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Old 18th January 2017, 08:26   #41  |  Link
Katie Boundary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manono View Post
Unless you upload an untouched sample showing the problem you claim exists
I DID! It's post #20!!
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Old 18th January 2017, 19:26   #42  |  Link
manono
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie Boundary View Post
I DID! It's post #20!!
So you did, and I apologize. However, one screwy section of a badly created opening sequence isn't fodder for this forum, I don't think. Fix it if it bothers you. Edit frames, use frame interpolation, delete the screwy frames or replace them with identical copies, whatever. That sample isn't typical of the entire episode, I don't think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie Boundary View Post
Okay but that has nothing to do with this thread, which is about incorrect field orders.
You entitled this thread 'Extremely Weird Field Orders' and said DGIndex didn't spot the illegal field order transitions when there are no odd field order changes to begin with. Sharc showed that conclusively earlier. The thread could have ended at that point, a few posts after you produced a sample. Yes, there's some things screwy about the sample, but it has nothing to do with field order changes. And it's not unusual for opening credits to be different from the main body of a episode and sometimes so much different as to mess up trying to do the entire episode the same way. It can be maddening and sometimes compromises have to be made.

Anyway, thanks for pointing out a sample had already been submitted. I had only been following the thread periodically.
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Old 18th January 2017, 21:45   #43  |  Link
Katie Boundary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manono View Post
So you did, and I apologize. However, one screwy section of a badly created opening sequence
But it's NOT just that one screwy section. I gave three other examples.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manono View Post
You entitled this thread 'Extremely Weird Field Orders' and said DGIndex didn't spot the illegal field order transitions when there are no odd field order changes to begin with. Sharc showed that conclusively earlier. The thread could have ended at that point, a few posts after you produced a sample. Yes, there's some things screwy about the sample, but it has nothing to do with field order changes.
There ARE field order changes in Andromeda. They're just not illegal ones. It remains to be seen whether they are or aren't related to the "retrograde field behavior" in that episode. They're definitely not related to similar behavior in completely different examples.

I'll attach some Robocop in case anyone cares.


EDIT: Here, the first chapter of the first Prime Directives movie, in raw VOB form. I didn't even bother renaming it, much less do whatever nefarious things John thinks I did to the Andromeda clip: https://www.sendspace.com/file/0wyf40
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Last edited by Katie Boundary; 18th January 2017 at 21:48.
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Old 18th January 2017, 23:18   #44  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie Boundary View Post
EDIT: Here, the first chapter of the first Prime Directives movie, in raw VOB form. I didn't even bother renaming it, much less do whatever nefarious things John thinks I did to the Andromeda clip: https://www.sendspace.com/file/0wyf40
I added the emphasis to the quote.

To the forum admin: please lock this thread. I really did try to help this person and, except for one sentence where I surmised that the clip that was finally presented might not be directly from the DVD, I didn't do anything else to antagonize this person. Please note that almost EVERYONE who has tried to help has gotten sucked into this person's negativity.

All of his threads are the same way.

Because of him, I feel less inclined to spend my time helping other people. I've been on this forum for fifteen years, and have, I think, generally been helpful, so I do not appreciate -- at all -- this person's treatment of people who try to help him and also do not appreciate the rancor that he manages to stir up in every single thread he starts.
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Old 18th January 2017, 23:34   #45  |  Link
Katie Boundary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videoh View Post
That last sample is just mixed hard and soft 3:2 pulldown. You have to make your project with honor pulldown flags and then apply an inverse telecine operation, for example with Telecide/Decimate or TFM/TDecimate, like this:

loadplugin("D:\Don\Programming\C++\Avisynth Filters\Decomb\Release\decomb.dll")
loadplugin("D:\Don\Programming\C++\DGDecNV\DGDecodeNV\x32\Release\dgdecodenv.dll")

dgsource("C:\Users\Don\Downloads\PD01ch01_1.dgi")
telecide()
decimate()
Did no one ever tell you that it's a bad idea to apply IVTC to natively 60hz material?

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmeyer View Post
except for one sentence where I surmised that the clip that was finally presented might not be directly from the DVD, I didn't do anything else to antagonize this person.
You also assume that I'm male, but I let that slide because I'm not willing to post my tits just to prove you wrong.

Also, you're one of several people on this forum who have a habit of ruining threads by making them about me rather than about video.
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Old 18th January 2017, 23:36   #46  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videoh View Post
Hey John, you being disinclined to help doesn't mean the thread must be closed. You can look at some other threads for amusement if this one offends you.
Fair enough. Good point. I usually ignore threads started by people like this. However, his problem happens to be something that I've worked with a lot and, with a proper clip that actually shows movement, I'm pretty certain I can fix it almost perfectly.

