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Old 7th February 2019, 12:50   #54601  |  Link
sneaker_ger
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Originally Posted by Grimsdyke View Post
Is the dithering in LAV video decoder the same process as in MadVR ? So could it be set to 'none' there ? Thx
LAV only dithers when it has to convert the output format. If you use madvr and don't deactivate any of the default output formats in LAV Video this basically never happens. Like nevcairiel said: never turn off dithering in madvr. It's necessary as madvr does all kinds of processing (like chroma upscaling) in high bitdepth.
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Old 7th February 2019, 22:39   #54602  |  Link
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@Manni

Would you please check if 418.81 passthrough still sends bogus metadata?

Edit: You have already answered that in another thread, Thanks!
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Old 7th February 2019, 23:37   #54603  |  Link
70MM
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Originally Posted by sneaker_ger View Post
LAV only dithers when it has to convert the output format. If you use madvr and don't deactivate any of the default output formats in LAV Video this basically never happens. Like nevcairiel said: never turn off dithering in madvr. It's necessary as madvr does all kinds of processing (like chroma upscaling) in high bitdepth.
Sorry guys I dont understand this staement. I use madvr with JRiver. I use dithering in madvr, have done for years. But Ive never gone into Lav Filters and and deactivated any default output formats as I wouldnt even know how to get in there or even do anything.... Am I doing something wrong here, is my dithering in madvr actually working or not?
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Old 7th February 2019, 23:40   #54604  |  Link
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You are doing everything correctly.
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Old 7th February 2019, 23:46   #54605  |  Link
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Most people should probably never touch any of the dithering settings, and they would get an optimal experience that way even.
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Old 8th February 2019, 01:23   #54606  |  Link
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Most people should probably never touch any of the dithering settings, and they would get an optimal experience that way even.
Just chking, the RGB output lvl in _Lav Filter_ should be sett to 255 right ?

I've always wondered, because it always looks the same on output, so I just assumed madvr was doing everything ?.
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Old 8th February 2019, 01:59   #54607  |  Link
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it needs very specific to ever do anything and that'S not going to happen with madVR.

it's called RGB output levels (for YUV-> RGB conversation)
so where are you outputting YUV as RGB?
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Old 8th February 2019, 02:51   #54608  |  Link
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it needs very specific to ever do anything and that'S not going to happen with madVR.

it's called RGB output levels (for YUV-> RGB conversation)
so where are you outputting YUV as RGB?
I assumed the lav feeds into madvr, so then madvr takes that and does magic ?
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Old 8th February 2019, 04:30   #54609  |  Link
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I have the new JVC NX9 projector and want to try using the pixel shader tone mapping in madvr rather than the auto tone mapping in my NX9. However since Im new to this and dont understand, what "target peak nits" setting should I use on madvr for my NX9 projector? Thank you in advance...
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Old 8th February 2019, 05:54   #54610  |  Link
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Looks like that projector is somewhere around 185 nits max. I could be off so hopefully someone else chimes in that knows what they're talking about (hint not me! LOL)
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Old 8th February 2019, 06:00   #54611  |  Link
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Looks like that projector is somewhere around 185 nits max. I could be off so hopefully someone else chimes in that knows what they're talking about (hint not me! LOL)
Thank you very much as I know nothing about setting up HDR with my JVC NX9 projector. I think the default in madvr is 400 nits, whats different between it and your 185 nits please?

I feel that the proj isnt quite bright enough on their auto tone mapping as they have a slider for different size screens and gain, however they give no advice where to place the slider, its defaulted to a 120" screen with a gain of 1.

I want to test the madvr auto dynamic tone mapping to see it its better than the one in JVC. madshi said its very easy to setup but I just dont understand about the nits and what number to use for that setting..

Even a Google doesnt help my in this case....
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Old 8th February 2019, 06:08   #54612  |  Link
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Try 175 to start (below your max nits or what I believe is your max nits anyway) and see what it looks like. You can always adjust it until it looks the way you want brightness wise. It might take some playing around to get it set up just the way you want, but, start there and see what happens. If it's too dark, try lowering the target nit until it looks right.
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Old 8th February 2019, 06:41   #54613  |  Link
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Try 175 to start (below your max nits or what I believe is your max nits anyway) and see what it looks like. You can always adjust it until it looks the way you want brightness wise. It might take some playing around to get it set up just the way you want, but, start there and see what happens. If it's too dark, try lowering the target nit until it looks right.
Great thank you so much for your help, so a lower number than 175 will be brighter correct. If you make it too bright do you loose contrast or blacks?
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Old 8th February 2019, 07:59   #54614  |  Link
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Anyone created a HDR test file to assist with setting target nits? Ideally madVR could have something built in?
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Old 8th February 2019, 11:01   #54615  |  Link
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Anyone created a HDR test file to assist with setting target nits? Ideally madVR could have something built in?
Is there such a thing that would be common to all ?, I have stopped reading the Projector thread as it seems to have taken on a life of its own with various apps needed or used, and having to check all your files as well. It does not help that my 1050 goes on fire even at the most basic of settings as well.

