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Old 6th December 2021, 03:26   #62441  |  Link
flossy_cake
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However this doesn't appear to be MadVR's fault at all, since the same thing occurs when applying sharpening enhancements through MPC-HC's own shaders dialog.

Nope, I was wrong. Changing the renderer to something other than MadVR solves the issue.

Therefore it is MadVR that is implementing the pre/post resize scaling rule with respect to shaders.

Please can we have an option in MadVR to globally lock the application of shaders to pre/post resize so that we can get consistent results.
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Old 6th December 2021, 03:54   #62442  |  Link
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Here is the debug osd when the issue occurs (animated png)



The issue seems to occur when the scaling switches from "luma downscaling" to "image downscaling" (red arrow next to Picard's shoulder) which occurs when scaling crosses the 1.2x threshold (red arrow at bottom).

I have tried changing the scaling algorithm in MadVR settings without success.

Last edited by flossy_cake; 6th December 2021 at 04:00.
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Old 6th December 2021, 05:50   #62443  |  Link
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I have some 90s sitcoms that have a slight aspect ratio error in the horizontal direction. Basically the frame is slightly stretched horizontally by maybe 2% or something, but it's just enough to notice and make actors faces look slightly unfamiliar in the uncanny valley. The geometry is just slightly off and it's easy to fix with MPC-HC's hotkeys numpad4&6 which stretch and shrink horizontally by small increments.

But this is obviously a pain to do manually after opening every media file so I'm trying to script it with MadVR. It seems MadVR does allow applying a profile to all episodes in a folder by adding [profile=name] to the parent folder name, but it doesn't seem to support a way to do the aspect adjustment inside a profile -- or does it?
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Old 6th December 2021, 15:46   #62444  |  Link
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Hi, MADVR development is pretty much dead fella, you wont see any feature updates we'll be lucky to even get any bug fixes at this point. Assume the worst and look for workarounds.
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Old 6th December 2021, 18:24   #62445  |  Link
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Yea, at this point if it's not HDR related, it's not getting changed any time soon if ever. The rumor is the Windows 11 issues might get fixed in the coming months but that's about it. Anything outside of HDR tone mapping is unlikely to get touched.
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Old 6th December 2021, 19:35   #62446  |  Link
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I think he should address the forum at this point. Given how development has been in the past and how it's continuing at this point (actively) and the time that's progressed without any real communication I feel its bordering on disrespectful.

Last edited by ryrynz; 6th December 2021 at 19:38.
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Old 6th December 2021, 21:34   #62447  |  Link
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i'm going to post the question on the tone mapping column to see what happens, he can only ignore it I guess.
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Old 6th December 2021, 22:20   #62448  |  Link
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I don't think madshi will ever come back to doom. These days, he replies only in the Envy thread over at AVS. I hope he'll prove me wrong
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Old 6th December 2021, 23:08   #62449  |  Link
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He only shows up in the projector thread when he needs us to test software changes that he is putting into his hardware product.
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Old 7th December 2021, 00:36   #62450  |  Link
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its not quite as one sided as that implies, everyone gets the benefit of the better tone mapping, it works well for all low brightness or non HDR TVs, displays and projectors, MADVR + a software player is still the best tone map to SDR option even if the others are catching up now.
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Old 7th December 2021, 01:49   #62451  |  Link
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Others will indeed eventually catch up. I've already switched my usage to another product at this point. Yes, madvr is still the king of quality. However, on an OLED the quality I get with a different solution is damn good and improving daily. You are correct that the madvr HDR tone mapping updates are NOT one-sided. It was the bargain madshi struck with the community but he made it very clear that it was going to be strictly HDR tone mapping focused until that feature is "done". Several years later and it's still nowhere near complete. What I mean is there are many things that can and eventually will be improved. Just realize that the reason behind it is to improve the Envy to make it more competitive. As long as you accept that and the time limited betas and spending quite a bit of time configuring each one as things change, you can keep an updated madvr HTPC going. How long this bargain lasts is anyone's guess. I have no more desire to chase down that last few percentage of image quality these days. I'm quite satisfied with a solution that simply works without fussing with it.
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Old 7th December 2021, 05:15   #62452  |  Link
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I have no more desire to chase down that last few percentage of image quality these days. I'm quite satisfied with a solution that simply works without fussing with it.
Couldn't agree more. What's the other product, if you don't mind me asking? I know you've been using your laptop and the SHIELD since your PC died
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Old 7th December 2021, 05:18   #62453  |  Link
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Still am. On the laptop I'm using jrvr. It's been making some really nice strides the last few weeks. But I don't want to derail this thread which is why I didn't originally specify.

