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Old 28th April 2014, 21:07   #26281  |  Link
Nico8583
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Hi,
I would like to play my 1080p MKV with MPC-HC or Potplayer (I don't really test them but it's another subject ) without any filter (resize & co).
I have a Gigabyte Brix with 2955u CPU and Intel HD Graphics, and I would like to know if there is a difference between MadVR and others like LAV Filters and FFDShow, if I don't use any filter ?
Thanks !
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Old 28th April 2014, 21:45   #26282  |  Link
huhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico8583 View Post
Hi,
I would like to play my 1080p MKV with MPC-HC or Potplayer (I don't really test them but it's another subject ) without any filter (resize & co).
I have a Gigabyte Brix with 2955u CPU and Intel HD Graphics, and I would like to know if there is a difference between MadVR and others like LAV Filters and FFDShow, if I don't use any filter ?
Thanks !
MadVR is a renderer first of all you need a renderer!
you can watch things with MadVR "untouched" there are still things you have to do chroma up sampling for example.

lavfilter is a video decocder, audio decoder, splitter and can do processing deintlacing/audio mixing.
ffdshow is a audio/video decoder and a image processor.

so the difference between ffdshow/lavfilter and MadVr is that one is renderer the rest not.

if you don't use MadVR you are using something else like VMR 9 or EVR CP. but they do things that need to be done in not the best way and they are affected by the gpu driver and the GPU driver thinks playing around with videos is a cool thing...

if you want to watch your movies in the most neutral way MadVR is a very very good choice.
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Old 28th April 2014, 21:49   #26283  |  Link
DD51
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sorry newbie here...

I have just 1 single problem with MadVR that I cannot figure out why it is happening.

when watching a TV show (720p) in full view it stutters like crazy.
It is silky smooth in windowed mode (not full screen)

No other files does this.
I have to use EVR for these files to play smooth.

what am I doing wrong?
thanks in advance

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Old 28th April 2014, 22:13   #26284  |  Link
dansrfe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DD51 View Post
sorry newbie here...

I have just 1 single problem with MadVR that I cannot figure out why it is happening.

when watching a TV show (720p) in full view it stutters like crazy.
It is silky smooth in windowed mode (not full screen)

No other files does this.
I have to use EVR for these files to play smooth.

what am I doing wrong?
thanks in advance

This happened for a couple of my files as well. I think it has to do with improper frame rate tagging on the container. You may need to remux those particular files.

Last edited by dansrfe; 28th April 2014 at 22:21.
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Old 28th April 2014, 22:47   #26285  |  Link
livache
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* "Pause" OSD message no longer blocked

could this be made optional, please?
It displays the paused OSD at the end of playback in mpc-hc instead of just black fullscreen.
That can cause burn on plasma if left unsupervised for many hours (like falling asleep and forgetting to set the timer). MPC-HC doesn't show that paused OSD with any other renderer and probably for good reason.
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Old 28th April 2014, 22:56   #26286  |  Link
huhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DD51 View Post
sorry newbie here...

I have just 1 single problem with MadVR that I cannot figure out why it is happening.

when watching a TV show (720p) in full view it stutters like crazy.
It is silky smooth in windowed mode (not full screen)

No other files does this.
I have to use EVR for these files to play smooth.

what am I doing wrong?
thanks in advance

i guess your display is 1080p. what happen when you drag the windowed mode window bigger?

how high are the render times in fullscreen (control + j)and what type of hardware are you using?
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Old 28th April 2014, 23:13   #26287  |  Link
turbojet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbojet View Post
Here's a clip that glitches while seeking and from the start: http://www.mediafire.com/download/5f...int%3Dfilm.mpg it's reproducable most of the time, just jump around. If SM is off it doesn't happen at 60hz. At 48 and 50hz the glitches happen at 72 and 75 the glitches don't happen.


Is there already a bug entry in the tracker for this? If not, could you please create one? I don't have time for madVR at the moment. So this problem will get lost and forgotten if you don't add it to the tracker.
There isn't, I brought it up here because of a good chance that it might be something only I'm experiencing, like so many things in the past. I'll add it to the bugtracker if others experience the same thing. Do they?

