Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 26th November 2021, 16:11   #62401  |  Link
LordX2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
As you should. For the core player itself and madVR it's not a big difference AFAIA but for LAV (internal filters for MPC-HC) it makes a big difference when it comes to decoding files.
So having the 64bit LAV filters makes a big difference?

That was my thought with the 32 bit - see if the 32bit current MPC-HC worked (which I believe comes bundled with the 32bit LAV filters).

But if there is an obvious and noticeable reason to not use 32bit LAV filters, I will stay away from that idea.
LordX2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th November 2021, 16:38   #62402  |  Link
Siso
Registered User
 
Siso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Bulgaria
Posts: 599
Yeah, this is interesting, I've always used LAV filters 32 bit.
Siso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th November 2021, 17:04   #62403  |  Link
SamuriHL
Registered User
 
SamuriHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 5,230
If you're on a native 64bit processor, running a 64 bit OS, then using 64 bit LAV is going to matter. The real issue is one of memory. With these larger files, the more memory you can access the better. 64 bit processes allow access to more memory.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 11, AMD 5900X, RTX 3080, Pioneer Elite VSX-LX303, LG G2 77" OLED
SamuriHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th November 2021, 17:12   #62404  |  Link
Siso
Registered User
 
Siso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Bulgaria
Posts: 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
If you're on a native 64bit processor, running a 64 bit OS, then using 64 bit LAV is going to matter. The real issue is one of memory. With these larger files, the more memory you can access the better. 64 bit processes allow access to more memory.
Meaning better performance?
Siso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th November 2021, 17:12   #62405  |  Link
clsid
*****
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,463
I just ran a small performance test (with GraphStudioNext) as illustration, software decoding a small 10-bit hevc sample:

32-bit => 200 fps
64-bit => 324 fps

So 62% faster! This can of course be more or less in other cases.

With hardware decoding, perf difference is minimal, but nonetheless there is absolutely no fucking reason at all to use 32-bit (unless you use crap like reclock). Functionality and stability wise there is no difference at all.
__________________
MPC-HC 1.9.21
clsid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th November 2021, 17:29   #62406  |  Link
SamuriHL
Registered User
 
SamuriHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 5,230
Yes, the performance should be better running native 64 bit code on a 64 bit processor with a 64 bit OS. Running 32 bit in that case provides no benefit at all.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 11, AMD 5900X, RTX 3080, Pioneer Elite VSX-LX303, LG G2 77" OLED
SamuriHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th November 2021, 17:50   #62407  |  Link
LordX2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 168
Ok - I know years ago there were stability differences between the 32 and 64 bit versions - so I figured I would ask since I am experiencing some of those odd issues.

Speaking of that - I watched some 24.000 fps content the other day, and was experiencing stuttering playback (23.976 content was playing fine). MadVR changed the resolution to 24.000 just fine, and was showing no dropped frames or glitches.

Turns out setting the present cue frames down to 1 solved that issue (I had randomly set this to 3 when trying to mess with my previous problem).

So thanks to Asmodian! I remembered he specifically had to set his present to 1.

Odd that 23.976 content played fine, but not 24.000 - but both are doing well now!
LordX2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th November 2021, 18:31   #62408  |  Link
brazen1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 312
I have something set incorrectly in madVR for this profile. The jagged stair stepped edges are terrible. Other players without madVR display better. Tried a few different settings in madVR but it didn't clean-up. Hoping for some tips from you guys.



https://imgur.com/pgscKtF
__________________
HOW TO-Kodi 2D-3D-UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W11 Pro 960-4GB RGB 4:4:4 @Matched Refresh Rates 8,10,12bit
KODI 20 MPC-HC/BE PDVD19 DVDFab 3,5 & 6 PotPlayer
82" Q90R Denon S720W
brazen1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th November 2021, 19:20   #62409  |  Link
lvqcl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
Hoping for some tips from you guys.
Don't use D3D11 Native decode, use D3D11 copyback or DXVA2.
lvqcl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th November 2021, 19:58   #62410  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,357
tiem to say it again stop recommanding d3d11 native for madVR it can not use it correctly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siso View Post
Meaning better performance?
if you don't have access to enough memory performance is not an issue anymore because it will crash.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th November 2021, 20:26   #62411  |  Link
SamuriHL
Registered User
 
SamuriHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 5,230
^^^ LMAO! Yea, that's definitely one way to look at it. It is correct but it's also funny.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 11, AMD 5900X, RTX 3080, Pioneer Elite VSX-LX303, LG G2 77" OLED
SamuriHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th November 2021, 20:38   #62412  |  Link
brazen1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvqcl View Post
Don't use D3D11 Native decode, use D3D11 copyback or DXVA2.
Thank you so much for the suggestion. LAV DXVA2 cleaned it right up.

