madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[el Filou]

Originally Posted by aufkrawall

My impression is PC games are mostly 2.4, though of course there are examples pointing the other way or having terrible clipping also with 2.2 due to bad tone mapping/lack of indirect light etc.

Originally Posted by tp4tissue

PC games are typically NOT graded to ANY-Standard.

Sorry for commenting on old replies, but PC graphics are supposed to use sRGB, so (SDR) PC games are also supposed to use that (and its gamma is different from pure 2.2 at the beginning of the curve)

Originally Posted by sexus

sup , anyone know if theres a way to have BT2020 be forced upon starting media playback, i know theres a hotkey for forcing BT2020 primaries , but id like it to autoforce it, appreciated

Rename your video file like this: "<video name> primaries=bt2020 matrix=bt2020.<extension>"

Originally Posted by cosmitz

I have resorted to setting about -150ms of delay, but if the issue is present only in exclusive mode madVR, kiiiinda would expect to solve it madVR side. I don't want to do audio sync guesswork.

I don't think madshi will fix anything for Windows 7 anymore.

[aufkrawall]

Originally Posted by el Filou

Sorry for commenting on old replies, but PC graphics are supposed to use sRGB, so (SDR) PC games are also supposed to use that (and its gamma is different from pure 2.2 at the beginning of the curve)

Really doubt that, that looks just bad in basically every single PC game. There likely also is no difference to console games, and I strongly believe those expect typical TV display gamma (~pure power 2.4).

[chros]

Originally Posted by aufkrawall

Really doubt that, that looks just bad in basically every single PC game. There likely also is no difference to console games, and I strongly believe those expect typical TV display gamma (~pure power 2.4).

Pure power" only exist if you have 0 blackk, otherwise it's scaled gamma already.

[aufkrawall]

Originally Posted by chros

Pure power" only exist if you have 0 blackk, otherwise it's scaled gamma already.

I'd be really surpirsed if most (cheap) TVs would take actual black level for different brightness settings into consideration with BT.1886. It's probably just a rough estimate (or worse) or when it offers to switch between BT.1886 and pure power gamma 2.4 settings, there probably will be no visual difference.

[Siso]

What gamma in a SDR 3dlut should be chosen, if I'm using tone map HDR to SDR via pixel shaders? 2.2 or 2.35 or 2.4 relative?

[huhn]

for SDR 3D LUT using HDR -> tone mapping you have to target 2.2 for mathematically correct results.

[Siso]

Originally Posted by huhn

for SDR 3D LUT using HDR -> tone mapping you have to target 2.2 for mathematically correct results.

I see, thanks huhn.

[el Filou]

Originally Posted by aufkrawall

Really doubt that, that looks just bad in basically every single PC game. There likely also is no difference to console games, and I strongly believe those expect typical TV display gamma (~pure power 2.4).

What would be the reason for that? Do PC developers use TVs to test their games and not PC monitors? Or do they happen to use PC monitors that default to TV gamma (which would be a very strange thing)? Or do they take the time to recalibrate their PC monitor to TV gamma?
Maybe what you're seeing is only applicable to console games ported to PC?

[huhn]

because it is objectively wrong for console games.

we are talking about computer games here they may not calibrated at all.

on the other hand we "know" adobe RGB calibrated devices are gamma 2.2.

i have not seen a single test where a pre calibration monitor has a gamma of 1 at the start of the dark parts. on the other hand the testing isn't done correctly to show it you have to measure the gamma at 0 and a little bit above to show it is a straight line in that part without that it just looks like a bt 1886 curve.

[tp4tissue]

Games usually do not go through a rigorous color grading process. They also have many different technologies to target simultaneously, IPS / VA / OLED, no fixed gamma would be correct across such a wide range.

The assets in the game are made by different people under different conditions, so it's a mixed bag.

You can put gamma to any value where the shadow quality looks good to you. THE IMPORTANT thing is that you're using RESHADE, as it supports 3DLut. Correcting monitor RGB through the gamma table causes tints if the monitor is not well behaved.

But why wouldn't you use reshade, the performance cost is significantly less than 1% for great color.

[aufkrawall]

If you don't care about lowest possible delta values for every single color, this tool also has developed fantastically: https://github.com/ledoge/novideo_srgb
Works extremely well for my wide gamut monitor, including gamma + grayscale calibration (no more Windows GPU gamma ramps banding screw-ups). I suppose LG OLED TVs with internal crap processing would fare worse without full 3D LUT processing though.
ReShade unfortunately doesn't work in all games (anti-cheat) and also causes a bit of banding with 3D LUT, as its internal color precision apparently isn't high enough and/or it doesn't use dithering. This can be mitigated by forcing 10 bit frame buffer, still a bit of a hassle. But yeah. Without the tool linked above, I'd still use 3D LUT via ReShade wherever possible. Wide gamut display oversaturation with sRGB/rec709 content looks so bad, it should be illegal.

