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Old 31st May 2015, 11:47   #30621  |  Link
aufkrawall
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Yep, C-R. Just give it a quick try with the image above.
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Old 31st May 2015, 12:26   #30622  |  Link
James Freeman
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aufkrawall,
I think you got it wrong, the image looks darker without linear light not the other way around.
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Old 31st May 2015, 12:30   #30623  |  Link
huhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
aufkrawall,
I think you got it wrong, the image looks darker without linear light not the other way around.
isn't this the same?

and yes LL is way brighter on this screen. i guess normal scaling is more accurate in this case.
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Old 31st May 2015, 12:39   #30624  |  Link
James Freeman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
isn't this the same?
No.

Use this image:
http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/e4a...b9ur3m97zg.jpg

You will clearly see that the downscaled in Linear Light keeps the visible brightness as the original image.

Look at the small detail squares (AVS HD709 written) ,white text and fine detail.
Now turn LL on and off in window mode, and go back and forth fullscreen and window with and without LL.
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Last edited by James Freeman; 31st May 2015 at 12:45.
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Old 31st May 2015, 12:47   #30625  |  Link
huhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
No.

Use this image:
http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/e4a...b9ur3m97zg.jpg

You will clearly see that the downscaled in Linear Light keeps the visible brightness as the original image.

Look at the small detail squares and the white text.
Now turn LL on and off in window mode, and go back and forth fullscreen and window with and without LL.
what i mean is.

LL scaling is bright and gamma scaling is dark is one and the same thing!

it's like this cup is half full or this cup is half empty. just a point of vision
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Old 31st May 2015, 13:24   #30626  |  Link
aufkrawall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
LL scaling is bright and gamma scaling is dark is one and the same thing!
I think that's it. Thanks.

However, the image by James Freeman is totally synthetical, whilst the image from Wikipedia is actually naturalistic.

Are there any real world images that show a real "advantage" with ll scaling?
It can definitely look too bright.

You can try this with games: Capture one screenshot in native resolution and the other e.g. with 4x higher resolution by DSR.
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Old 31st May 2015, 14:39   #30627  |  Link
cvrkuth
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Pixel Format

Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
have you checked if your device is 4:4:4? you can test this with this: http://madshi.net/madVR/ChromaRes.png at 100% zoom.
I did some tests too but I am a little confused. Is it normal results?

Plasma TV Panasonic TX-P42G20E RGB 4:4:4 Pixel Format PC Standard (Full RGB) in AMD CCC
According to specification RGB 4:4:4 Full RGB should be supported



----------------------------------------------

Samsung SyncMaster S27B350
My Samsung monitor (can't set Pixel format in AMD CCC)


Is it normal?
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Old 31st May 2015, 14:47   #30628  |  Link
huhn
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your panasonic TV is with it's current settings not 4:4:4.

the result is a little bit strange usually the picture gets more dark not more bright but could be easily the result of an uncalibrated screen.

supporting RGB as input doesn't mean it can be displayed same for bit deep. 12 bit input and RGB input is totally normal for all TVs but nearly all of them are not even 10 bit and a lot can't display 4:4:4 too.
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Old 31st May 2015, 14:53   #30629  |  Link
Shiandow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
aufkrawall,
I think you got it wrong, the image looks darker without linear light not the other way around.
FWIW you can actually prove mathematically that using linear light (with a gamma > 1) will make the image brighter. For more information see Jensen's inequality.
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Old 31st May 2015, 15:02   #30630  |  Link
cvrkuth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
your panasonic TV is with it's current settings not 4:4:4.

the result is a little bit strange usually the picture gets more dark not more bright but could be easily the result of an uncalibrated screen.

supporting RGB as input doesn't mean it can be displayed same for bit deep. 12 bit input and RGB input is totally normal for all TVs but nearly all of them are not even 10 bit and a lot can't display 4:4:4 too.
Thanks. Can I do something about that?
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Old 31st May 2015, 15:07   #30631  |  Link
huhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvrkuth View Post
Thanks. Can I do something about that?
maybe there is an PC mode. i don't own an panasonic and i never calibrated one so i don't know how they usually handle this.
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Old 31st May 2015, 15:40   #30632  |  Link
cvrkuth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
maybe there is an PC mode. i don't own an panasonic and i never calibrated one so i don't know how they usually handle this.
PC and TV are connected via HDMI.
Thanks for your help!
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Old 31st May 2015, 15:42   #30633  |  Link
Qaq
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvrkuth View Post
Plasma TV Panasonic TX-P42G20E RGB 4:4:4 Pixel Format PC Standard (Full RGB) in AMD CCC
According to specification RGB 4:4:4 Full RGB should be supported
Panasonic only started to support 4:4:4 without downsampling to 4:2:2 in 50, 60 series and only for incoming YCbCr. Incoming RGB always processed in YCbCr 4:2:2.
But don't try to set Catalyst to YCbCr 4:2:2, that way you will lose even more.
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Old 31st May 2015, 16:38   #30634  |  Link
cvrkuth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qaq View Post
Panasonic only started to support 4:4:4 without downsampling to 4:2:2 in 50, 60 series and only for incoming YCbCr. Incoming RGB always processed in YCbCr 4:2:2.
But don't try to set Catalyst to YCbCr 4:2:2, that way you will lose even more.
Maybe is subjective but on my eyes, get best picture if I choose RGB 4:4:4 Pixel Format PC Standard (Full RGB) in AMD CCC, so that Pixel Format stay.

