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Old 25th October 2017, 18:35   #46841  |  Link
PurpleMan
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Originally Posted by ddjmagic View Post
Yes that's normal, the current HDMI 2.0 spec doesn't support it (4K60 RGB 12bit)
Thank you. Just to make sure, 4:4:4 shouldn't work either, correct?
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Old 25th October 2017, 18:44   #46842  |  Link
ddjmagic
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Originally Posted by PurpleMan View Post
Thank you. Just to make sure, 4:4:4 shouldn't work either, correct?
That's correct, the table of supported formats can be found here
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Old 25th October 2017, 19:18   #46843  |  Link
Razoola
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Originally Posted by jkauff View Post
A question for owners of 4K TVs or monitors. Does a 1080p Blu-ray upscaled with madVR look very much better than it does on a 1080p TV/monitor?

Prices are reasonable now, but I have no interest in broadcast or streaming 4K (except for baseball games), nor in UHD Blu-ray discs. Should I make the jump, or just stay with my 1080p setup?
This really comes down to the size of the TV you want to buy. If your talking about 65 inch then yes its worth to move up to 4k. If your on a 55 inch then maybe not so unless you want to take advantage of HDR
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Old 25th October 2017, 19:56   #46844  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by Neo-XP View Post
No, the image is cleaner with it off.

Here is what RCA can do at 4 with grain added to a pretty bad source :

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/121322

I really like the result in motion, no more disturbing artifacts
Nice!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
I tried to play the same file from my Win10 VM on the Mac and the menu played fine, whether XySubFilter was selected or not.

So I did some debugging on the HTPC and realized that in order to NOT have the issue, I had to select anything but D3D11 in LAV Video configuration (on the MacBook Pro VM it works fine with D3D11 too).

If I select any other hardware acceleration option on the HTPC (I tried none and DXVA2 Copy-back), the menu displays perfectly both with XySubFilter and with another subtitle option.

Does that make any sense to you/NevCairiel?
Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, at least not if madVR would be at fault. I'm not sure if LAV does anything differently for DVD menus when using D3D11 decoding, that would be a question for nevcairiel.

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Originally Posted by mzso View Post
Cool. Are you planning to sell it for money?
If you're not a plugin for a free and simple image editor would be far more accessible for people like me who only use these casually.
Photoshop plugins are supported by several Windows photo tools. So it makes the most sense. Any other plugin type is specific to only one tool, which makes no sense to me.

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Originally Posted by mzso View Post
I'd like to note that madVR takes away a lot of potential shortcuts by not allowing a bunch of valid characters on my keyboard, by falsely claiming they're invalid
At some point madVR is going to just record which keys you press. But I didn't have the time to properly implement that yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oguignant View Post
Hi, one question, in "display mode-> list all displa modes madvr may switch". Is there any way to specify the bits? For example, some way to automaticaly change from 2160 60Hz 8-bit to 2160 23Hz 12-bit? Without going to the nvidia panel, of course...
Not planned for the near future, sorry. Maybe when I re-design the display mode selection page.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat357 View Post
I went to custom modes setting in Madvr and tested some optimised modes: for every mode I got
"GPU driver rejected this mode, for unknown reason".

Even for the default modes (CTA, CTF, ...) I got the same error.
My PC has been doing this for a long time already. I don't know how to fix it. Nvidia GPU driver problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkauff View Post
A question for owners of 4K TVs or monitors. Does a 1080p Blu-ray upscaled with madVR look very much better than it does on a 1080p TV/monitor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razoola View Post
This really comes down to the size of the TV you want to buy. If your talking about 65 inch then yes its worth to move up to 4k. If your on a 55 inch then maybe not so unless you want to take advantage of HDR
It comes down to viewing angle! If you sit very far away from a 65 inch TV, then 4K won't help. If you sit very very close to a 30 inch TV, then 4K will be helpful. The highest benefit is probably for projection users because they usually have the biggest viewing angles.

