDSup2Sub exports any DVD subtitle, it should uncrop that subtitle first: i.e. create a transparent canvas the size of the full frame and position the subtitle on that canvas. That way, regardless of what the input format is, cropped or uncropped, and no matter what operation you want to perform, everything will still work, and the output will always have maximum compatibility. The downside to any fix for this issue is that the files for uncropped DVD subs are nearly twice as big as cropped subs. If this is considered a problem, perhaps the auto-uncrop feature could be optional. Either way, I think this problem may be more common than this thread indicates because techies tend to have newer hardware than the general population.
Very useful, thank you for posting!
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Old 30th June 2013, 18:31   #1265  |  Link
DoctorM
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I have seen the same issue in a Pansonic DVD player, also considered fairly good. It seems to be from the player not output since the jitter will appear on 4x3 CRT TVs via svid cables or as upscaled progressive scan HD via HDMI.
Just opening and saving subtitles with BDSup2Sub without any changes will produce this. It is definitely to do with the autocropping that occurs.
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Old 9th August 2013, 12:47   #1266  |  Link
TheSkiller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post
It is definitely to do with the autocropping that occurs.
Yes, that's causing it.
I've been telling this often: for DVD better don't use cropped subtitles.
It's not going to save much bits anyway because the bitmaps (on DVD) are RLE compressed, so any unused space hardly eats any bits.

Anyway, you can prevent BDSup2Sub from cropping the subpics by launching it via commandline (or create a BAT for convenience), adding "/acrop:0".

Last edited by TheSkiller; 9th August 2013 at 12:52.
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Old 10th August 2013, 18:09   #1267  |  Link
DoctorM
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Originally Posted by TheSkiller View Post
Yes, that's causing it.
I've been telling this often: for DVD better don't use cropped subtitles.
It's not going to save much bits anyway because the bitmaps (on DVD) are RLE compressed, so any unused space hardly eats any bits.

Anyway, you can prevent BDSup2Sub from cropping the subpics by launching it via commandline (or create a BAT for convenience), adding "/acrop:0".
If autocrop can be turned off, why can't the GUI have a selectable option for this?
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Old 19th August 2013, 17:35   #1268  |  Link
CatBus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSkiller View Post
Yes, that's causing it.
I've been telling this often: for DVD better don't use cropped subtitles.
It's not going to save much bits anyway because the bitmaps (on DVD) are RLE compressed, so any unused space hardly eats any bits.

Anyway, you can prevent BDSup2Sub from cropping the subpics by launching it via commandline (or create a BAT for convenience), adding "/acrop:0".
The problem is that if you're converting from Blu-ray to DVD format, the subtitles are (typically) already cropped to begin with, so the /acrop flag doesn't do anything helpful in this scenario. For myself, I've used a Perl/ImageMagick scripted solution to uncrop each subtitle before feeding it to BDSup2Sub (with the /acrop flag) to create DVD-format subs from BD-format sources. But if BDSup2Sub did this automatically, that would obviously be better.
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Old 7th September 2013, 20:27   #1269  |  Link
kukushka
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is some rare cases (russian, spanish bd's) i encounter some weird subs that after standart processing within bdsup2sub are losing their transparency (even that within bdsup2sub or supread they still look ok)
here's how it looks like http://gyazo.com/43a96dec65f19f8db5eadfe75c52f70e
and here are a few lines from problematic subs before bdsup2sub, they still can be muxed fine if they won't get processed through bdsup2sub
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/372935/test.sup
does anybody know any way around this problem? thanks
tried with ++ - same effect

Last edited by kukushka; 7th September 2013 at 21:02.
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Old 4th November 2013, 19:42   #1270  |  Link
De_Hollander
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delay is not woring well with a blu-ray sup, I give in 7250 ms delay, the first lines are good but in the middel it's go's wrong.
I working with BDSup2Sub511
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Old 4th November 2013, 20:38   #1271  |  Link
De_Hollander
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problem is solved
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Old 8th December 2013, 20:41   #1272  |  Link
DoctorM
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Where can the most recent version be found? I'm wondering if this should be spun off to a new thread so the first post can be kept up to date.
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Old 8th December 2013, 21:32   #1273  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post
Where can the most recent version be found? I'm wondering if this should be spun off to a new thread so the first post can be kept up to date.
Development has been taken over by paradoxical (who is no longer a member of the forum) and renamed to BDSup2Sub++.

