Evaluation of HEVC decoders (SW, Hybrid and HW)

[Lumiel]

Originally Posted by NikosD

I don't have a Navi card but I tried to help asking AMD here:
https://github.com/GPUOpen-Libraries...AMF/issues/186
Read the conversation there and take a look at that GitHub forum to see if anything new has appeared.

Maybe @huhn knows more.

Hi NikosD, thanks, I found this topic after I already read that Github issue, and I managed to play some videos with HW decoder like MichailAMD was saying, with Movies & TV. MPC-HC only works with CPU decoding, and I think MPV is working with VAAPI on Linux but drops frames a lot on higher FPS videos (which is OK I guess since Navi shouldn't support more than 8k@24 anyway)

[NikosD]

Originally Posted by Lumiel

Hi NikosD, thanks, I found this topic after I already read that Github issue, and I managed to play some videos with HW decoder like MichailAMD was saying, with Movies & TV. MPC-HC only works with CPU decoding, and I think MPV is working with VAAPI on Linux but drops frames a lot on higher FPS videos (which is OK I guess since Navi shouldn't support more than 8k@24 anyway)

So, it seems that nobody has managed to build a DirectShow decoder and you need a MediaFoundationTransform decoder.
That's bad because only Microsoft apps can provide that.

If I were you, I would try PotPlayer as a final move.

[Lumiel]

Originally Posted by NikosD

So, it seems that nobody has managed to build a DirectShow decoder and you need a MediaFoundationTransform decoder.
That's bad because only Microsoft apps can provide that.

Why is that? I know nothing about encoders but it looks to me MFT is available to everyone? I don't even own an 8k monitor, I'm just trying to figure out if I can help somehow to help other people to make it work with theirs, plus I don't like the amount of misinformation available for Navi, so I'm trying to clear that up, if possible.

LAV filters seems to already use an IMFTransform for other codecs.

[huhn]

the driver is buggy.

it reports that it only supports macroblock mode while you have to support raw bitstream mode so a correctly coded DXVA2 implantation will not use it. the problem is raw bitstream mode works totally fine they just flag it wrong mpc-be internal decoder isn't checking or ignoring it and it works fine.

and even if it works it still shows up as encoding. AMD doesn't care that's what you should take from this.
i can only recommend to avoid AMD they don't deserve any support anymore. i talked directly with AMD about that the answer was "that doesn't sound important".

[Lumiel]

Originally Posted by huhn

the driver is buggy.

it reports that it only supports macroblock mode while you have to support raw bitstream mode so a correctly coded DXVA2 implantation will not use it. the problem is raw bitstream mode works totally fine they just flag it wrong mpc-be internal decoder isn't checking or ignoring it and it works fine.

and even if it works it still shows up as encoding. AMD doesn't care that's what you should take from this.
i can only recommend to avoid AMD they don't deserve any support anymore. i talked directly with AMD about that the answer was "that doesn't sound important".

It might be "buggy" but it works with other software? I can understand if developers don't want to support it but from what I see it works fine. Microsoft is using it just fine. Browsers are using it but not in an optimal way. What if it shows as encoding? It shows encoding on my machine too but that's just a sensor. Recording with OBS works fine as well with AMF.

We can argue all you want but if you say AMD doesn't care I can also say that developers don't seem to care. I'm here to discuss it and find solutions though, not start a flame war.

[NikosD]

Originally Posted by Lumiel

It might be "buggy" but it works with other software?

Could you test MPC-BE and PotPlayer and report here about your findings ?

[clsid]

Try if it works with this LAV build:
vp9_dxva_test

[Lumiel]

Originally Posted by clsid

Try if it works with this LAV build:
vp9_dxva_test

Thanks, unfortunately it doesn't. I can see more options now I believe, but still only copy-back detects my Navi card. D3D11 in Automatic still uses CPU. Native can't detect the hardware. edit: I might be reading the menus wrong, in any case none of the options is using the GPU hardware decoding capability.

Originally Posted by NikosD

Could you test MPC-BE and PotPlayer and report here about your findings ?

I will test it now.

[Lumiel]

MPC-BE works fine, it's using 100% GPU, however it's very heavy for my PC. Almost everything else become unresponsive. This is probably because I'm testing a 60 FPS video while Navi supports 8k@24 fps. I will now test PotPlayer and edit the same post so I don't spam.

edit: PotPlayer works fine as well, a little less heavy than MPC-BE. Some stats from Potplayer. So at least I know there are some players that support my GPU thanks NikosD

p.s the smoothest experience is 100% still with Movies & TV though, I can also see about 3% CPU usage along with 100% GPU usage. That's as far my knowledge goes on the issue

[huhn]

Originally Posted by Lumiel

We can argue all you want but if you say AMD doesn't care I can also say that developers don't seem to care. I'm here to discuss it and find solutions though, not start a flame war.

if you have to break the spec to make it works it's clearly an issue with AMD. this all has been tested month ago and reported to AMD and there answer was pretty much we don't care. at what point can i say they don't care?

nev was not willing to add this yet.
and why does it work with other software like video app it doesn't use DXVA2.

you can read more here:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...36#post1899136

[Lumiel]

Originally Posted by huhn

if you have to break the spec to make it works it's clearly an issue with AMD. this all has been tested month ago and reported to AMD and there answer was pretty much we don't care. at what point can i say they don't care?

nev was not willing to add this yet.
and why does it work with other software like video app it doesn't use DXVA2.

you can read more here:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...36#post1899136

Thanks for the link, that's why I came here to learn more about the issue. As I said I'm OK with devs not wanting to add exemptions etc, and I'm happy at least I have an alternative to use my card now. Maybe it will be fixed by AMD at some point.