It probably seems like my last post was a little bit of an over-reaction, but the reaction was cumulative, and started with his post in this thread a few days ago where he takes four different shots at me:

http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...4&postcount=26

This guy reminds me of a friend's cat who always comes over purring, and when you pet him he seems to initially like it. But then, without warning, he turns on you and bites and scratches. You think I'm ever going to pet that cat again?

[edit]I just saw Katie's last post. Yes, I did assume the person is a male. Her charming rejoinder has set me straight on that subject.

Last edited by johnmeyer; 18th January 2017 at 23:39. Reason: incorporate response to comment posted while I was composing original response
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Old 18th January 2017, 23:42   #47  |  Link
Katie Boundary
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John, either say something about field orders or STFU. If you want to bitch about me and use the wrong pronouns while doing it, start a separate thread in the off-topic section.

Monono, if you could split off all of John's irrelevant personal nonsense into a separate thread and move that thread to the off-topic section, that would be great. Thanks.
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Old 18th January 2017, 23:49   #48  |  Link
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You're very rude, Katie, so I'm not going to help you anymore. Good luck with your projects and trolling.

John, sorry for being so slow on the uptake. Live and learn.
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Old 18th January 2017, 23:54   #49  |  Link
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You know what's actually rude? Deliberately derailing threads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manono View Post
Fix it if it bothers you. Edit frames, use frame interpolation, delete the screwy frames or replace them with identical copies, whatever.
I'd settle for an explanation of why anyone in their right mind would produce a video stream like this to begin with. As for fixing the Andromeda episode, I switched from Premiere to AVIsynth when I realized that fixing chroma ghosting was easier in AVIsynth, and now my script looks like the tenth circle of tedious autistic hell:

Code:
mpeg2source("212.d2v")

A=Tfm(field=1,pp=0,micmatching=0)
B=Tfm(field=0,pp=0,micmatching=0)
C=Interleave(A,B)
D=Tdeint(mode=1,full=false)


trim(D,0,685)
+trim(C,686,1010)
+mergechroma(D.trim(1011,1011),C.trim(1010,1010))
+mergechroma(D.trim(1012,1012),C.trim(1013,1013))
+trim(C,1013,1021)
+trim(D,1022,1516)
+mergechroma(D.trim(1517,1517),D.trim(1516,1516))
+mergechroma(D.trim(1518,1518),D.trim(1520,1520))
+trim(D,1520,1520)
+trim(D,1519,1519)
+trim(C,1521,1528)
+trim(D,1530,1530)
+trim(D,1529,1529)
+trim(D,1532,1532)
+trim(D,1531,1531)
+trim(D,1533,1533)
+trim(C,1534,1540)
+trim(D,1542,1542)
+trim(D,1541,1541)
+trim(D,1543,1545)
+trim(C,1546,1553)
+trim(D,1554,1556)
+trim(C,1557,1557)
+trim(D,1557,1557)
+trim(C,1559,1565)
+trim(D,1566,1566)
+trim(C,1567,1567)
+trim(D,1567,1567)
+trim(D,1570,1570)
+trim(D,1569,1569)
+trim(C,1571,1578)
+trim(D,1580,1580)
+trim(D,1579,1579)
+trim(D,1582,1582)
+trim(C,1582,1582)
+trim(D,1581,1581)
+trim(C,1584,1590)
+trim(D,1592,1592)
+trim(C,1592,1592)
+trim(D,1593,1593)
+trim(D,1594,1595)
+trim(C,1596,1603)
+trim(D,1604,1605)
+trim(D,1606,1606)
+trim(C,1607,1607)
+trim(D,1607,1607)
+trim(C,1609,1615)
+trim(D,1616,1616)
+trim(C,1617,1617)
+trim(D,1617,1617)
+trim(D,1620,1620)
+trim(D,1619,1619)
+trim(C,1621,1628)
+trim(D,1630,1630)
+trim(D,1629,1629)
+trim(D,1632,1632)
+trim(c,1632,1632)
+trim(D,1633,1633)
+trim(C,1634,1640)
+trim(D,1642,1642)
+trim(C,1642,1642)
+trim(D,1643,1645)
+trim(C,1646,1653)
+trim(D,1654,1656)
+trim(C,1657,1657)
+trim(D,1657,1657)
+trim(C,1659,1665)
+trim(D,1666,1666)
+trim(C,1667,1667)
+trim(D,1667,1667)
+trim(D,1670,1670)
+trim(D,1669,1669)
+trim(C,1671,1678)
+trim(D,1680,1680)
+trim(D,1679,1679)
+trim(D,1682,1682)
+trim(C,1682,1682)
+trim(D,1683,1683)
+trim(C,1684,1690)
+trim(D,1692,1692)
+trim(C,1692,1692)
+trim(D,1693,1695)
+trim(C,1696,1703)
+trim(D,1704,1706)
+trim(C,1707,1707)
+trim(D,1707,1707)
+trim(C,1709,1715)
+trim(D,1716,1716)
+trim(C,1717,1717)
+trim(D,1717,1717)
+trim(D,1720,1720)
+trim(D,1719,1719)
+trim(C,1721,1728)
+trim(D,1730,1730)
+trim(D,1729,1729)
+trim(D,1732,1732)
+trim(C,1732,1732)
+trim(D,1733,1733)
+trim(C,1734,1740)
+trim(D,1742,1742)
+trim(C,1742,1742)
+trim(D,1743,1745)
+trim(C,1746,1753)
+trim(D,1754,1756)
+trim(C,1757,1757)
+trim(D,1757,1757)
+trim(C,1759,1765)
+trim(D,1766,1766)
+trim(D,1768,1768)
+trim(D,1767,1767)
+trim(D,1770,1770)
+trim(D,1769,1769)
+trim(C,1771,1778)
+trim(D,1780,1780)
+trim(D,1779,1779)
+trim(D,1782,1782)
+trim(C,1782,1782)
+trim(D,1783,1783)
+trim(C,1784,1790)
+trim(D,1792,1792)
+trim(C,1792,1792)
+trim(D,1793,1795)
+trim(C,1796,1803)
+trim(D,1804,1806)
+trim(C,1807,1807)
+trim(D,1807,1807)
+trim(C,1809,1815)
+trim(D,1816,1816)
+trim(C,1817,1817)
+trim(D,1817,1817)
+trim(D,1820,1820)
+trim(D,1819,1819)
+trim(C,1821,1828)
+trim(D,1830,1830)
+trim(D,1829,1829)
+trim(D,1832,1832)
+trim(C,1832,1832)
+trim(D,1833,1833)
+trim(C,1834,1840)
+trim(D,1842,1842)
+trim(C,1842,1842)
+trim(D,1843,1845)
+trim(C,1846,1853)
+trim(D,1854,1856)
+trim(C,1857,1857)
+trim(D,1857,1857)
+trim(C,1859,2211)
This is obviously not an approach that I intent to use every time I come across this sort of material.
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Last edited by Katie Boundary; 19th January 2017 at 00:21.
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Old 20th January 2017, 07:53   #50  |  Link
TheFluff
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if you want to fix individual frames, yatta is right there, you know (edit: the only reasonable guide to it that has ever been written - it's hardly user-friendly)