[tp4tissue]

I haven't observed any "additional" banding with reshade that isn't already present in the source material or the poor handling of most non-pro display devices.

Oversaturation isn't a huge problem unless it's very uneven or starts really early where it affects skintones too much.

I've watched most movies using the saturation preset in dispcal, it exaggerates the saturated colors while keeping skintone "acceptable" it is a bit too hot for some movies, "most movies" look ok.

White people mostly look fine

Indians and Black people can look a little too red at times.

The East Asians they put in the movie are very light skinned so no huge impact.

South Asian films with darker-Asians can actually look too yellow/saturated.

So it depends on the material.

If you're talking about oversaturation of Objects, I actually prefer Optimus Prime to look Extra red and Extra blue.

NO sense in paying for all this wide-gamut and not using it.

[mpchelp10]

I am encountering a very unique bug with HDR passthrough and I'm wondering if anyone could share some insight.
My laptop has one of those "8+2bit HDR" screens with 2 GPUs (iGPU + dGPU). When I play HDR content with MPC + madVR, HDR colors only show when the player is either windowed or fullscreen but not in focus. If I enter fullscreen, the colors display as very greyed and washed out.

• MPC is windowed - I get HDR colors.
• MPC is fullscreen - I get washed out colors.
• MPC is fullscreen, but I right click to bring up the context menu - I get HDR colors.
• MPC is fullscreen, but I mouse over to the bottom of the screen to bring up controls/seek bar - I get HDR colors
• MPC is fullscreen, but I alt tab and focus onto a different program - I get HDR colors

[The Luggage]

I’m using a HTPC with Madvr, a JVC projector and a HD Fury Vertex2. The Vertex can show the details of the incoming signal and I use the macro function of the Vertex to switch the projector in the correct user mode (SDR-Rec709 or SDR-BT2020 or HDR). I’m using Kodi DS-player to play content on the HTPC

Lately I’m having an issue with MadVR and seemingly my HTPC in general. It seems like my HTPC always sends a BT2020 signal/flag with SRD content and I do not know how to stop this. I did not have this problem before. I do not know what change of settings caused it.

At first I thought it was limited to SRD-Rec709 content played with the DS-player: the Vertex said it was receiving SDR-BT2020 content (and therefore it kept the projector in SDR2020 mode and did not switch my projector to the SDR-Rec709 mode).

But the problem seems to occur all the time. Not only when using Kodi DS player but in my windows desktop or windows explorer or when playing SDR-709 content with a player that does not use MadVR. All the time the Vertex2 says the incoming SDR signal is BT2020.

When I send a content with a HDR flag, then the Vertex does detect this and my projector switches to HDR mode. For instance when activating the HDR-button in the Windows settings or when selecting pass through HDR in the “hdr” tab of the MadVR-settings. But all content that is not flagged as HDR, is considered BT2020 even though (I think) it is Rec709.

In the calibration tab of MadVR, I made two profiles (Rec709 and BT2020) and a rule to make sure that the “Report BT2020 to Display” check box is only enabled with HDR-material. I do not think there is anything wrong with the rule. And manually switching between the profiles (with a shortcut key) does not solve the issue. Just to make sure, I also unchecked the “Report BT2020 to Display” in my BT2020 profile, but this also does not solve the issue.

I tried updating my Nvidia drivers and have updated MadVR to the latest beta (141) but this also has no effect.

The problem does not seem to be related to the Vertex. If I use my UHD-Blu-ray player to play a regular Blu ray (Rec 709) the Vertex detects Rec709 and sends the macro to the Projector to put in in SDR709 mode.

Does anyone have a suggestion to fix this?

I only have very limited knowledge of MadVR and a HTPC, so I might be missing something obvious.

Am I right that when just looking at the windows desktop or windows explorer this should be Rec709 and not BT2020?

Thank you in advance.

I already asked a similar question in the MadVR support thread on AVS, but the suggested solutions did not solve the issue:

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/mad.../post-61310577

[clsid]

Originally Posted by mpchelp10

I am encountering a very unique bug with HDR passthrough and I'm wondering if anyone could share some insight.
My laptop has one of those "8+2bit HDR" screens with 2 GPUs (iGPU + dGPU). When I play HDR content with MPC + madVR, HDR colors only show when the player is either windowed or fullscreen but not in focus. If I enter fullscreen, the colors display as very greyed and washed out.

