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Old 30th May 2008, 21:08   #1  |  Link
nixius
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Learning to rip/encode in a good way, specifically anime.

Hi all,
I now find myself with some extra time on my hands, and so I would like to begin ripping my anime DVD's once again.

Unfortunately, in the past I have found I have been trying to modify things and sort of 'hope-for-the-best'. I have followed quite a few tutorials on this site and others, so I do know the general idea of what encoding is all about.

However, I would like to understand more about it. As the title indicates, I am only really interested in encoding my anime DVD's. So basically, I was hopeing that perhaps people could share some resources on things they found particularly useful in learning to encode.

In a nut-shell, I would like to have a higher level of understanding than I do at the moment. Encoding really interests me so if you have anything you think might be related just throw it at me and I will gladly read it.

I know from googling that there are countless articles etc, but I was hopeing I could get a more refined and good quality resources from your personal experiences .

Thanks for reading
nixius~

Last edited by Guest; 30th May 2008 at 21:19. Reason: rule 12
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Old 30th May 2008, 21:20   #2  |  Link
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There is so much variation in source material that it is not possible to give you an all-purpose recipe. I suggest that you start with one of your DVDs and post a link to a representative sample of the unprocessed VOB. Then we can advise you on how to properly handle it. Also tell us what your desired target format is.
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Old 30th May 2008, 21:58   #3  |  Link
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I would intend to encode with XVid, just because I have used it before in tutorials and the like (if you would suggest something else I am open to be swayed on this matter).

I would then like to put this into an MKV with subtitles audio streams etc, which isn't that difficult and I have done before with success. Really the main part is encoding the AVI, but as I said I have always struggled to really understand what half of the stuff means and that is why I made this post.

I shall post some screenies of the VOB's I have at the moment that I am working with!

I took some pics of what I think are useful shots of the type of things that I will have to deal with. Rather than spam the pics here I made a quick web page www.jpopulous.org/dm9/test.htm

Also, I don't have very much web space... so I did a quick 80% encode of a fragment of the vob file with WMV9 ^^;

www.jpopulous.org/dm9/vob.avi

Just let me know if that is enough information for you to start with.

Also thankyou for your response, I appreciate it!
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Old 30th May 2008, 22:00   #4  |  Link
Dark Shikari
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Might I suggest x264 for anime? You'll get much better compression than with Xvid, and if you're going to be using MKV, there's no reason to use such an aging format...
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Old 30th May 2008, 22:11   #5  |  Link
nixius
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I just saw my edit for rule-12, I apologise if my title was too open.

I can see how it could be viewed so.

I have seen alot of use of x264 and I will certainly look into it, I am aware XVid is old but it is all I have used to any real extent.
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Old 30th May 2008, 23:29   #6  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nixius View Post
Also, I don't have very much web space... so I did a quick 80% encode of a fragment of the vob file with WMV9
As I said, we need an unprocessed VOB fragment. Use a hosting site.
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Old 31st May 2008, 00:16   #7  |  Link
nixius
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ok I have a 1m15s .vob uploading now, about 68MB. I hope that will suffice. I will post the link when it's uploaded!

All right, here is the link:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LUOTKYYV

I hope that the file is long enough, and that it all works. I never used anything like mega upload before ^^;.

Last edited by nixius; 31st May 2008 at 00:49.
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Old 3rd June 2008, 16:38   #8  |  Link
nixius
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Hi.

I have left it a while, so sorry for bumping my own topic.

I was wondering if perhaps the VOB file I provided wasn't good enough for some reason, if you need a longer snippet or more screenshots anything else just let me know and I will do my best to provide it!

Last edited by nixius; 3rd June 2008 at 19:16.
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Old 4th June 2008, 04:25   #9  |  Link
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Take a look at this anime > x264 guide:
http://tankadillo.com/x264-anime
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Old 4th June 2008, 05:26   #10  |  Link
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It's hard telecined with some 59.94 field rate fades. This appears to work reasonably:

# Use Honor Pulldown Flags in DGIndex
MPEG2Source("E:\tmp\nixius\SPLIT.d2v")
assumetff()
telecide(guide=1)
decimate()
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Old 5th June 2008, 18:17   #11  |  Link
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The method I have always used is to create a d2v file, then open it with GK, do some modifications which will eventually give me an AVISynth file.

I have then edited this .avs file opening it with VirtualDubMod to try and get the effects I want, however, I can no longer seem to get a .d2v file that will work with GK or open with VDM.

I have changed the option to Ignore Pulldown Flags and Forced Film, (I changed it to Honor Pulldown Flags initially as you suggested). I also downloaded the newest version of DGIndex to make sure it wasn't something odd and verified I have the latest build of VDM.

Message By Virtual Dub: "Couldn't open source file, or obselete D2V file" so the problem is certainly with the .d2v (the avs also opens with MPC and says error on line X which is the mpeg2source line) which is weird, because this is the way I have always started most of my projects. I did try playing with a few more options inside DGIndex, but I figured I am probably missing something obvious.

Any ideas/comments/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
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Old 5th June 2008, 18:23   #12  |  Link
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You must have matching versions of DGIndex.exe and DGDecode.dll. Search the forum; this has been addressed many times.
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Old 5th June 2008, 18:35   #13  |  Link
nixius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neuron2 View Post
You must have matching versions of DGIndex.exe and DGDecode.dll.
Thanks for the comment it worked.