One more question .. Should I choose 8bit instead 10bit in AMD CCC for Panasonic TV? I am not sure I can see any differences in picture quality
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Old 31st May 2015, 17:15   #30635  |  Link
Qaq
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvrkuth View Post
Maybe is subjective but on my eyes, get best picture if I choose RGB 4:4:4 Pixel Format PC Standard (Full RGB) in AMD CCC, so that Pixel Format stay.
That should do best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvrkuth View Post
Should I choose 8bit instead 10bit in AMD CCC for Panasonic TV? I am not sure I can see any differences in picture quality
With my OLED the difference is day and night. With 10 bit banding is almost gone, more clarity in picture. But 10 bit takes a bit longer to switch to exclusive mode, thus if I thought I see no difference, I woudn't use it.
There were an opinions here that plazmas handle 10 bit their own way without any real benefits. Make sure you have set yours the right way. Personally I always set my TVs to PC mode for decent RGB 4:4:4 handling. That means a playback on 60Hz dispaly, but its ok for me, smooth enough. Check out your TV modes to find out the most suitable for madVR's technology and your visual perception.
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Old 31st May 2015, 17:42   #30636  |  Link
iSunrise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvrkuth View Post
One more question .. Should I choose 8bit instead 10bit in AMD CCC for Panasonic TV? I am not sure I can see any differences in picture quality
Personally, I would always do a quick test with a good grey ramp test pattern, and if you really don't see differences, then 8bit should be fine, but it's very hard to tell differences with actual movie or video content if you don't have the right samples, so a test pattern will solve that for you pretty quickly.
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Old 31st May 2015, 18:16   #30637  |  Link
cvrkuth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qaq View Post
That should do best.

With my OLED the difference is day and night. With 10 bit banding is almost gone, more clarity in picture. But 10 bit takes a bit longer to switch to exclusive mode, thus if I thought I see no difference, I woudn't use it.
There were an opinions here that plazmas handle 10 bit their own way without any real benefits. Make sure you have set yours the right way. Personally I always set my TVs to PC mode for decent RGB 4:4:4 handling. That means a playback on 60Hz dispaly, but its ok for me, smooth enough. Check out your TV modes to find out the most suitable for madVR's technology and your visual perception.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSunrise View Post
Personally, I would always do a quick test with a good grey ramp test pattern, and if you really don't see differences, then 8bit should be fine, but it's very hard to tell differences with actual movie or video content if you don't have the right samples, so a test pattern will solve that for you pretty quickly.
Thanks for Your help!
Regards
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Old 31st May 2015, 21:28   #30638  |  Link
dansrfe
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@madshi

Is it possible to have an option to use D39 overlay in windowed mode and D311 in exclusive mode?

I like that overlay keeps the gamma ramp for the desktop and disables it in the player window for use with the 3DLUT. Yet, it seems that I have a 10-bit display and I'd like to take advantage of that which requires D3D11.
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Old 31st May 2015, 21:35   #30639  |  Link
cyberscott
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Quote:
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Hmmmm... If you activate the debug build, you use the original v0.88.10 build, because I only sent you a modified release build. But the problem still occurs with the modified release build, too, correct? I'll have to create a debug build for that then, to get a proper new debug log.
Yep, same issue as before with the modified release build. Would it be useful to send you a debug log of 88.8 to compare?
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Old 31st May 2015, 22:25   #30640  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberscott View Post
Yep, same issue as before with the modified release build. Would it be useful to send you a debug log of 88.8 to compare?
No. But please try these two (both debug builds):

http://madshi.net/madVR8810test3.zip

Please let me know if either of them works (or both). If either of them does *not* work, please upload a debug log for that. If both don't work, please upload a debug log for both. Thanks.
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