• MPC is windowed - I get HDR colors.
• MPC is fullscreen - I get washed out colors.
• MPC is fullscreen, but I right click to bring up the context menu - I get HDR colors.
• MPC is fullscreen, but I mouse over to the bottom of the screen to bring up controls/seek bar - I get HDR colors
• MPC is fullscreen, but I alt tab and focus onto a different program - I get HDR colors

In the devices section of madvr settings, set "native display bitdepth" for your device to 10bit.

If that does not help, then change HDR mode in madvr from "let madvr decide" to "tone map HDR using pixel shaders" + "output video in HDR format".

[IngramAU]

Have ran into an interesting issue with madvr dropping out bitstream audio. After trying nearly everything I seem to have landed on the Error Diffusion option 1 or 2 causing it for some strange reason. I am using 24Hz 12Bit RBG over HDMI enhanced to an AVR/Sony HDR TV. MPC-HC latest, latest nvidia, D3D11 renderer, wasapi is handling bitstream out.

I'm wondering if with error diffusion 1/2 I'm maxxing out the HDMI cable and it's dropping audio as a result. It seems DTSHD/DTS doesn't have this issue but happens frequently with DD+ 5.1 audio.

I can use PCM 5.1 and encounter no issues as a work around.

I'll keep testing to make sure this specific option is what is causing the bitstream drop outs.

I was convinced it was a Windows issue and was going to format and start from scratch!

EDIT:

Well plot thickens. It seems the issue happens with Jinc for chroma and Error Diffusion 1 or 2 on my 4k HDR files which don't need upscaling besides the chroma. I've changed to NGU Sharp Med/High and Error Diffusion 2 and so far seems to be resolved. Glad to have gotten to the bottom of this one.

[aufkrawall]

Originally Posted by tp4tissue

I haven't observed any "additional" banding with reshade that isn't already present in the source material or the poor handling of most non-pro display devices.

I can easily observe it in old Mirror's Edge, it gets noticeably worse with ReShade 3D LUT inject with 8 bit frame buffer.
Also, most LCD displays shouldn't introduce additional banding anymore these days.

Originally Posted by tp4tissue

Oversaturation isn't a huge problem unless it's very uneven or starts really early where it affects skintones too much.

It affects everything and even slight tints by e.g. color grading get annoyingly obtrusive.

Originally Posted by tp4tissue

NO sense in paying for all this wide-gamut and not using it.

Geez. You can't make proper use of wide gamut when the source isn't explicitly using it (which is ~never the case for SDR content). You just get shifted chromatic coordinates: Saturated red will turn pinkish everywhere and blue turquoise etc.. This is just garbage...

[mpchelp10]

Originally Posted by clsid

In the devices section of madvr settings, set "native display bitdepth" for your device to 10bit.

If that does not help, then change HDR mode in madvr from "let madvr decide" to "tone map HDR using pixel shaders" + "output video in HDR format".

Native display bitdepth is already set to 10bit
HDR mode was set to "passthrough HDR" with "send HDR metadata" checked.
Changing it to "tone map HDR using pixel shaders" + "output video in HDR format" results in the same issues.

[DMU]

Originally Posted by mpchelp10

my laptop has one of those "8+2bit hdr" screens with 2 gpus (igpu + dgpu)

Specify, please, which GPUs are used in your laptop?

[ashlar42]

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

This might also happen if you use an old version of LAV Filters (pre-0.74) and madVR has dropped its previously accepted values for PQ HDR in recent development versions.
Some time ago, madVR introduced a custom value for PQ HDR signaling, but that value then collided with the official value for HLG when it was introduced, so you need to make sure all parts are up to date.

Found this as I was looking for why a file with this mediainfo was not activating HDR on my LG OLED (which supports HLG AFAIK):

Video
ID : 1
Format : HEVC
Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile : Main 10@L5.1@Main
Codec ID : V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC
Duration : 58 min 0 s
Bit rate : 18.6 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 25.000 FPS
Standard : Component
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.090
Stream size : 7.52 GiB (99%)
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.2020
Transfer characteristics : BT.2020 (10-bit)
transfer_characteristics_Original : HLG / BT.2020 (10-bit)
Matrix coefficients : BT.2020 non-constant

I use LAV 0.75.1.17 and a still active madVR beta (I think the last one available).