If you do sit "close enough", then a 1080p Blu-Ray upscaled to 4K with madVR should look better than using a 1080p display. How much better will depend on the exact viewing angle, the quality of the 1080p Blu-Ray (the higher the better) and the sensitivity of your eyes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyrindor View Post
After updating to Windows 10 Fall update, exclusive fullscreen mode no longers works just black video with audio. I am using MPC-BE. Hardware acceleration is set to DXVA2 (copy-back).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexian View Post
I started having this problem a few weeks ago with no change I could point to. Since then I upgraded to the latest versions of pretty much everything -
madVR 0.92.5 then 0.92.7 today
mpc-hc 1.17.11 then 1.17.13 today
Lav 0.70.2
nvidia 287.92 (updated from 285.xx today)
Quote:
Originally Posted by leandronb View Post
Hi guys. Just did a fresh install of windows 10 fall creators update, and installed mpc and madvr. video plays fine but when i enter fullscreen it goes black. Sound is playing and i can see the mouse pointer, but no video. When i leave fullscreen the buttons of mpc are all black
Please downdate to 385.x drivers. The 387.x/388.x drivers are bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anima123 View Post
As we know, there are much more blocky when video is in motion than static views, especially if the video stream is poorly encoded, like constant bitrate for both scenes. Is it possible for some kind of adaptive strength or algorithm been applied to RCA in the future?
Maybe, maybe not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashlar42 View Post
Looking "better" is subjective. I'd be inclined to answer that no amount of upscaling can actually make something look "better" than the original, unscaled content. Others' opinions on the matter may differ. But I'd say that a 1080p quality screen is the best place to watch 1080p content.
Sorry, but that's incorrect. All else being equal, given 1080p vs 4K displays with "perfect fillrate", watching 1080p content on a 1080p display is 100% identical to watching 1080p content on a 4K display using Nearest Neighbor upscaling. And Nearest Neighbor upscaling is probably the worst algorithm to upscale an image.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wushantao View Post
@madshi

Code:
https://www.dropjiffy.com/f/0XGTIKYO
http://www.solidfiles.com/d/dkNGYNV38NGAY
http://katfile.com/xfn10nq0r9xp
3 url,same file

thx for your reply,wish this bug to be fixed
Hmmmm... That's pretty weird. It's a crash in the OS "DXGI" dll. Don't know how to solve this right now. But it only occurs if you suspend/resume your PC, right? In that case I don't consider it crucially important right now, to be honest...

Last edited by madshi; 25th October 2017 at 22:10.
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Old 25th October 2017, 21:05   #46845  |  Link
huhn
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Sorry, but that's incorrect. All else being equal, given 1080p vs 4K displays with "perfect fillrate", watching 1080p content on a 1080p display is 100% identical to watching 1080p content on a 4K display using Nearest Neighbor upscaling. And Nearest Neighbor upscaling is probably the worst algorithm to upscale an image.
i have to disagree on this. NN looks hideous on my screen i guess this comes downed to the subpixels and the results is not 100% the same as a 1080p.
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Old 25th October 2017, 21:26   #46846  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
i have to disagree on this. NN looks hideous on my screen i guess this comes downed to the subpixels and the results is not 100% the same as a 1080p.
What I said is a scientific fact. I explicitly talked about displays with "perfect fillrate", though. In real life no display has a perfect fillrate, so it's not as clear cut in real life as it is in theory. Still, if a 1080p display and a 4K display have identical properties (other than resolution), there's no way the 1080p will be able to compete with the 4K display, if you use madVR quality upscaling.
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Old 25th October 2017, 21:58   #46847  |  Link
patul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Please downdate to 285.x drivers. The 287.x/288.x drivers are bad.
Hi Madshi,

I'm experiencing reproducible crash with 378.78 driver (1050 Ti), MPC-HC keeps crashing when RCA is on. Is this also case of bad driver?

Thanks
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Old 25th October 2017, 22:09   #46848  |  Link
madshi
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Sorry, I meant 385.x, not 285.x, of course.
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Old 25th October 2017, 23:56   #46849  |  Link
Manni
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, at least not if madVR would be at fault. I'm not sure if LAV does anything differently for DVD menus when using D3D11 decoding, that would be a question for nevcairiel.
Thanks, I haven't heard back from him, I'll post in the LAV thread if he doesn't reply here.
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Old 26th October 2017, 03:21   #46850  |  Link
wushantao
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Hmmmm... That's pretty weird. It's a crash in the OS "DXGI" dll. Don't know how to solve this right now. But it only occurs if you suspend/resume your PC, right? In that case I don't consider it crucially important right now, to be honest...
bad news,but maybe somedays it can be solved :D
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Old 26th October 2017, 08:25   #46851  |  Link
huhn
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
What I said is a scientific fact. I explicitly talked about displays with "perfect fillrate", though. In real life no display has a perfect fillrate, so it's not as clear cut in real life as it is in theory. Still, if a 1080p display and a 4K display have identical properties (other than resolution), there's no way the 1080p will be able to compete with the 4K display, if you use madVR quality upscaling.
isn't upscaling grain/noise and not important pixel art still a problem?
sorry but if you didn't touch the image you can't do anything wrong. i'm not here to say that your scaling algorithms are bad or something they are the best i'm aware of by a big margin.
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Old 26th October 2017, 08:29   #46852  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
sorry but if you didn't touch the image you can't do anything wrong.
But thats not really true. Its like saying a 720p TV will have the same quality as a 1080p TV at the same size, but we all know thats not true.

