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10th May 2015, 09:23 | #29481 | Link |
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My experience with the new madVR version(0.88.1):
With D3D11: No problem with any queues. No tearing. Only gets presentation glitches when opening a video, switching between fullscreen/window, & on seeking. D3D11 + SM + FSE + ED 1 or 2 (with or without options ticked) = Plays fine but gets into a problem when the video is paused. It shows only black screen (when Ctrl-J OSD is on, it disappears too) while the sound continue playing. It gets fine when exiting FSE. D3D11 + SM + FS windowed mode (new path) + any dithering option = anythings fine. 9 to 10 bit = Like others reported, video gets dark in non-FSE mode with ED1/2. EDIT: Happens to me too, but it rarely does.
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Windows 10 64-bit PowerColor HD R9 270 Last edited by ikakun; 10th May 2015 at 10:15. Reason: Adding something... |
10th May 2015, 09:23 | #29482 | Link |
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I dont ever know if to update madVR I just need to delete all the files and then copy the new ones, or also click install.bat, or also uninstall before.
So far I delete everything, copy and click install.bat, but Im not sure if that's how you are supposed to do. EDIT: I wanted to do some comparisons, but Im not sure that if I take a screenshot with mpc-hc what I get its the "final" image (since its not even the right resolution) EDIT 2: grey-dark problems here's my feedback about that. If I set 10bit, the only way to avoid "greyness" is to use D3D11 (and even with that, it only works in fullscreen) EDIT 3: D3D11 PROBLEMS with d3d11 I got presentation glitches like no tomorrow Last edited by tyto; 10th May 2015 at 10:08. |
10th May 2015, 10:28 | #29484 | Link |
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Use your eyes, decide what looks best. It greatly depends on what your TV does with the image!
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10th May 2015, 10:49 | #29486 | Link | |
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Regarding point 5, I am writing to humbly suggest to keep the options available, maybe as an xml file to be configured manually, for those that really like to tinker with their configurations (similar to what Kodi does with advancedsettings.xml). My two cents, nothing more. |
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10th May 2015, 11:00 | #29488 | Link |
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can anyone please answer this:
* Is there any indication that 10-bit is used at output? To enable 10bit I need FSE and D3D11 right? Should I change "the native display bitdepth is:" to 10bit?
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10th May 2015, 11:40 | #29489 | Link | ||||
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you have set it under your device properties. in FSE d11 you will see a line in the OSD like ~ fullscreen exclusive mode, 10 bit Quote:
don't use a smpte c 3d LUT in bt 709 line you will get wrong colors. use a smpte c 3d LUT in smpte C line. i know that is broken right now so you can't do that. are you creating a bug entry in the bug tracker? i can do that just say so. so in the meanwhile you have to use a bt 709 3D LUT. just take your measuring and create a bt 709 3D LUT and add this in bt 709 so everything should work fine. you can addionally add a smpte c 3D LUT now. but this is not needed madVR will make sure the rest is ok. Quote:
madVR is outputting RGB and RGB is kind of 4:4:4. |
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10th May 2015, 12:08 | #29490 | Link | ||||||||||||||||||||
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For discussion about configuration topics, see below: Quote:
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How many of you are using the "debanding custom settings - toggle" keyboard shortcut which madVR currently offers, in order to fine tune those 5 or 6 different debanding parameters? Seriously, does *anybody* use it? I doubt it's more than 5 out of all madVR users. One thing I could imagine is adding an advanced settings page somewhere where all the hundreds of different options can be fine tuned. However, it's not really easy, because the main dialog will continue to have low/mid/high settings. So would the advanced options have to allow you to redefine what low/mid/high means exactly? That would increase the number of options by a factor of 3, because every option would have to be available for low, mid and high presets. <sigh> Anyway, something like this is not coming any time soon. It's too time consuming. For now I want to find proper simple defaults like low,mid,high and I *will* remove the other options. Sorry. I have to set priorities on the benefits of the majority of users. And the majority wants an easy to understand configuration dialog. Quote:
When talking about 4:2:0 -> 4:4:4 chroma upscaling, I think the SuperRes filter has more potential than using NEDI. I'm not happy with the current SuperRes default for chroma upsampling, though. But this is too early to discuss that. I want to concentrate on debanding for now. Quote:
I guess so, too. But it's hard to judge, anyway, because it will differ from display to display. |
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10th May 2015, 12:11 | #29491 | Link | |
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In the current state - yes.