The latest version is over at his new thread: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=167051
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Old 9th December 2013, 07:17   #1274  |  Link
mjuhasz
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The original Java version is maintained here:

https://github.com/mjuhasz/BDSup2Sub/wiki

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparktank View Post
Development has been taken over by paradoxical (who is no longer a member of the forum) and renamed to BDSup2Sub++.

The latest version is over at his new thread: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=167051
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Old 9th December 2013, 19:28   #1275  |  Link
DoctorM
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Thanks, I'll take a look.
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Old 22nd December 2013, 08:18   #1276  |  Link
mood
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I have problem with this sup file in BDSup2Sub 5.1.1

the BDSup2Sub 5.1.1 only load 2084 lines but the total of lines is 2088.

BDSup2Sub++ 1.0.2 load all the 2088 lines without problem, but BDSup2Sub 5.1.1 misse 4 lines only load 2084.

Here is my sup file: http://www28.zippyshare.com/v/12124972/file.html
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Old 25th December 2013, 15:35   #1277  |  Link
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I'm also only slightly confused on who's doing all the versions of BDSUP2SUB. I was wondering if someone could shed some light on how to identify forced subs on BDs.
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Old 25th December 2013, 17:20   #1278  |  Link
laserfan
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I'm also only slightly confused on who's doing all the versions...
I am more than slightly confused!
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Old 26th December 2013, 09:12   #1279  |  Link
mjuhasz
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BDSup2Sub was originally written by Volker Oth (0xdeadbeef) in 2009. I have been using this tool extensively, did some bugfixes for myself and I wanted to mainline them. In February 2012 I contacted Volker Oth who confirmed that he had stopped development and participation in the Doom9 thread and he did not see see much of a chance of getting back to BDSup2Sub again. With his permission I moved the codebase and documentation to GitHub and started maintaining the application. Time permitting I do some development on it but it is mainly in maintenance mode. I do monitor this forum thread and the issue tracker on GitHub.

BDSup2Sub++ is a port of the original BDSup2Sub by 0xdeadbeef to C++ and QT. I am not in contact with its developer and there is no compatibility maintained between the applications. The command line interface is different, there is difference in terms of features and possibly bugs as well.

It is unfortunate that the distinction between the tools are not clear. While they share the same roots they don't have much to do with each other and it would be better to have stronger separation: separate forum threads, VideoHelp page, etc.
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Old 26th December 2013, 14:30   #1280  |  Link
laserfan
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Thanks for the explanation, I appreciate it mjuhasz! I think I might still have 3.9.9 or 4.0.0 but I will try your 5.1.1 now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjuhasz View Post
BDSup2Sub was originally written by Volker Oth (0xdeadbeef) in 2009. I have been using this tool extensively, did some bugfixes for myself and I wanted to mainline them. In February 2012 I contacted Volker Oth who confirmed that he had stopped development and participation in the Doom9 thread and he did not see see much of a chance of getting back to BDSup2Sub again. With his permission I moved the codebase and documentation to GitHub and started maintaining the application. Time permitting I do some development on it but it is mainly in maintenance mode. I do monitor this forum thread and the issue tracker on GitHub.

BDSup2Sub++ is a port of the original BDSup2Sub by 0xdeadbeef to C++ and QT. I am not in contact with its developer and there is no compatibility maintained between the applications. The command line interface is different, there is difference in terms of features and possibly bugs as well.

It is unfortunate that the distinction between the tools are not clear. While they share the same roots they don't have much to do with each other and it would be better to have stronger separation: separate forum threads, VideoHelp page, etc.

Last edited by laserfan; 26th December 2013 at 14:33.
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