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Old 27th April 2014, 02:47   #26241  |  Link
Mangix
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if Nvidia truly supports OpenCL 1.1, shouldn't this line of code be changed to use || ?

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#if defined(__GPU__) && defined(__AMD__) && __OPENCL_VERSION__ >= 110
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Old 27th April 2014, 16:53   #26242  |  Link
James Freeman
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madshi, I think we're ready for a high quality Frame Interpolation algorithm now...
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Old 27th April 2014, 17:03   #26243  |  Link
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I get the sense that the NVIDIA OpenCL bug will likely get fixed in the driver that upgrades from version 1.1 to 1.2 since it seems that the bug occured from 1.0 to 1.1.
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Old 27th April 2014, 17:04   #26244  |  Link
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madshi, I think we're ready for a high quality Frame Interpolation algorithm now...

No I don't think so... Frame Interpolation is just bad VooDoo

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Old 27th April 2014, 17:22   #26245  |  Link
James Freeman
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No I don't think so... Frame Interpolation is just bad VooDoo
Bad Frame Interpolation is bad.
HFR is the future.
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Old 27th April 2014, 18:09   #26246  |  Link
aufkrawall
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Personally, I think "proper" frame interpolation with madVR would be a dream.

Different topic:
Does anyone know if DXVA scaling with Maxwell is still bilinear + sharpening?
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Old 27th April 2014, 19:20   #26247  |  Link
QBhd
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So you guys want to take up GPU resources to do something that is not really the job of a renderer. Interesting concept when we are all trying to squeeze every last drop of GPU performance for the best PQ image scaling.

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Old 27th April 2014, 19:29   #26248  |  Link
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What's the difference to current smooth motion?
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Old 27th April 2014, 21:44   #26249  |  Link
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Smooth Motion is a mathematically exact way to display a frame rate at a different refresh rate while frame interpolation is trying to guess what a middle frame might have looked like and cannot be done without artifacts (in the near future at least). There is no "correct" way to do the interpolation and lots of situations where the best course is simply not to attempt an interpolation. This is a very complex problem with no right answer, a much bigger development effort, and no way to reach near perfection so I can see why madshi would not implement or would wait to implement something.
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Old 27th April 2014, 22:10   #26250  |  Link
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smooth motion blends frames occasionally, in case the video framerate isn't a multiple of the display refresh rate to avoid sudden jumps and skips.

frame interpolation (check out SVP if you wanna test it) analyses the difference between two frames and "guesses" the step inbetween (often taking multiple frames before and after into account). While this works remarkably well for stills and simple panning shots, anything fast moving (action scenes, etc.) and transforming will cause major artifacts unfortunately. Also, its pretty tough to calculate, so dont expect this to work properly on a laptop or something!

most smart TVs (imo smart means dumb, because they suck big time!) have such a feature built in with some ways to tune it (be it on/off or degree of interpolation).
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Old 27th April 2014, 23:07   #26251  |  Link
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There is also a fundamental difference in that the goal of Smooth Motion is to get closer to the way the content is supposed to look (native frame rate). It's much harder however to advocate motion interpolation because it tends to impose a "soap opera" look on everything, which arguably violates the artist's intent. Therefore it is a highly controversial feature and not at all an obvious "next step" or improvement. The real solution is to fix the source (i.e. HFR, high frame rate material) so that the artist can do whatever he wants, but that's still a long ways out it seems.
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Old 27th April 2014, 23:18   #26252  |  Link
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it tends to impose a "soap opera" look on everything,
Could you describe what this means? I don't tend to watch soap operas so I can't really picture it.
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Old 27th April 2014, 23:28   #26253  |  Link
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Could you describe what this means? I don't tend to watch soap operas so I can't really picture it.
Everything looks unnaturally smooth and fake.
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Old 27th April 2014, 23:30   #26254  |  Link
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Everything looks unnaturally smooth and fake.
Have you seen the Hobbit moves at 48 fps? That's what it looks like, though those movies were shot at 48fps (double of standard cinema frame rate of 24 fps or 23.976) and thus everything looks very smooth and and fluid. So those movies don't have any artificial frames inserted which can cause artifacts.
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Old 27th April 2014, 23:31   #26255  |  Link
e-t172
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Could you describe what this means? I don't tend to watch soap operas so I can't really picture it.
Basically anything on TV that's not a movie or a TV show. News, sports, most documentaries, etc. the kind of thing one usually deinterlaces with double frame rate (as opposed to IVTC). Making movies look like this radically changes their look in a way that the artist never intended. Some people like it and don't care about accuracy or the artist's intent, some (like me) do. Which is why I would probably never use such a feature even if it was artifact-free.

For the (very) rare movies that are originally shot a high frame rate (such as hobbit HFR) this is fine since that's what the artist intended.

Last edited by e-t172; 27th April 2014 at 23:37.
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Old 27th April 2014, 23:42   #26256  |  Link
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Have you seen the Hobbit moves at 48 fps? That's what it looks like
Actually there is quite a visible difference between movies shot at higher frame rates and movies interpolated to higher framerates. You can't properly undo the motion blur applied to the 24 fps movies, so you'll never get the sharp and fluid look of a true high-fps movie, it'll always be blurrier.
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Old 28th April 2014, 00:10   #26257  |  Link
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Actually there is quite a visible difference between movies shot at higher frame rates and movies interpolated to higher framerates. You can't properly undo the motion blur applied to the 24 fps movies, so you'll never get the sharp and fluid look of a true high-fps movie, it'll always be blurrier.
This.

I'm a big fan of 60 fps for sporting events, but that's true 60 fps and not frame interpolation.
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Old 28th April 2014, 00:15   #26258  |  Link
Ver Greeneyes
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Thanks for the answers guys I don't know how sensitive I am to this, although the 8 fps hand drawn Studio Ghibli stuff is really uncomfortable to watch for me (I understand the tradeoff, but it hurts my eyes).
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Old 28th April 2014, 00:29   #26259  |  Link
jmone
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I have a camcorder that shoots AVC in 1920x0180/50p (28Mbps) and it is great. No Interlacing issues, smooth panning and all very natural. I would prefer to have HFR over 4K for commercial content as on most screen sizes you can not visually resolve the higher res but the HFR is easily noticed.
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Old 28th April 2014, 00:52   #26260  |  Link
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Everything looks unnaturally smooth and fake.
Disagree. 50/60 fps looks much more realistic than 24/25 fps, but that's the whole point. The "film look" (low fps) is the one that's unnatural and unrealistic, which is why it's so jarring to see films at 48 fps, for example. Just need to get used to it really.

There's plenty of 50/60 fps content out there but interpolated stuff will never look as good obviously.
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