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Old 14th December 2012, 21:43   #16281  |  Link
Asmodian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fallengt View Post
How do I create a compatible 3Dlut file for Madvr?. I used DiscalGUI(argyllCMS) to create icm profile and then create 3dlut profile(.3dl) from it but can't add it to madvr; "not valid 3dlut file" error.
You need to use yCMS to create the 3Dlut file, or you can just measure the primaries and gamma curve of your calibrated display and write that into MadVR which creates the 3Dlut for you.

This is for converting the video's gamut to the display's gamut and displaying with the desired gamma, not doing what I would call a full calibration as is done with a "normal" CMS.
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Old 14th December 2012, 21:59   #16282  |  Link
DragonQ
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Found an example of incorrect ITU scaling on an HD upscale of SD material broadcast on E4 HD:

DVD = ITU (702x576= 16:9)
HD Upscaled = full-frame scaling (720x576 = 16:9)
HD Upscaled adjusted for ITU

The HD upscale has more of the frame visible but I'm not sure which one of these is correct in terms of scaling. The black bars on either side of the HD upscale suggest that the DVD might be correct - if true, it's a shame that a public service broadcaster can't even get this right.
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Old 14th December 2012, 23:48   #16283  |  Link
fallengt
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post

This is for converting the video's gamut to the display's gamut and displaying with the desired gamma, not doing what I would call a full calibration as is done with a "normal" CMS.
nvm. I should read intruction first

Last edited by fallengt; 14th December 2012 at 23:58.
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Old 15th December 2012, 01:17   #16284  |  Link
glc650
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RGB level

Hello,

Been following the RGB level discussions of the last few days in this thread and I'm not sure how I should have this configured for my setup.

My TV does not seem to have any settings for this but from what I can gather online it supports 0-255.

So assuming this is correct, how should I setup CCC (Radeon 6570), madVR, and LAV video?

I use my HTPC for viewing photos and media playback (BR rips, AVCHD camcorder and GoPro footage).

Thanks,

->g.
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Old 15th December 2012, 01:41   #16285  |  Link
dansrfe
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Originally Posted by glc650 View Post
So assuming this is correct, how should I setup CCC (Radeon 6570), madVR, and LAV video?
LAV Video: Untouched
madVR: 0-255
CCC: 0-255
TV: 0-255
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Old 15th December 2012, 01:58   #16286  |  Link
TheShadowRunner
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Something is not right here. If your GPU outputs 16-235, then that practically means that your TV takes the Windows output (desktop, photos, games etc) and stretches it so that black (0) gets moved to 16. So if your GPU really outputs 16-235, your desktop should *not* be clipped. I think what is really happening is that your GPU outputs 0-255, which is actually a good thing. Then if your TV is set to 16-235, and madVR is set to 16-235, too, everything you're describing makes sense.
I'm not certain what's going on tbh. I really do believe the nvidia driver is delivering RGB limited 16-235 to the TV, but that something strange is going on with the clipping (or not) of the desktop.
(I think so especially because in the nvidia panel, for "Digital Color format", changing between RGB <> YCbCR444 makes 0 difference when it comes to color levels)
(Desktop)
If I open paint shop pro and test colors 000000 to 161616, it's perfectly black. I do start to see (extremely faint) grayish around 171717.
(video)
If I play videos at 0-255, I suffer majorly of burnt blacks.
If I force madVR to 16-235, everything is fine, including the calibration files (1-Black Clipping.mkv, 2-APL Clipping.mkv & 3-White Clipping.mkv).

Quote:
The bad thing about the other renderers is that you just can't rely on consistent behaviour. Let me explain how the other renderers work internally: They get NV12 YCbCr 4:2:0 and then use either DXVA or Direct3D to convert that to RGB. This YCbCr 4:2:0 -> RGB conversion is either done to RGB TV or PC levels, depending on the mood of the GPU driver. E.g. with NVidia there's a switch somewhere in the GPU control panel which defines whether this YCbCr -> RGB conversion produces TV or PC levels.
Ah, I understand. I never touched this setting ("With the video player settings" is selected in nVidia panel) and it gives me 16-235 by default, with by exemple, WMP.