[NikosD]

Originally Posted by Lumiel

p.s the smoothest experience is 100% still with Movies & TV though, I can also see about 3% CPU usage along with 100% GPU usage. That's as far my knowledge goes on the issue

You can reach AMD writing under my topic at GitHub to MichaelAMD and tell them that according to the developers the

"DXVA VP9 specification states that "ConfigBitstreamRaw" should always be 1 for VP8/9"

and their driver doesn't comply.

Now, using your GPU at 100% can make your GUI - Windows - feel sluggish.

I would like you to open Task Manager of Windows 10 and see the GPU video decoder usage during VP9 8K playback with both DS Players (PotPlayer and MPC-BE) and the MFT Player (Movies & TV)

In pure DXVA2 native mode or D3D11 native mode, the GPU usage should be real low and the HW video decoder usage should be close to 100% while CPU should be low too.

Can you test DXVA Checker in benchmark mode in pure hardware decoding mode renderless (not playback) using MPC-BE filters ? (you have to install them separately as DS filters)

Also, I would like you to post some VP9 4K results regarding video performance (FPS, GPU usage) with both DS and MFT decoders.

[Lumiel]

Originally Posted by NikosD

I would like you to open Task Manager of Windows 10 and see the GPU video decoder usage during VP9 8K playback with both DS Players (PotPlayer and MPC-BE) and the MFT Player (Movies & TV)

In pure DXVA2 native mode or D3D11 native mode, the GPU usage should be real low and the HW video decoder usage should be close to 100% while CPU should be low too.

Sorry for confusing you, by GPU usage I meant the HW video decoder.

MPC-BE: HW decoder 100% - GPU D3D Usage 19% - GPU memory controller 4% - GPU memory usage 1500MB - CPU 0%
PotPlayer: HW decoder 100% - GPU D3D Usage 19% - GPU memory controller 5% - GPU memory usage 1600MB - CPU 0.8%
Movies & TV: HW decoder 100% - GPU D3D Usage 13% - GPU memory controller 25% - GPU memory usage 1992 MB - CPU 1.2%

Can you test DXVA Checker in benchmark mode in pure hardware decoding mode renderless (not playback) using MPC-BE filters ? (you have to install them separately as DS filters)

Also, I would like you to post some VP9 4K results regarding video performance (FPS, GPU usage) with both DS and MFT decoders.

I'm not sure how to do all that... but I can give it a try.

[NikosD]

Originally Posted by Lumiel

Sorry for confusing you, by GPU usage I meant the HW video decoder.

Thanks for the results.
Then you are pushing your HW decoder to its limit.

But, Windows GUI has nothing to do with that and everything should be normal with such low GPU and CPU usage.

[Lumiel]

So I've downloaded a 4K video but DXVA checker only shows CPU support. I don't think I can force it somehow to work with a Navi GPU.

[huhn]

windwos media foundation does this:
youtube UHD 60 HDR.
VP9 profile2 103 122 137 9% CPU 100 % video encode engine.

edit: 8k runs at about 40 FPS i didn't finish the run that would take a long time. about the same CPU usages more then 1 thread.

the very high CPU usages is very odd:
https://abload.de/img/veryhighcpuusageerkpg.png

these test are done without loading the radeon control panel or what it'S name is now to avoid issues.

But, Windows GUI has nothing to do with that and everything should be normal with such low GPU and CPU usage.

this just happens from time to time up to this day it is recommended to disable hardware acceleration in browser and programs like discord. it was much worse in the past.

[aufkrawall]

I suggest some Navi user to report the bug demonstrated with ffplay to ffmpeg. If it gets closed because the workaround is rejected, one could still point that to AMD.
Not that any hopes would be justified, but...

[DMU]

Originally Posted by Lumiel

Maybe it will be fixed by AMD at some point.

I do not advise you to hope so. They will not do anything themselves until you force them. AMD has some kind of problem with flags in the software. An example was the missing BT.2020 flag in their private API - AGS, which did not allow HDR content to be correctly played using madVR. I spent a lot of time to sort out the problem and describe it to them. It took even more time to explain this to them. And if not for the community (thanks to mclingo, aka stoolzo), AMD owners still watched HDR in the BT.709 color space. If you decide to write to them, be sure to let them know what official standards they violate.

[clsid]

Originally Posted by clsid

Try if it works with this LAV build:
vp9_dxva_test

Can anyone else test this as well? It was patched to allow ConfigBitstreamRaw=0 for VP9, so I was hoping it would work.

A good additional place to submit bug reports is in the driver feedback threads on Reddit. A few guys from AMD are active there.

[huhn]

sorry doesn't work for me too.