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Old 12th September 2018, 21:16   #6361  |  Link
Forteen88
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Originally Posted by katzenjoghurt View Post
My settings were: --crf 23 --tune grain --profile main12 --output-depth 12 --rskip --qcomp 0.8 --no-open-gop --no-deblock --no-strong-intra-smoothing
Try setting --psy-rdoq 0.0 (default for --tune grain is --psy-rdoq 10.0) or set it to around 2.0.
I never liked that corresponding PSY-setting in x264 either, it was too strong.
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Old 12th September 2018, 22:43   #6362  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Forteen88 View Post
Try setting --psy-rdoq 0.0 (default for --tune grain is --psy-rdoq 10.0) or set it to around 2.0.
I never liked that corresponding PSY-setting in x264 either, it was too strong.
huh! I set --psy-rdoq 0 and got the exact same output (same pic and bytesize).
I then checked with mediainfo and all my test videos so far were already encoded with --psy-rdoq 0.

Last edited by katzenjoghurt; 12th September 2018 at 22:48.
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Old 12th September 2018, 22:48   #6363  |  Link
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Originally Posted by excellentswordfight View Post
Tune grain usually gives pretty bad results, I found it to be usefull in very few instances.

I would start over with main10, keep --no-strong-intra-smoothing and --no-sao, try a slower preset and a lower CRF value. If that doesnt give you good results start playing with AQ and qcomp
I will try tomorrow or during the weekend. As with any proposal that seems to be a bit more time consuming.

I'm quite happy with Tune Grain... I use it for every movie.
E.g. every Star Wars movie came out well with it so far... only Star Wars III seems like it was specifically made to make x265 look bad - pick your poison:
a) no grain b) 15k+ bitrate c) wobbling faces with artefacts

Last edited by katzenjoghurt; 12th September 2018 at 22:58.
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Old 13th September 2018, 07:51   #6364  |  Link
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Originally Posted by katzenjoghurt View Post
huh! I set --psy-rdoq 0 and got the exact same output (same pic and bytesize).
I then checked with mediainfo and all my test videos so far were already encoded with --psy-rdoq 0.
Oh, weird, I got that info about --tune grain from,
https://x265.readthedocs.io/en/default/presets.html
That webpage says that --tune grain sets --psy-rdoq 10.0

Did you set --psy-rdoq 0 AFTER setting --tune grain? I think it overwrites the --psy-rdoq that --tune grain sets then.

Last edited by Forteen88; 13th September 2018 at 07:54.
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Old 13th September 2018, 08:55   #6365  |  Link
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He was most likely using a non-slow preset.
--psy-rdoq 10.0 is only set starting at --preset slow and slower.

This is why --tune grain actually looks quite good on medium or fast preset.

@katzenjoghurt:
Simply try --preset slow --profile main10 --output-depth 10 --no-sao at a CRF between 17 and 20.
Maybe that helps with bitrate and quality.
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Old 13th September 2018, 10:34   #6366  |  Link
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Originally Posted by katzenjoghurt View Post
My settings were: ... --no-deblock
That'll create blocks on big screens. I would not remove deblock, most people use minimum --deblock -3:-3
I've never seen an encode (including x264-encodes) with lower --deblock than --deblock -3:-3
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Old 13th September 2018, 22:56   #6367  |  Link
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Hi guys,

just wanted to thank you for your support.
Unfortunately I'm too dead tired from work to do some test encodings today.
But thanks! Much appreciated.
Will try out some of your proposals during the weekend and let you know what worked out.
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Old 14th September 2018, 00:18   #6368  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Forteen88 View Post
That'll create blocks on big screens. I would not remove deblock, most people use minimum --deblock -3:-3
I've never seen an encode (including x264-encodes) with lower --deblock than --deblock -3:-3
why? i am using --no-deblock with CRF ano NO BLOCKING... depends on bitrate and with CRF, no blocking should be presented.
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Old 14th September 2018, 07:14   #6369  |  Link
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why? i am using --no-deblock with CRF ano NO BLOCKING... depends on bitrate and with CRF, no blocking should be presented.
Yeah, that's true to a point (until the screen is VERY big) What is the inch of the big screen you're using for playing such encodes?
If you're setting --no-deblock on UHD-encodes, it's obviously also less of a difference compared to encodes at lower resolutions.