I'm also experiencing random slow motion when ivtcing 59 to 23. No dropped frames or cadence breaks and the only way to get it back to normal speed is to seek or pause/play. If I rewatch where slow motion first started it plays fine. Anyone else experiencing this?
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PotPlayer/MPC-BE LAVFilters MadVR-Bicubic75AR/Lanczos4AR/Lanczos4AR LumaSharpen -Strength0.9-Pattern3-Clamp0.1-OffsetBias2.0

Last edited by turbojet; 28th April 2014 at 23:16.
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Old 28th April 2014, 23:31   #26288  |  Link
DD51
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thanks for the replies guys...

My apologies for not stating my equipment.
CPU 3570K
Display is 1080p (projector JVC RS45)
Videocard is HD7770
MadVR settings:
Chroma upscaling: NNED13 - 16 neurons
Image doubling: all ticked
Image Upscaling: Jinc 3 taps- AARF ticked and so isscale-in linear light
Image downscaling: Catmull-Rom AARF ticked only
Smooth motion: enabled - middle one selected

1080p files play super smooth no problems whatsover.
I'll try remuxing the files to see of that works.

anything else I can check?

thank you again...
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Old 28th April 2014, 23:50   #26289  |  Link
Anime Viewer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DD51 View Post
thanks for the replies guys...

Image doubling: all ticked
1080p files play super smooth no problems whatsover.
I'll try remuxing the files to see of that works.

anything else I can check?

thank you again...
Having everything checked for image doubling is where I think your problem lies. Many people (including myself) automatically get dropped frames when having Chroma resolution double checked. Try with only the Luma double checked and see if it runs without dropped frames.

Since your default resolution of 1080 and the 1080 file match there is no doubling occurring, so that would be why you don't see it occurring with 1080 files.
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Last edited by Anime Viewer; 29th April 2014 at 00:03.
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Old 29th April 2014, 00:09   #26290  |  Link
DD51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anime Viewer View Post
Having everything checked for image doubling is where I think your problem lies. Many people (including myself) automatically get dropped frames when having Chroma resolution double checked. Try with only the Luma double checked and see if it runs without dropped frames.

Since your default resolution of 1080 and the 1080 file match there is no doubling occurring, so that would be why you don't see it occurring with 1080 files.
OMG...thank you sooo much Anime Viewer...no more dropped frames

I cannot begin to tell you how long I've had this problem and I practically tried everything!
I guess I didn't!!!!

A super big thanks again.
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Old 29th April 2014, 01:27   #26291  |  Link
jkauff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DD51 View Post
OMG...thank you sooo much Anime Viewer...no more dropped frames

I cannot begin to tell you how long I've had this problem and I practically tried everything!
I guess I didn't!!!!
Are you using profiles for doubling? My profile for 1080p content uses no doubling at all, since it's unneeded unless you have a TV or other display that is larger than 1920x1080.
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Old 29th April 2014, 01:36   #26292  |  Link
Asmodian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DD51 View Post
thanks for the replies guys...

My apologies for not stating my equipment.
CPU 3570K
Display is 1080p (projector JVC RS45)
Videocard is HD7770
MadVR settings:
Chroma upscaling: NNED13 - 16 neurons
Image doubling: all ticked
Image Upscaling: Jinc 3 taps- AARF ticked and so isscale-in linear light
Image downscaling: Catmull-Rom AARF ticked only
Smooth motion: enabled - middle one selected

1080p files play super smooth no problems whatsover.
I'll try remuxing the files to see of that works.

anything else I can check?

thank you again...
I have never seen someone recommend linear light for image upscaling but I do prefer it for downscaling. You seem to have them set backwards? AARF? You mean Anti Ringing (AR, always good)?

If you want to try doubling try it without NNEDI3 chroma scaling. I prefer Jinc3 chroma + NNEDI3 32 luma doubling to NNEDI3 16 chroma + no luma doubling (Jinc3 image) but the first does take more GPU power than the second.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anime Viewer View Post
Having everything checked for image doubling is where I think your problem lies. Many people (including myself) automatically get dropped frames when having Chroma resolution double checked. Try with only the Luma double checked and see if it runs without dropped frames.