I have a very diverse collection of just about every format I can think of. Apart from this one low 480p res video, will using DXVA2 instead of D3D11 Native have a negative impact on other videos such as 1080p SDR or 2160p HDR?
__________________
HOW TO-Kodi 2D-3D-UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W11 Pro 960-4GB RGB 4:4:4 @Matched Refresh Rates 8,10,12bit
KODI 20 MPC-HC/BE PDVD19 DVDFab 3,5 & 6 PotPlayer
82" Q90R Denon S720W
brazen1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th November 2021, 21:10   #62413  |  Link
clsid
*****
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,463
You can also enable software deinterlacing in LAV Video to solve the problem. Then it will automatically switch from Native to Copyback mode when needed.
__________________
MPC-HC 1.9.21
clsid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th November 2021, 21:56   #62414  |  Link
LordX2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 168
Wait - so DON'T use D3D11 native?

I thought I saw a post a little while back specifically saying not to use DXVA2 Native.

I don't use black bar detection - so is there any reason to use copyback at all?

If I don't need copyback, which Native is the right one to use, D3D11 or DXVA2?
LordX2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th November 2021, 22:41   #62415  |  Link
QBhd
QB the Slayer
 
QBhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 681
Software decoding is so much simpler. I'm glad that I always have a CPU that can handle anything I throw at it!

QB
__________________
QBhd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th November 2021, 01:24   #62416  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,357
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordX2 View Post
Wait - so DON'T use D3D11 native?
using it is fine it should just not be recommended to other user or this will sooner or later happen.

Quote:
I thought I saw a post a little while back specifically saying not to use DXVA2 Native.
yes don't use it with madVR it will lower image quality in terms of chroma and chroma position with nvidia.
Quote:
I don't use black bar detection - so is there any reason to use copyback at all?
to get deint,
Quote:
If I don't need copyback, which Native is the right one to use, D3D11 or DXVA2?
there is no clear answer to that. d3d11 native has perfect quality while been fast but all copyback decoder have also perfect quality but they also support all kinds of features unlike d3d11 native.

the issue is on madVR d3d11 native did nothing wrong here just to make that clear.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th November 2021, 01:33   #62417  |  Link
LordX2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
using it is fine it should just not be recommended to other user or this will sooner or later happen.


yes don't use it with madVR it will lower image quality in terms of chroma and chroma position with nvidia.

to get deint,

there is no clear answer to that. d3d11 native has perfect quality while been fast but all copyback decoder have also perfect quality but they also support all kinds of features unlike d3d11 native.

the issue is on madVR d3d11 native did nothing wrong here just to make that clear.
Thank you for the detailed response huhn!

What are the issues with MadVR and D3D11 Native? The jaggies that the other user experienced?

Using D3D11 Native and NGU Anti-Aliasing on High, I don't notice any jaggies in particular. Although my content is limited to 4K and 1080p - so de-interlacing should also never come into the equation.
LordX2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th November 2021, 02:19   #62418  |  Link
Asmodian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 4,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordX2 View Post
What are the issues with MadVR and D3D11 Native? The jaggies that the other user experienced?
Only the missing features, like deinterlacing and black bar detection. The "jaggies" are due to missing deinterlacing when watching interlaced video, if do not watch anything interlaced this is not an issue.

If you do not need those then D3D11 Native is the fastest option, and it has no quality issues, unlike DXVA2 Native (with Nvidia).
__________________
madVR options explained
Asmodian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th November 2021, 02:49   #62419  |  Link
LordX2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
Only the missing features, like deinterlacing and black bar detection. The "jaggies" are due to missing deinterlacing when watching interlaced video, if do not watch anything interlaced this is not an issue.

If you do not need those then D3D11 Native is the fastest option, and it has no quality issues, unlike DXVA2 Native (with Nvidia).
Awesome! Thank you.
LordX2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th November 2021, 02:54   #62420  |  Link
vanschneidermann
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 3
What can I do when madvr do not work on the second display ?

Windows 11
Driver 496.73
vanschneidermann is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:00.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.