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10th May 2015, 12:11 | #29492 | Link | ||||||||||||||
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What you should do or not I can't say. Depends on your display. Let your eyes be the judge. Quote:
Feeding the highest possible bitdepth to the display may make sense, but only if the HTPC/GPU output is really proper (and I have my doubts about that with 16bit at the moment), and only if the display handles high bitdepth input in a good way, and only if the display has a decent dithering algorithm itself. So many ifs and maybes. So once again, nobody can tell you how to configure bitdepth, because it all depends on your display, and nobody sees it but you. Quote:
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I'm using pattern 3. I can't see any pattern in 1.5.0 which looks more suited to video than pattern 3? Which pattern would you use instead? Quote:
There are soft sources, and sharp soures. Some sources need upscaling, some don't. Some are downscaled, some not. Are you saying that you really want to apply the same sharpening to all sources, after scaling, regardless of whether they're soft to start with, and regardless of whether they were upscaled or downscaled? Seriously?? Makes zero sense to me, to be honest. I tried to use a different approach: If we presume that the source is nicely sharp, then we don't need to sharpen it any further, as long as we render the source in its original resolution, or as long as we downscale it. We do still need to sharpen the image after using upscaling, though, because if the upscaling factor is large enough, even a nicely sharp source becomes blurry, even when using NNEDI3. So if we presume that the source is nicely sharp, we only need sharpening after upscaling, and the amount of sharpening should depend on the upscaling factor, don't you agree? Now of course not all sources are sharp. So if we have a soft source, we may want to sharpen it. That's what "image enhancements" are for. If the source is already very soft, it makes more sense to sharpen it right there, before scaling it, IMHO. Quote:
Sharpening has the biggest effect if you apply is before upscaling. However, from a quality point of view, sharpening looks better if you apply it after upscaling, because then the sharpening can be done in a higher resolution. So when should we sharpen? We need to find the right place and time in the processing pipeline. That's why the latest madVR build now allows sharpening as an upscaling "refinement" step: The upscaling is split into several 2.0x upscaling steps, and sharpening is applied after each step. This is IMHO a good compromise between sharpening effectiveness and quality. Sharpening before upscaling looks ugly. Sharpening after upscaling with a large upscaling factor has barely any effect. So we sharpen after upscaling with a max 2.0x upscaling factor to get the best results. So why do I offer image enhancements which is sharpening applied to the source? Well, if the source is very soft, it is a comparable situation to upscaling with a very large factor: The neighbor pixels in a very soft image are already very similar. So if you take such a soft image and upscale it further, after that a sharpening algorithm won't have much effect at all. So for very soft sources it's more useful to sharpen them before upscaling, otherwise sharpening will almost be without effect. Well, at least that's my thoughts about sharpening. I'm willing to be convinced that my sharpening concept is not good, but I'll need good arguments and ideally screenshots etc for that. Anyway, one again, let's not discuss everything at the same time, that will only become a big mess. Let's all first concentrate on debanding. Once we have the debanding topic covered, we can move on to the next topic. |
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10th May 2015, 12:19 | #29494 | Link | |
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But by mashing the keyboard I figured out that new shortcuts are ctrl+shift+arrows on numpad |
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10th May 2015, 12:20 | #29495 | Link | |
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isn't SuperRes a lot slower? i come back to this after debanding. |
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10th May 2015, 12:33 | #29496 | Link | |
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10th May 2015, 12:35 | #29497 | Link |
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Matching framerate seems to be fine (60 @ 60, anyway), I produced the problem playing 24p on a 60 Hz screen.
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10th May 2015, 13:10 | #29498 | Link |
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Yes. MPC-HC's window needs to be fully covered by another window or minimized, then it freezes after ~30 seconds being like that. Sometimes it doesn't appear frozen after getting back to\unminimizing it and instead very quickly shows all the frames it supposed to show while being stuck, OSD reports 900+ dropped frames and the playback continues. Pretty weird. I PM'd you a freeze report.
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10th May 2015, 13:22 | #29499 | Link |
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10th May 2015, 13:27 | #29500 | Link |
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For SD content I definitely like sharpening before scaling; I find sharpening SD after scaling does very little.
When sharpening before upscaling one needs to be very careful because a little more can be too much. To summarize, sharpening before scaling has a sweet spot, overdoing that sweet spot can destroy the image; What more, is that this sweet spot is personal...
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System: i7 3770K, GTX660, Win7 64bit, Panasonic ST60, Dell U2410. Last edited by James Freeman; 10th May 2015 at 13:32. |
Tags |
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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