Since your default resolution of 1080 and the 1080 file match there is no doubling occurring, so that would be why you don't see it occurring with 1080 files.
A lot of people seem to be confused how these work. It isn't that you "automatically get dropped frames when having Chroma resolution double checked" it is that chroma doubling is twice as hard as luma doubling and it all adds up (also chroma doubling doesn't help quality very much). Watch your average render times and keep them below the movie frame interval. Ctrl-J is your friend and the change in the "average render time" stat tells you the exact cost of different options with whatever resolution is currently playing. Don't simply start ticking all the NNEDI3 options; remember NNEDI3 is for punishing video cards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkauff View Post
Are you using profiles for doubling? My profile for 1080p content uses no doubling at all, since it's unneeded unless you have a TV or other display that is larger than 1920x1080.
It wouldn't matter if you turned it on for 1080p displayed at 1080p, even if set to "always" madVR will not double if no scaling needs to be done.
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Old 29th April 2014, 03:10   #26293  |  Link
StinDaWg
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Take a step back and look at the bigger picture, in this case usability: Ideally you want to just playback some content without having to worry about which cadence it has. It should be madVR's job, only, to worry about such things. Why would you have to force madVR into film mode? Why does madVR not detect such things itself and switch everything around accordingly? The reason for that is that I've simply not implemented film vs video detection for interlaced content yet. But at some point I plan to.

Now let's look at 720p50/60 content: For this I don't have to detect film vs. video, I just have to detect the underlying cadence and that already tells me everything I need to do. So decimating 720p50/60 content is much easier than handling unknown interlaced content.

Basically, madVR could already be able *right now* to automatically handle any 720p50/60 content and decimate whatever needs to be decimated. So you could enable madVR decimation for progressive content and you'd never ever have to disable it again. E.g. consider watching TV broadcasts in real time: There'll be a movie (3:2 frame cadence), then there'll be some ads (maybe 3:2, or 2:2, or 1:1 frame cadence). madVR's cadence detection should auto detect all that and can then throw away just the duplicate frames. The nice thing is that everything could be done automatically.

However, here comes the catch: There's a chance that the cadence could change back and forth multiple times in a short time period, e.g. from one advertisement spot to the next. We do not really want madVR to switch refresh rates all the time when that happens, do we? So running at 60Hz makes some sense because it can handle any cadence, and smooth motion takes take of 3:2 content, too.

Of course I understand that if you know for a fact that your content is really film only, and every part of it is 3:2 cadence, then there's no need to use 60Hz and you can simply use 23Hz instead. But this once again requires your input: You need to tell madVR that you know that the content is straight 23Hz all the way through. Maybe I should add an option for that. But for the majority of users, letting madVR do everything automatically is preferable, and that's why currently I'm staying at 60Hz.
Ya, I'm sure once you implement film vs video detection things will be a little easier to figure out for the user. Right now I just force film on everything and switch to video mode via keyboard shortcut when I occasionally have a true interlaced video.

+1 on adding a "force film" type option for progressive content like you have for deinterlacing. All of the shows I watch already have commercials cut, so it's a 3:2 cadence the entire time.

Last edited by StinDaWg; 29th April 2014 at 03:32.
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Old 29th April 2014, 15:54   #26294  |  Link
DD51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
I have never seen someone recommend linear light for image upscaling but I do prefer it for downscaling. You seem to have them set backwards? AARF? You mean Anti Ringing (AR, always good)?

If you want to try doubling try it without NNEDI3 chroma scaling. I prefer Jinc3 chroma + NNEDI3 32 luma doubling to NNEDI3 16 chroma + no luma doubling (Jinc3 image) but the first does take more GPU power than the second.
Thank you for correcting my settings. I have made the necessary adjustments MadVR.
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Old 29th April 2014, 17:15   #26295  |  Link
seiyafan
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I cannot tell any difference between nearest neighbor and NNEDI3 for chroma upscaling, but the difference between them for luma doubling is noticeable.
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Old 30th April 2014, 02:27   #26296  |  Link
SecurityBunny
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I believe I have found an issue with the new windowed mode.

