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Old 15th December 2015, 18:45   #34681  |  Link
huhn
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depends on your settings. without LL it isn't any problem just tested 50 hz.
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Old 15th December 2015, 18:46   #34682  |  Link
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So my display is currently calibrated to 100 nits, since that is the intended reference level for SDR.
I can get that up to 300-350 or so if I disable backlight scanning, trading motion clarity for brightness.
But with HDR content not being very common right now, I'd be more inclined to just compress HDR sources to 100 nits than mess with creating a new preset on the TV that I have to switch to. Do you plan on extending the range of options for this?

It's not clear to me whether you're doing this algorithmically (in which case perhaps we could just enter a value from say 48-10000 in the box?) or if these are hand-tuned presets that you have created, in which case adding more options would be a lot of work.
HDR is looking pretty good on an SDR display now though. Another impressive addition to madVR.

Something that I was wondering though: I believe that one of the videos I have is HDR, but lacking any of the metadata, as it has that very desaturated, washed-out look that HDR videos did prior to this update.
Is there any way to tag a file as HDR, or is it basically beyond repair if that metadata is missing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
BFI at low frame rates like 60Hz will strobe way too much. Its best done inside the TV/Monitor which can drive the panel/backlight at much higher rates.
madshi has commented before that there are no immediate plans for this.
It really depends on the display. If you're limited to a 60Hz input, you're correct that BFI is not a very useful feature to have.
If your display accepts 120Hz though, you can use BFI to give you an effective 24/48/72/96Hz depending on your preference.
I can see this being a very desirable feature once 120Hz OLED displays get here, since you can't count on the display manufacturers to give you comprehensive BFI options. LG's current OLEDs don't have any options for BFI - and from what I've heard, they don't plan to add them either.

I will say that BFI, instead of backlight scanning/strobing, is largely useless on LCDs in my experience. The slow pixel response times result in much worse image quality when BFI is enabled.
On a CRT or OLED display, or anything else with fast enough switching times - perhaps a DLP projector - it does just look as though you reduced the refresh rate.

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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
You can however just mimick this with AviSynth if you really want to.
I was actually doing some testing with BFI recently, and the only way that I was able to get it working was to use AviSynth with an old version of ffdshow in MPC-HC.
JRiver wouldn't even load ffdshow, it just defaulted to its internal LAV video decoder.
And when it was working, it would occasionally drop a frame/stutter here and there.

While this worked just fine for the testing that I was doing (I wanted to see what native 24Hz would be like on a CRT) it wouldn't work if I intended to actually watch films this way. Inserting two black frames to get an effective 72Hz on a 120Hz OLED TV, for example.

So having support in madVR would be a much better solution.
I don't expect it to be a high priority item, but I would like to see BFI support at some point.

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Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8 View Post
does anyone know if a GTX 960 is able to do 4k downscaling to 1080p (at 24fps and 60fps)? or is it too slow?
You won't be able to do it in linear light, but it handles this just fine otherwise.

Last edited by 6233638; 15th December 2015 at 18:49.
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Old 15th December 2015, 18:59   #34683  |  Link
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Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
Something that I was wondering though: I believe that one of the videos I have is HDR, but lacking any of the metadata, as it has that very desaturated, washed-out look that HDR videos did prior to this update.
Is there any way to tag a file as HDR, or is it basically beyond repair if that metadata is missing?
Proper HDR reproduction requires a variety of metadata, based on information from the mastering process, and not only a flag that tells madVR that it is HDR.
If you don't have this information, then your video cannot be properly displayed.
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Old 15th December 2015, 19:02   #34684  |  Link
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Proper HDR reproduction requires a variety of metadata, based on information from the mastering process, and not only a flag that tells madVR that it is HDR.
If you don't have this information, then your video cannot be properly displayed.
I thought that would probably be the case, thanks.
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Old 15th December 2015, 20:32   #34685  |  Link
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the best mode for NTSC movies is 23p nearly no movie is true 24p
But with ReClock we can easily change the frame rate of an NTSC movie to 24p with almost no pitch change. Changing the frame rate to 23p will give us bigger pitch change, won't it?
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if the TV has a flawed 23/24p mode
How do we know that it's flawed?