I have only been messing with HDR for about a month now, and the more I read, the more I do not understand what to do with it.

It seems there is no real calibration settings for HDR and you for the most part have to let your TV do its thing, I also have no idea how people know what is good or bad. Initially I was impressed with HDR but I don't have a dark picture that everyone speaks about, and I don't really want a dark picture either.
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Old 8th February 2019, 13:48   #54616  |  Link
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Anyone created a HDR test file to assist with setting target nits? Ideally madVR could have something built in?
What do you mean exactly? There's an HDR testpattern included in the madvr zip package or the HDR-10 calibration and test patterns set.

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I also have no idea how people know what is good or bad.
Probably they don't, but they just like the result.
Not to mention that every manufacturer can literally do whatever they want with HDR10, there's no strict standard for it.

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Initially I was impressed with HDR but I don't have a dark picture that everyone speaks about, and I don't really want a dark picture either.
Me neither. Hence I have set target nits to 120 in latest madvr beta with using gamma 2.4 3dlut on gamma 2.4 screen (although I just learned that's not the desired setup) and I don't have to adjust anything else and the picture is amazing (at least for me)
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Old 8th February 2019, 14:49   #54617  |  Link
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Great thank you so much for your help, so a lower number than 175 will be brighter correct. If you make it too bright do you loose contrast or blacks?
the lower the max nit the lower the image range but that doesn't affect your devices CR which stays the same.

so it kind of lowers "CR" and there is no way around that.

there is a diffuse level which is far away from the black so they should be untouched for the most part.
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Old 8th February 2019, 14:54   #54618  |  Link
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Thank you very much as I know nothing about setting up HDR with my JVC NX9 projector. I think the default in madvr is 400 nits, whats different between it and your 185 nits please?

I feel that the proj isnt quite bright enough on their auto tone mapping as they have a slider for different size screens and gain, however they give no advice where to place the slider, its defaulted to a 120" screen with a gain of 1.

I want to test the madvr auto dynamic tone mapping to see it its better than the one in JVC. madshi said its very easy to setup but I just dont understand about the nits and what number to use for that setting..

Even a Google doesnt help my in this case....
I would start at 200 nits and raise it until the image has sufficient contrast. Increasing the target nits will make the image darker but with greater high dynamic range and contrast. Lowering this value will make the image brighter at the expense of raising black a bit and clipping highlight detail. The lower the number, the greater the tone mapping compression, but the brighter the image.

It would also help to use the current test build found in Soulnight's thread: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-ho...rget-nits.html.

There is actually a new test build available if you browse to Page 24, Post #712 that hasn't yet been added to the first post.

To use the test build, extract the zip file into the madVR installation folder overwriting existing files. madVR must be closed when you do this.

I prefer "highlight recovery strength" set to "medium," but higher values can also work. Make sure you uncheck all of the checkboxes related to tone mapping under "trade quality for performance." The other options have been simplified in this build.

If you get that far and want to go further, you can try pre-measuring your files with madMeasureHDR as explained here:

https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php...406#pid2750406

Once your files are measured, you can experiment with some of the other tools mentioned there, including Soulnight's dynamic target nits tool.
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Old 8th February 2019, 15:08   #54619  |  Link
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Anyone created a HDR test file to assist with setting target nits? Ideally madVR could have something built in?
A test file might be possible, but the result seems to vary per movie, possibly to due to other factors such as the amount of pixels near black. After tone mapping, movies with a low black floor can get quite dark because tone mapping will make many of the lower values even darker after tone mapping. This mostly occurs when raising the target nits above the actual brightness of your display by a large amount. The AvgFALL (Frame Average Light Level) can help in judging the overall brightness of the movie, but even it seems to fail sometimes in predicting a movie that is too dark after tone mapping.

I have been using HDR profile rules very similar to Manni's to match the target nits to the movie's measured AvgFMLL (Average Frame Maximum Light Level):

if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL < 1) "General HDR" else
if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL <= 100) "200 nits" else
if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL <= 160) "225 nits" else
if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL <= 190) "250 nits" else
if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL <= 225) "275 nits" else
if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL <= 250) "300 nits" else
if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL <= 270) "325 nits" else
if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL <= 300) "350 nits" else
if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL <= 380) "375 nits" else
if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL <= 550) "400 nits" else
if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL <= 700) "425 nits" else
if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL > 700) "480 nits"

You have to measure your files for profile rules like these to work. This approach focuses more on preserving the dynamic range of the source, but it also gets the brightness/contrast right much of the time. I haven't tried to optimize them any further, only simplify them, but it does a decent job of selecting a curve most of the time. Manni's original rules also incorporate the AvgFALL and I removed that bit.

This all could become a moot point if Soulnight's approach to changing the target nits dynamically during the movie ever works smoothly.

Last edited by Warner306; 8th February 2019 at 18:27.
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Old 8th February 2019, 15:13   #54620  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Anyone created a HDR test file to assist with setting target nits? Ideally madVR could have something built in?
If you are testing with the latest builds and still find the image is too dark, trying changing the output gamma in madVR. Even those with a display calibrated to 2.20 can sometimes get a better result by setting madVR to 2.40.
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