Sorry for not searching, I will make it more of a habbit in the future.
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Old 6th June 2008, 16:05   #14  |  Link
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Hello again,

I have made a sample of what I have done so far, unfortunately I did kind of throw alot of functions at it ^^;. Although, as long as it looks good and the file size is reasonable this should be okay! (I don't care about encoding times, as long as an episode is done within a few hours that is fine).

I was wondering if anyone had any comments on the quality of the video. I have tried using x264 for encoding this, 2 pass. That's all the info I'm gonna provide for now because I don't want you to judge on the settings, just on what it looks like

Thanks for taking a look, here is the link:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=IK8TCQ01
~6MB 41s

Also, because I have had very little experience with x264, I made an encode with XVid which I am more accustomed to. I accidently closed VirtualDub so the clips may be off by a second or two (/\).

Here is the XVid Link:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=FCNPYTRC
~6MB 42s

XVid and x264 encodes look practically identical to me.

Finally, I think that the resolution of the video is not standard so that will need to be altered but quality wise I think it's okay (but then again I am no expert).

Vob Pic


x264


xvid


Any comments are always appreciated!
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Old 7th June 2008, 09:32   #15  |  Link
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Some quick and dirty Photoshop analysis

Hi there!

I just d/l the images as .png files and dropped the images into Photoshop CS3 for a color comparison. Here's some results:

Color picked dark area of back of hair foreground character:

VOB R:99 G:57 B:61
Xvid R:96 G:55 B:59
x264 R:96 G:55 B:59

Next a color pick on area between the eyes of the forward-facing character:

VOB R:214 G:191 B:176
Xvid R:212 G:189 B:175
x264 R:211 G:189 B:175

Both x264 and Xvid are more contrasty than the VOB, with Xvid having the most contrast.

Xvid and x254 give virtually identical color reproduction, with a tiny bit more red rendered with Xvid.

Personally speaking, the Xvid gives me a hair more colorful, slightly snappier image.

At 600% enlargement, the pixels were virtually identical in all images (including the VOB!).

I'd upload a screenshot, but I don't use hosting services, sorry.)

Cheers.
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Last edited by fazzaz31; 7th June 2008 at 09:37. Reason: nomenclature clarification
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Old 7th June 2008, 09:50   #16  |  Link
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Update:

Upon reviewing the Xvid/x264 images, I see they are not identical frames to the VOB.

Regardless, at 3200%, the x264 definitely has more gradation in pixels than the Xvid (more variation in pixel color in the same 6x6 pixel box) so it's smoother, but less saturated than Xvid. Go figure.

Still, the Xvid looks more "anime" than x264, at least to my taste.

Really, it's a tossup.
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Old 7th June 2008, 09:59   #17  |  Link
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You're encoding at such high bitrate that there's not going to be any visual difference between the two.

This means you've reached "saturation"; you're throwing more bits at it for no real gain.

IMO, this is totally pointless, and the goal should be a reasonable compression vs. quality tradeoff. And, of course, its hard to judge how good your comparison is without knowing your settings.

Also note that "Photoshop" comparisons are totally useless, even worse than PSNR or SSIM, simply because the eye does not see chroma with nearly as much accuracy as it sees luminance. All that matters is your eyes--and if you can't see a significant difference at screen's distance from a single frame, let alone in motion, your bitrate is too high.

Last edited by Dark Shikari; 7th June 2008 at 10:04.
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Old 7th June 2008, 10:10   #18  |  Link
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"You're encoding at such high bitrate that there's not going to be any visual difference between the two.

This means you've reached "saturation"; you're throwing more bits at it for no real gain." - Shakiri

Yeah. I'd like to see a 6x6 pixel comparison of Xvid vs. x264 at a bit rate more comparable to a "mid-range" rendering (if such a thing exists).
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Last edited by fazzaz31; 7th June 2008 at 10:11. Reason: spelling
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Old 7th June 2008, 10:36   #19  |  Link
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Hmm, seems Google has free hosting (sort of).

URL to "Xvid vs. x264," 3200% enlargement of sample area:
http://docs.google.com/View?docid=ddb5ntkj_40ghmb394n
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Old 7th June 2008, 15:46   #20  |  Link
nixius
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First of all thanks for your comments, and thanks for all the effort in Photoshop fazzaz31

Quote:
and if you can't see a significant difference at screen's distance from a single frame, let alone in motion, your bitrate is too high.
Hmm yes, I did use a much higher bitrate than I have seen others use, for example, in the guide earlier on. Then, I shall lower the bitrate and examine the difference. Thanks for that.

Also, I would like to know more about encoding in general (with an emphasis on x264 seeing as it seems to be the best way to go, or at least that is the feel I get from around the place), and I actually made this topic so that I could find out more. So, if you have any recommendations of websites or articles etc to read that are related to x264 or around encoding in general (so for example I can start to understand what all the settings are for in in the codecs) I'd be grateful for any assistance in that matter. It's easy to google search things, but I'd much rather have a recommended source if possible.

Another reason I didn't post my script is basically because I am not sure what I am doing and I am embaressed to post it because it is full of too many plugins (that probably conflict) and I know it isn't very ncie!

Last edited by nixius; 7th June 2008 at 15:49.
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