Quote:
The MS video renderers don't really care much about PC vs. TV levels. They just rely on DXVA or Direct3D to convert to the "proper" levels. And then if you ask the MS renderers for a "screenshot" (again, the name is somewhat misleading), you'll get the direct output of the DXVA/Direct3D conversion. Which can be either TV or PC levels, depending on various different GPU settings. The end effect is that with the MS video renderers you can't really depend on which levels you'll get your "screenshot" in. On computer A it can be TV levels, on computer B it can be PC levels. All depending on whether the GPU outputs 0-255 or 16-235, and how the GPU control panel options are setup. IMHO this is all "wrong".
Thanks for clearing that up, I now get it. ^^;

Quote:
And guess what happened? Due to my setup, my screenshot was not comparable to the other screenshots on the internet. So I actually thought for a while that the encoding on the German Blu-Ray had a different contrast or whatever. Only a while later I realized that my screenshot was at fault, due to incorrect levels.
You convinced me alright that different color levels for screen grabs depending on players/renderers/setups will trigger errors such as these and is less than ideal indeed.. ^^;

Quote:
So if you e.g. look at your vacation photos, and then look at a madVR screenshot, they both have black at the same level. If your vacation photos look alright on your display, then so will madVR screenshots. If neither of them looks alright on your display (due to how the GPU is setup etc) then it's not the fault of madVR, instead your display setup simply doesn't allow to watch any photos (and thus any madVR screenshots, either) with correct black levels.
..and that's what I experience alright.
But regardless of the issue i'm experiencing, I still disagree on the fact that the best solution to "unify" screenshot color levels is to use PC levels.
After all the sources aren't the same. It makes sense for vacation photos or anything coming out of the PC world to be in PC levels.
But again, in the video world as we both know, 99% is in 16-235 color range by definition so taking "screenshot" using this color range makes more sense to me, if only to allow comparision with "screenshot" from other renderers which seem to be outputting 16-235 by default. XD

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Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
How old is it? Anything recent enough to tell the driver to output 0-255 (default is 16-235 with HDMI unless the GPU is told otherwise) should be able to support it. It has to be outputting 0-255, if levels are being clipped.
It's a Sony 40Z5500 from around 2 years ago, it was the top of the line model back then and does have the XMB menu.

Quote:
Settings > Display > Video Input Settings > RGB Dynamic Range
I have no such setting :/
I only have "Settings" > "Picture" and "Settings" > "Video" (in which i can only alter/force the color format NTSC/PAL, etc..)
I do see a huge difference when I force the PS3 to output RGB full versus RGB limited, if it's any indicator..

Quote:
Are you sure the card is outputting 16-235?
If the card was outputting 16-235, nothing should be clipped, as the card is compressing the levels, and a madVR screenshot would look correct.
If the card was outputting 16-235, and madVR is also outputting video levels, you will have the levels compressed twice so that video was being displayed at 30-218.
Hmm I'm not sure about that, it seems like the nvidia driver has distinct color range behaviors for the desktop and video independently.(?)
I still do think the driver outputs 16-235 and my TV expects 16-235. Everything on the desktop that is really between 0-16 is brought back to black, so of course I suffer black crush for the desktop/pictures etc..
Is this reasoning flawed?
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Last edited by TheShadowRunner; 15th December 2012 at 02:03.
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Old 15th December 2012, 03:42   #16287  |  Link
6233638
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Originally Posted by TheShadowRunner View Post
I still do think the driver outputs 16-235 and my TV expects 16-235. Everything on the desktop that is really between 0-16 is brought back to black, so of course I suffer black crush for the desktop/pictures etc..
Is this reasoning flawed?
If the card was outputting 16-235, then nothing would be getting clipped on your display, because the card compresses anything rendered in 0-255, down to 16-235 specifically to avoid clipping.

If the card is outputting 0-255, and the display is set up only to accept 16-235, then anything outside the 16-235 range will be clipped.

It should like you have inadvertently managed to force 0-255 output when your display doesn't support that, and you should be sending it 16-235.

Even if you don't have a levels option, some displays will clip anything outside 16-235 by default, but it's not a hard clip, and you are able to use the brightness & contrast controls to have them display 0-255. (other displays that have a hard clip to 16-235, will never show anything outside the 16-235 range) Have you tried that?

There may also be a "super white" or some other option to switch your display's levels though.
EDIT: I've just read through your TV's manual and there doesn't appear to be an option for this. Strange, I thought all the XMB-equipped models had it.

The first thing I would try is switching to the "graphics" scene mode.
If that doesn't work, try adjusting brightness/contrast to see if you can make levels outside 16-235 visible.
If that doesn't work, you need to get your GPU outputting 16-235, and not 0-255.

Last edited by 6233638; 15th December 2012 at 03:48.
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Old 15th December 2012, 04:45   #16288  |  Link
glc650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dansrfe View Post
LAV Video: Untouched
madVR: 0-255
CCC: 0-255
TV: 0-255
And if I find out my TV doesn't support 0-255?