Windows XP reports the following supported modes for my Epson EH-TW9200 projector: "24 Hz, Interlaced", "25 Hz, Interlaced", "30 Hz, Interlaced", "50 Hz", "60 Hz". The appropriate section of Catalyst Control Center doesn't mention interlacing for 24/25/30 Hz; I don't note any issues playing progressive videos on 24 Hz. Does that mean that Windows XP is wrong about "Interlaced"?
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Old 15th December 2015, 20:38   #34686  |  Link
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
depends on your settings. without LL it isn't any problem just tested 50 hz.
what settings did you use? and how are the ms?

and with LL?
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Last edited by Thunderbolt8; 15th December 2015 at 21:42.
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Old 15th December 2015, 20:58   #34687  |  Link
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Madishi on a 9500LC crt projector what is the nit capabilities of the projector? Have all the latest direct chain mods and Moomee card
and I can see changes all the way up to 10000nit.
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Old 15th December 2015, 21:57   #34688  |  Link
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Originally Posted by GCRaistlin View Post
But with ReClock we can easily change the frame rate of an NTSC movie to 24p with almost no pitch change. Changing the frame rate to 23p will give us bigger pitch change, won't it?
23p actually means 24000/1001 ~= 23.976 Hz or whatever value close to that the GPU really does. It is for watching blurays at their native frame rate.
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Old 15th December 2015, 21:58   #34689  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
BFI at low frame rates like 60Hz will strobe way too much. Its best done inside the TV/Monitor which can drive the panel/backlight at much higher rates.
madshi has commented before that there are no immediate plans for this.

You can however just mimick this with AviSynth if you really want to.
Got it, thanks
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Old 15th December 2015, 22:14   #34690  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Kod View Post
Hi madshi, you were right, the settings are reset, both the file and the registry entries get deleted, so that's not the reason why the subtitle positioning got fixed. In fact, after doing what you asked me, I can now say with certainty that the subtitle positioning issue happens only when DXVA is used for the scaling of the luma and of the chroma. If DXVA is not used for scaling, then the subtitles are at their proper location in the image. It's as if DXVA is used for scaling, then the subtitles are kept at their original position in the frame in absolute values, which is now somewhere in the middle-left part of the image. And yes, using software decoding + DXVA scaling also shows this issue; it's not related to QuickSync.
In order to reproduce this, could you send me 2 "settings.bin" files (from the madVR folder, or if madVR doesn't have write access to that folder, it's in "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\madshi\madVR\Settings"), one where subtitle positioning works and one where it doesn't work - together with a small sample?
- movie file here (35Mb)
- settings files here; when everything is fine, jinc is used for resizing; when it's not fine, DXVA is used for resizing
- screenshots here, for how it looks when DXVA resizing is used, in windowed and fullscreen modes, because of deinterlacing performed by madVR:


- screenshots here, for how it looks when DXVA resizing is used, in windowed and fullscreen modes, deinterlacing not performed by madVR but by the decoder itself (in order to show that it's not the deinterlacing that's causing this, but the DXVA resizing):



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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kod View Post
I confirm there is an AR issue for DVD playback myself, with a DVD of my own. But this is not new, it's here since at least 0.89.15 (did not test further back).

The copyright notice is 4:3 and is displayed properly, the studio intro is also 4:3 and no issues, and then the menu appears, which is a static image, and should be displayed as 16:9, but madVR displays it as 4:3. In EVR it's 16:9. No sample from me, but I think there needs to be the two videos included as well to reproduce this, and I don't know how to cut the vobs with the intro videos in.
Sample?
- VIDEO_TS folder here (67Mb)

Last edited by KoD; 15th December 2015 at 22:33. Reason: added screenshots for the case when no deinterlacing is performed by madVR
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Old 15th December 2015, 22:15   #34691  |  Link
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Originally Posted by GREG1292 View Post
Madishi on a 9500LC crt projector what is the nit capabilities of the projector? Have all the latest direct chain mods and Moomee card
and I can see changes all the way up to 10000nit.
Set it to 400 (lowest) for now. There's no way it will even be approaching that. It's almost certainly <100 nits, and very likely <50.

I can't think of many consumer displays, CRT or not, which would exceed 400 nits brightness.

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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
23p actually means 24000/1001 ~= 23.976 Hz or whatever value close to that the GPU really does. It is for watching blurays at their native frame rate.
Film is typically shot in 24p and then converted to 23p for sale in NTSC regions.
24p would be the closest thing to the "native rate" if you're going to use ReClock or similar.

Last edited by 6233638; 15th December 2015 at 22:17.
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Old 15th December 2015, 22:31   #34692  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
23p actually means 24000/1001 ~= 23.976 Hz or whatever value close to that the GPU really does. It is for watching blurays at their native frame rate.
I've just never seen "23,976 Hz" or "23 Hz" in the Windows' refresh rate pull-down list. Maybe because I never connected LCD/Plasma TV to the video card.
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Old 15th December 2015, 22:54   #34693  |  Link
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[QUOTE=6233638;1749987]Set it to 400 (lowest) for now. There's no way it will even be approaching that. It's almost certainly <100 nits, and very likely <50.

I can't think of many consumer displays, CRT or not, which would exceed 400 nits brightness.

Interesting will do some more testing tonight.