Randomly half way through watching a video, the render queue drops to half of the present queue. Playback starts fine, all queues fill up, no dropped frames, rendering is ~27ms for 23.976 playback. At random, usually after some minutes, the video playback glitches. If you are using ReClock, audio starts to pop constantly and frames drop until you pause the video. The render queue was playing at 19-20/20, but drops to 7-8/20. I have tried raising and lowering all queue sizes, but seems to always drop to half of what the 'frames in advance' is set to. Pausing and starting video playback again refills the queues to the full values, but it drops again after some time. Occurs with and without ReClock. (Currently not using ReClock.)

I should also note that the rendering ms stats begin to slowly climb upward when the render queue is bugged at 7-8/20. For me, it began at 27ms, but climbed upwards to 40ms before I stopped and restarted the video.

Switching to fullscreen exclusive mode, this bug does not occur and the render queue remains full all the time.

MPC-HC 1.7.4.15
Nvidia Driver 337.61
MadVR 0.87.10
Display: 2560x1440
Windows 8.1

MadVR Settings.
No 'trade quality for performance' options.
No 'general settings' options.
CPU queue 24, GPU queue 20.
Windowed mode, 16 frames in advance.
Smooth motion 'only if...'
ED2 dithering with both options checked.
Debanding medium/high.
NNEDI3 32 / NNEDI3 32 luma double / Jinc3 AR / Catmull-Rom AR LL

I have also noticed that if the CPU and GPU queue are the same size, the 'render queue' will be one number off.

Example with CPU queue 20, GPU queue 20, frames in advance 16.

decoder queue: 19-20/20
upload queue 19-20/20
render queue 18-19/20
present queue 15-16/16


Example with CPU queue 24, GPU queue 20, frames in advance 16.

decoder queue: 23-24/24
upload quieue 19-20/20
render queue 19-20/20
present queue 15-16/16

Last edited by SecurityBunny; 30th April 2014 at 21:56.
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Old 1st May 2014, 00:41   #26297  |  Link
Sm3n
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Hi folks,

I'd like to understand something.

Sometimes madVR gives me lot of dropped frames but not with all videos, but mostly with 1080i HDTV MPEG. madVR is set with high values. I can easely play full bluray, 1080p or upscaled 720p without any drop or delay! So what's the deal with HDTV interlaced (ts) files?
I thought it was the last update of madVR, so I downgrade. Same thing. I also downgrade LAV filter etc. Nothing.

For exemple, last week I've been able to watch a certain show, but this week it's dropping.

Cheers
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Old 1st May 2014, 01:41   #26298  |  Link
huhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sm3n View Post
Hi folks,

I'd like to understand something.

Sometimes madVR gives me lot of dropped frames but not with all videos, but mostly with 1080i HDTV MPEG. madVR is set with high values. I can easely play full bluray, 1080p or upscaled 720p without any drop or delay! So what's the deal with HDTV interlaced (ts) files?
I thought it was the last update of madVR, so I downgrade. Same thing. I also downgrade LAV filter etc. Nothing.

For exemple, last week I've been able to watch a certain show, but this week it's dropping.

Cheers
you provide very little informations. no hardware spec at all.

but still 1080p29i is very very hard because this is normally played at 60 fps with deinterlacing, a normal 1080p23 BD is a joke compared to this.

you need rendertimes below 16 ms to run MadVR with 60 fps.
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Old 1st May 2014, 19:39   #26299  |  Link
Sm3n
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
you provide very little informations. no hardware spec at all.
Yeah, sure:

- Nvidia GTX 670
- i7 3770K @4.34 GHz
- 16 GB ram

I'm running on windows 8.1 x64, with MPC-HC, k-lite codec pack (LAV filters for video), madVR, Autofrequency, Reclock, Avisynth MT. x86 version for all programs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
you need rendertimes below 16 ms to run MadVR with 60 fps.
What do you mean by "rendertimes below 16 ms"?
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Old 1st May 2014, 19:57   #26300  |  Link
vivan
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Originally Posted by Sm3n View Post
What do you mean by "rendertimes below 16 ms"?
average rendering time in OSD (Ctrl+J).
If there're 60 frames per second - then each frame should be rendered faster than 1/60 = 0.0166 s = 16.6 ms.
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