like, you can replace individual frames with like three keystrokes or change field matches with one keystroke, and you have full control over exactly how the ivtc/deinterlacing is done down to individual fields and can visualize it directly, so it's exactly what you want and autogenerates these insane scripts/override files for you

then again you don't seem to be in the habit of taking advice, so I'm kinda wondering why you're even asking questions

Last edited by TheFluff; 20th January 2017 at 08:03.
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Old 30th September 2017, 05:51   #51  |  Link
Katie Boundary
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In the absence of any serious, competent attempts to explain why anyone would do this, much less how to fix it, I've been forced to develop my own workarounds. The best overall solution is usually to just grab all the top fields or all the bottom fields, find matches for the ones that have matches, bob any orphaned fields that you're trying to match from, and discard the remaining orphaned fields, converting to 30 hz in the process (which is what a single application of TFM at standard settings would do). However, for the user who demands that every field appear at least once in the final stream, my standard approach for dealing with mixed content can be adapted as follows:

Quote:
mpeg2source("pd01p1.d2v")

A=TFM(mode=0,field=0,cthresh=2,mthresh=2,pp=5,micmatching=0)
B=TFM(mode=0,field=1,cthresh=2,mthresh=2,pp=5,micmatching=0)

interleave(A,B)
(this was for a BFF source)

The big disadvantage of this method is that most 60 hz content is effectively reduced to 30 hz anyway, but with more jerkiness and frame-blending than if you had just used the first method.
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Old 30th September 2017, 07:13   #52  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie Boundary View Post
The big disadvantage of this method is that most 60 hz content is effectively reduced to 30 hz anyway, but with more jerkiness and frame-blending than if you had just used the first method.
It doesn't matter anyway, as this is exactly what VCD requires.
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Old 30th September 2017, 12:10   #53  |  Link
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For VCD you can simply discart one field as it have exatly have the vertical resolution of an SD signal, and no one is goint to notice unles is some special case (I only remind one in and old show where for about a second te top and botton field where of different footage during an explosion, basically a crude way to supperpose the images, it was actually an explosion).
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Old 30th September 2017, 19:03   #54  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie Boundary View Post
The big disadvantage of this method is that most 60 hz content is effectively reduced to 30 hz anyway, but with more jerkiness and frame-blending than if you had just used the first method.
Yes, it definitely makes a mess of interlaced video.
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Old 11th October 2017, 21:20   #55  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phanton_13 View Post
I only remind one in and old show where for about a second te top and botton field where of different footage during an explosion, basically a crude way to supperpose the images, it was actually an explosion
Yeah, Gargoyles did the same thing for the title card.
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