High Quality scaling algorithms improve the image substantially, if you can see this difference depends on the size of the screen and your eyes.

At a sufficient size, a 4K screen with upscaled 1080p content will most definitely look better then a native 1080p screen (of the same size). What this size is depends on your eyes and viewing conditions.
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Old 26th October 2017, 08:31   #46853  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Originally Posted by Manni View Post
Thanks, I haven't heard back from him, I'll post in the LAV thread if he doesn't reply here.
LAV relies on the new subtitle interface to work when you use D3D11 in native mode, as it doesn't have any other way to render menus otherwise. The other decode modes have a fallback, but that won't work with D3D11. There is nothing really to be done about that.

Stop anything else from stealing the subtitle interface away, or wait until madshi implements support for multiple providers. Or just disable hardware decoding for DVDs, it has its own DVD checkbox for a reason, and SD MPEG2 is hardly a challenge to decode.
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Last edited by nevcairiel; 26th October 2017 at 09:15.
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Old 26th October 2017, 09:03   #46854  |  Link
huhn
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
But thats not really true. Its like saying a 720p TV will have the same quality as a 1080p TV at the same size, but we all know thats not true.

High Quality scaling algorithms improve the image substantially, if you can see this difference depends on the size of the screen and your eyes.

At a sufficient size, a 4K screen with upscaled 1080p content will most definitely look better then a native 1080p screen (of the same size). What this size is depends on your eyes and viewing conditions.
i'm not saying that the image will have the same quality i'm more pointing at the issue that scaling can degrade image quality depending from the source i'm not saying scaling can't have a positive effect on the image.

will a UHD screen look better or least least similar to a 1080p screen when all other specs are identical. i'm pretty sure it is yes for the majority can it make things worse yes and not only in special cases.
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Old 26th October 2017, 10:05   #46855  |  Link
ashlar42
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I don't know. Image processing can do wonders for bad sources, I agree. For good sources I think that not touching anything, by default, provides the most faithful result.
Then again, maybe what you are saying, madshi, is that since the aim of the original source is to reproduce reality (or whatever is being filmed), doing so at an higher resolution provides better results, even when upscaling?
So far I've always seen better results with content at native resolution for the panel being used. But my experience is seriously limited. And in no way I meant to disparage the incredible job your scalers do (especially NGU).
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Old 26th October 2017, 11:00   #46856  |  Link
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I definitely prefer watching 1080p content on a 4K display. There is content, like pixel art or fine very high contrast details, that gets damaged by scaling but for almost everything I watch scaling it to 4K looks a lot better. Some people don't mind aliasing at all though so for them the lower native resolution often looks better and it is only recently that preserving the sharpness so well through scaling became possible.
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Old 26th October 2017, 11:12   #46857  |  Link
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
isn't upscaling grain/noise and not important pixel art still a problem?
sorry but if you didn't touch the image you can't do anything wrong. i'm not here to say that your scaling algorithms are bad or something they are the best i'm aware of by a big margin.
Look at it this way. If you have a large display, where 1080p matches your eye's resolution that's just right. If you have an equal size 720p it's like if you have upscaled it with the nearest neightbor method. Meaning you'll have very noticeable pixels (tiles), basically quantization noise.

If you upscale the same 720p to 1080p with a decent algorithm now there's a much smoother (imperceptible) transition between those pixels. It essentially makes better use of the available information.
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
i'm not saying that the image will have the same quality i'm more pointing at the issue that scaling can degrade image quality depending from the source i'm not saying scaling can't have a positive effect on the image.
Unless you use nearest neighbor (or something equally primitive), it's pretty much guaranteed that you'll have a better looking image.

Last edited by mzso; 26th October 2017 at 11:14.
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Old 26th October 2017, 11:49   #46858  |  Link
huhn
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did you may miss this part: https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php...ostcount=46872
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Old 26th October 2017, 12:18   #46859  |  Link
Razoola
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Madshi is right that viewing distance is also a very important factor. Personally I'm on a 65inch at a viewing distance of 3m. I can see the difference between 1080p and 1080p upscaled to 2160p with madVR. I have to be careful here though because my TV is 2160p native resolution and is probably doing its own internal scaling from 1080p to 2160p when I set a 1080p resolution.

One cannot underplay either just how much the added colorspace and bitdepths of new 2160p panels can improove picture quality over 1080p without relying solely on 4x resolution either.

Last edited by Razoola; 26th October 2017 at 13:44.
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Old 26th October 2017, 13:38   #46860  |  Link
d3rd3vil
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So all in all HDR10 passthrough doesnt work properly as well? Then Dolby Vision will never work We need DV
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