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Old 7th December 2021, 05:33   #62454  |  Link
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Gotcha!
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Old 7th December 2021, 18:52   #62455  |  Link
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What does the dynamic target nits do and what’s the difference between all the contrast recovery’s ?
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Old 8th December 2021, 17:54   #62456  |  Link
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I have a question about Madvr. I have seen some guides that are many pages and i need many hours to read them and make the settings. But i don't know if it's worth the time.

I see movies on my 1080p TV (46") connected to PC, also i have a 2k pc monitor (27") but it's not as good and i rarely watch movies on this.

Can Madvr improve Pc monitor image quality? Also if i watch the same source as my TV, or Pc monitor, and i have a very good mkv quality, will i see any difference?

I have read that Madvr is good for projectors or very large TVs or for scaling methods. So, should i bother with all those advanced guides or just stick to the basics?

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Old 8th December 2021, 18:33   #62457  |  Link
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It's not a question anyone can answer for you. There's WAY too many variables. It's not just your equipment that influences the answer, it's the quality of the content, your viewing area, if your equipment is calibrated, etc, etc. The likelihood is that madvr will improve image quality in most cases. How much and whether it's noticeable by you is not something that can be answered.
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Old 8th December 2021, 18:54   #62458  |  Link
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You don't have to spend much time if you don't want to have the best quality for various scenarios. Setting a couple of things will already get you to a better place than most regular players.
e.g. "chroma upscaling" -> "NGU" "Anti-Alias, medium"
image upscaling" -> "doubling" to "NGU Standard" or "NGU Sharp", "luma doubling" to "medium", "luma quadrupling" to "medium", "chroma" to "normal"

Play a SD file, a 720p file and a 1080p file in fullscreen, hit Ctrl+J and see if "rendering" stays below 40ms. If it does, you're done. If not, set something to "low" instead of "medium". If you have a good GPU and are far below 40ms you can try "high" instead of medium, if you don't mind using more power. Can be done in a few minutes. Even just setting everything to "NGU" and the rest to "let madVR decide" will get you good results.
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Old 9th December 2021, 02:53   #62459  |  Link
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Regarding the upscaling refinement setting, can anyone advise what exactly the condition MadVR is testing for when it decides whether to enable its upscaling refinement settings?

I've made the following observations :

Code:
Video source res	| Fullscreen display res	| Is MadVR upscaling?	| Did MadVR activate upscaling refinement?
720x480			| 1366x768			| yes			| definitely yes
1280x720		| 1366x768			| yes			| seemingly not
1280x720		| 1920x1080			| yes			| seemingly not
I say "seemingly not" because I don't know if it's active but being suppressed by that pre/post resize behaviour mentioned on the previous page.

I'm guessing there is some threshold like eg. video must be upscaled in both horizontal and vertical by a certain percentage before it qualifies for upscaling refinement -- is this correct?

I need to know because otherwise I could end up with some videos being sharpened when I don't want them to. If that is the case then I need to use tags like [profile=x] to control it all manually instead of trusting MadVR to detect them as I'd like.

Last edited by flossy_cake; 9th December 2021 at 07:20.
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Old 10th December 2021, 00:09   #62460  |  Link
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I have read that Madvr is good for projectors or very large TVs or for scaling methods. So, should i bother with all those advanced guides or just stick to the basics?
Get a colorimeter to create a proper ICC profile with it. Then you can generate 3D LUTs with DisplayCal for madVR. I think most will agree that after having done this once, nobody wants back to hand-tunes catastrophes.

It can even create a 3D LUT for HDR -> SDR conversion which I find to look even better than madVR's internal BT.2390 conversion. It really looks phenomenal.
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