Is there some sort of test pattern/pic I can use to verify?
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Old 15th December 2012, 05:02   #16289  |  Link
BetA13
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this is an (black white) 0 - 255 PIC..on my CRT i see all color differnces..on my HD TC however i do not..on my hdtv i use 10 - 255 and its perfect now thanks to madshis custom color range option..

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s297/mikeyurkus/0-255BWDVD.png

16 - 255 gave me overgreyed blacks and artefacts in grey, black portions of teh screen..
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Old 15th December 2012, 05:37   #16290  |  Link
Mangix
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I found an annoying issue with madVR. On several .vob/.mkv files which are 30i, using LAV Video to decode it(software) results in deinterlacing being activated. The same is not true of madVR's built-in decoder. it says deintertlacing off (framerate).
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Old 15th December 2012, 06:28   #16291  |  Link
manma
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I FINALLY figured out why I'm getting dropped frames in madvr. Its leafs. Scenes with lots of green leafs, trees, and that sorta thing make my GPU usage rocket up to 100% and madvr starts dropping frames like crazy. Is there anything that could be done to make madvr handle leafs better? If it matters, I'm using Jinc4, and my GPU Is a GTX460.
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Old 15th December 2012, 07:31   #16292  |  Link
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Originally Posted by manma View Post
Its leafs
It's leaves

I believe Jinc 3 AR is slightly less demanding than Jinc 4 AR so you could try that. If you still have frame drops and you want to keep using Jinc then I'd recommend overclocking your GPU or selecting a less demanding Chroma algorithm otherwise choose Lanczos 3 AR instead.
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Old 15th December 2012, 08:26   #16293  |  Link
corporalgator
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Sounds good to me. You do lose the values < 16 and > 235 this way, but these values are not supposed to be seen on screen, anyway, so it's not a big loss. You could also set your plasma to standard HDMI range and madVR to 16-235. That should be roughly identical in image quality for madVR playback, while preserving < 16 and > 235 data. But if you do that, your desktop and photos etc will have wrong black/white levels.
Thanks, I changed based on your suggestion and now am able to get btb and wtw. I calibrated black so 16 isn't visible and left most of the wtw, since those signals apparently exist on a lot of blu-rays like in chrome reflections.

Another question if you don't mind. My Plasma can do 60 hz and 48. It's a panasonic st30. When I send it 24p, I can switch to 48hz, but it has horrible flicker, so that's a no go.

So, I'm left with 60hz. My question is, I can have madvr switch the refresh rate to 24p, which means the tv does 3:2 pull down. The tv says the option is off, but since there's video playing on the screen, it must be doing 3:2. My other option is to not do refresh rate switching, leaving the video card at 60hz. Does that mean madvr is doing the 3:2 pulldown or is it my vid card? Which is preferable, letting the tv handle it, or sending it already switched?
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Old 15th December 2012, 08:44   #16294  |  Link
manma
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
It's leaves

I believe Jinc 3 AR is slightly less demanding than Jinc 4 AR so you could try that. If you still have frame drops and you want to keep using Jinc then I'd recommend overclocking your GPU or selecting a less demanding Chroma algorithm otherwise choose Lanczos 3 AR instead.
Its funny, I actually wrote leaves, and then replaced each one with leafs before I hit submit for some reason. Weird how spell check likes both spellings.
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Old 15th December 2012, 10:04   #16295  |  Link
alizard
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Madshi, I'm using a AMD 4870 with 12.6 drivers on Windows 8 x64.
Here is the log file: http://www.filedropper.com/madvr-log
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Old 15th December 2012, 11:32   #16296  |  Link
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I'm just curious if anyone else has experienced this bug while using cuvid and madvr on win7

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/983615

thanks
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Old 15th December 2012, 15:53   #16297  |  Link
ThurstonX
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Originally Posted by manma View Post
Its funny, I actually wrote leaves, and then replaced each one with leafs before I hit submit for some reason. Weird how spell check likes both spellings.
Well, to "leaf" is a verb, as in, While I sat in the dentist's office, I leafed through a magazine." So "leafs" is a valid spelling. It's all about context

Yeah, horribly OT, but it seems a slow Sat. But definitely try something less demanding than Jinc4
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Old 15th December 2012, 16:50   #16298  |  Link
khanmein
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guys my bro lappy unable to use GT630M on mpc-hc? how to solve it? using 306.97
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Old 15th December 2012, 16:52   #16299  |  Link
goldie
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madshi, many thanks for your great work, Jinc/AR/DXVA2native/ColorControls! (maybe I'm lag ) Good job, keep going.
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Old 15th December 2012, 16:53   #16300  |  Link
wanezhiling
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guys my bro lappy unable to use GT630M on mpc-hc? how to solve it? using 306.97
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...ostcount=15891
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