Thanks
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Old 16th December 2015, 01:40   #34694  |  Link
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Originally Posted by GCRaistlin View Post
How do we know that it's flawed?
by watching a movie at 23p. is kind of complicated and on the other side very easy. if you know how proper 23/24p looks it is very easy to see if a screen is doing a 3:2 cadence with the image. if you are used to this cadence by watching broadcast than you may not notice this.
with other word i use my eyes.

they test this: http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-...sung?uxtv=86de

nearly all cheaper ones fail this simple test.
if the panel isn't 120 hz they usually doing a 3:2 cadence.
Quote:
Windows XP reports the following supported modes for my Epson EH-TW9200 projector: "24 Hz, Interlaced", "25 Hz, Interlaced", "30 Hz, Interlaced", "50 Hz", "60 Hz". The appropriate section of Catalyst Control Center doesn't mention interlacing for 24/25/30 Hz; I don't note any issues playing progressive videos on 24 Hz. Does that mean that Windows XP is wrong about "Interlaced"?
windows XP doesn't support 23p and 59p. so i would be shocked if it read this wrong too.

and by interlaced it most likely means 50 field with 25i and by sending 25 progressive images to the device and flag them intelraced nothing is happening to them they are just repeated if the deinterlacer is of normal quality. i didn't even know there is a spec for 24i.

crimson removed the refreshrate selection. in the past there where more options than windows showed but AMD doesn't care i guess. this driver...

btw. this is leaving the topic of display mode if you have questions about this general HTPC stuff feel free to ask in a new thread i try to answer them.
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Old 16th December 2015, 01:41   #34695  |  Link
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Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
Film is typically shot in 24p and then converted to 23p for sale in NTSC regions.
24p would be the closest thing to the "native rate" if you're going to use ReClock or similar.
Yes but if you do not want to resample the audio you need 23.976 Hz.
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Old 16th December 2015, 06:08   #34696  |  Link
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crimson removed the refreshrate selection. in the past there where more options than windows showed but AMD doesn't care i guess. this driver...
Just wanted to point out Crimson has a new Custom Resolution Section (Display>Additional Settings) that allows you to do some very nice and clean fine tuning of custom resolutions... Although switching between these custom resolutions now has to be done through the Windows control panel, not quite ideal.

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Old 16th December 2015, 06:56   #34697  |  Link
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for the new version, looking forward messing with "thin edges" together with double SR.

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Just wanted to point out Crimson has a new Custom Resolution Section (Display>Additional Settings) that allows you to do some very nice and clean fine tuning of custom resolutions
Still lags behind 13.12 raw performance wise I guess?

At least it comes with an option to output >8bit FWIR which 13.12 lacks badly and no more kludgy CRU needed in extreme cases from what you're saying, 'bout time. Now eagerly awaiting new AMD GPU's and SuperSampling SR in mVR

Having chroma SR updated with the same algo as luma SR would be darn sweet too if any possible but I guess that's already on madshi's list somewhere so I'll sit tight

Last edited by leeperry; 16th December 2015 at 07:01.
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Old 16th December 2015, 08:05   #34698  |  Link
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for the new version, looking forward messing with "thin edges" together with double SR.


Still lags behind 13.12 raw performance wise I guess?

At least it comes with an option to output >8bit FWIR which 13.12 lacks badly and no more kludgy CRU needed in extreme cases from what you're saying, 'bout time. Now eagerly awaiting new AMD GPU's and SuperSampling SR in mVR

Having chroma SR updated with the same algo as luma SR would be darn sweet too if any possible but I guess that's already on madshi's list somewhere so I'll sit tight
Try SuperRes(3) + crispen edges(1.0) for 2x scaling factors. I prefer this to SuperRes + thin edges.
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Old 16th December 2015, 13:06   #34699  |  Link
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Yes but if you do not want to resample the audio you need 23.976 Hz.
So with NTSC video (29.976 fps and 3:2 pulldown) the correct tag is simply "deint=Film", which will result in a 23.976 frame rate.

And with 25 fps PAL to remove the speedup using Reclock, the correct tags are "deint=Film frameRate=24p"? Or maybe just "frameRate=24p" if it's flagged as progressive and no deinterlacing/IVTC is needed? Or should this also be tagged 23.976? (I can't use the global setting for PAL speedup in madVR because I've got some native 25p videos, which would get screwed up.)

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Old 16th December 2015, 15:50   #34700  |  Link
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The quality/reliability of madVR's IVTC algorithm is pretty good. It's extremely unlikely that running it on a progressive Blu-Ray rip will do any harm. It should simply detect that the video is a 2:2 cadence and not do anything other than analyzing the frames and detecting/confirming the 2:2 cadence.
I've come across a few scenes in some NTSC DVDs where the madVR IVTC algorithm freaks out and drops the 3:2 pattern and goes unknown before recovering when the shot changes. There are usually a lot of shallow angle horizontal lines present when this happens, like the siding on a house, or tiles on a background wall. Is it possible to restrict what madVR's IVTC algorithm looks for, or to force only a certain pattern, like 3:2, to reduce the chances of it getting lost?

FWIW, I've never seen it have a problem with HD 1080i60 3:2 content.
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