Last edited by Forteen88; 14th September 2018 at 07:17.
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Old 14th September 2018, 09:11   #6370  |  Link
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(C)TU size and detail retention

In theory, is it better to use smaller (C)TU sizes to retain detail? I've been thinking about the rdpenalty parameter - earlier I've used --ctu 32 --max-tu-size 16 --tu-inter-depth 4 --tu-intra-depth 4 --limit-tu 3, but I've wondered if --max-tu-size 32 --rdpenalty 1 would allow some more flexibility for the encoder without sacrificing detail.
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Old 15th September 2018, 12:34   #6371  |  Link
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Yeah, that's true to a point (until the screen is VERY big) What is the inch of the big screen you're using for playing such encodes?
If you're setting --no-deblock on UHD-encodes, it's obviously also less of a difference compared to encodes at lower resolutions.
Deblocking also improves quality by making prediction more efficient. Even if you can't see a sharp block boundary on a given screen, it being there makes that area a poor reference for a predicted block. Using deblocking can reduce residual substantially, and thus lower QPs overall.
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Old 15th September 2018, 21:44   #6372  |  Link
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x265.exe 2.8+68-fa57fa584898

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...59#post2529259
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Old 16th September 2018, 21:09   #6373  |  Link
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Originally Posted by jd17 View Post
@katzenjoghurt:
Simply try --preset slow --profile main10 --output-depth 10 --no-sao at a CRF between 17 and 20.
Maybe that helps with bitrate and quality.
The quality is nice at crf 17 slow.
I tried a bigger test encode with crf 18 medium but looks like I'll get close to a 10mbit bitrate then.
But lowering the bitrate further will kill the grain on the other hand.
*sigh*

At least I can confirm that the artifacts indeed seem to be caused by tune grain. As soon as I enable it artifacts start showing up at bitrates <10mbit.


This movie is really weird. Looking at it my gut feeling is that it should be encodable with 5,000kbit/s.
But it demands far more... more than some 60's movie with grain everywhere.

Last edited by katzenjoghurt; 16th September 2018 at 23:40.
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Old 22nd September 2018, 13:48   #6374  |  Link
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x265 v2.8+70-33a782b23f2c (32 & 64-bit 8/10/12bit Multilib Windows Binaries)

Code:
https://bitbucket.org/multicoreware/x265/commits/branch/default
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Old 24th September 2018, 13:20   #6375  |  Link
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Is someone able to explain what --hdr-opt does please?

I've started to try a couple of hdr encodes and have always used --cbqpoffs -2 and --crqpoffs -2 in my standard x265 settings. But wondered if setting --hdr-opt together with those might cause issues as they all seem to be chroma/luma QP optimizations...

Thanks.
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Old 25th September 2018, 17:08   #6376  |  Link
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Is someone able to explain what --hdr-opt does please?

I've started to try a couple of hdr encodes and have always used --cbqpoffs -2 and --crqpoffs -2 in my standard x265 settings. But wondered if setting --hdr-opt together with those might cause issues as they all seem to be chroma/luma QP optimizations...

Thanks.
https://x265.readthedocs.io/en/defau...option-hdr-opt
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Old 26th September 2018, 00:05   #6377  |  Link
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Originally Posted by RainyDog View Post
Is someone able to explain what --hdr-opt does please?

I've started to try a couple of hdr encodes and have always used --cbqpoffs -2 and --crqpoffs -2 in my standard x265 settings. But wondered if setting --hdr-opt together with those might cause issues as they all seem to be chroma/luma QP optimizations...

Thanks.
Indeed, --hdr-opt does adjust QP in a way that probably will allow you to turn off or at least lower the c?cpoffs options. I've been surprised how much a little chroma offset can increase bitrate with HDR content, so using --hdr-opt instead improves overall quality/efficiency.
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Old 26th September 2018, 10:00   #6378  |  Link
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Originally Posted by tuanden0 View Post
Well, yes... That's why I asked what it actually does As that doesn't really explain.

Quote:
--hdr-opt, --no-hdr-opt

Add luma and chroma offsets for HDR/WCG content. Input video should be 10 bit 4:2:0. Applicable for HDR content. It is recommended that AQ-mode be enabled along with this feature. Default disabled.
By 'add' luma and chroma offsets, is it also tweaking cbqpoffs and crqpoffs and, if so, how?
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Old 26th September 2018, 10:11   #6379  |  Link
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May I ask which among the switches will enable faster encoding in 2 pass (default medium) with minimal or no degradation in picture quality? So far I have identified the ff:

1. --no slow first pass
2. --multi-pass-opt-analysis
3. --multi-pass-opt-distortion

I might be missing couple more things?
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Old 26th September 2018, 15:13   #6380  |  Link
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There're two elephants in the room. Your frame-crushing machine or your expectation about the speed of x265 at medium preset or both of them.
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