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Old 30th May 2009, 00:05   #1  |  Link
880
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'certificate' folder?

On a couple Blu-ray rips I have seen a folder named CERTIFICATE in the root of the decrypted movie. Coincidentally, these are the rips that PowerDVD refuses to play. Why? Are the rips bad?
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Old 30th May 2009, 00:31   #2  |  Link
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Hi!

1) Do your original BluRay discs also have "Certificate" folders?

2) What software and procedures did you use to create these particular rips from your original BluRay discs?

3) Do your original BluRay discs of these particular titles play under Power DVD?

5) What version of PowerDVD are you using?
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Old 30th May 2009, 00:38   #3  |  Link
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It might be a coincidence, but these rips also have Java files in them.
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Old 30th May 2009, 00:43   #4  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by setarip_old View Post
Hi!

1) Do your original BluRay discs also have "Certificate" folders?

2) What software and procedures did you use to create these particular rips from your original BluRay discs?

3) Do your original BluRay discs of these particular titles play under Power DVD?

5) What version of PowerDVD are you using?
Yes the folders are in the original. I used DumpHD 0.6, AACSKeys 0.4.0a. I don't know if the originals play because I lack HDCP. CyberLink PowerDVD Ultra that came with my drive.
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Old 30th May 2009, 00:50   #5  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 880 View Post
It might be a coincidence, but these rips also have Java files in them.
Actually it is the Java that is the problem. I remove the BDMV\BDJO and BDMV\JAR folders and PowerDVD attempts to play them.

Moving the CERTIFICATE folder has no discernible effect.
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Old 30th May 2009, 00:59   #6  |  Link
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1) I believe you'd be hard pressed to find an original BluRay disc that DOESN'T have a "CERTIFICATE" folder

2) OEM "PowerDVD Ultra" (It's version 7.3) will not refuse to play a BluRay disc because it has a "CERTIFICATE" folder or because it has Java files. It might, however, even if you do have HDCP, fail to play newer original BluRay releases if you haven't applied updates

3) I'd suggest you download the free trial version of "AnyDVD HD" and try to play your original problematic BluRays. (By using "AnyDVD HD", you needn't concern yourself with updates to "PowerDVD Ultra".) You'll then be able to determine if your original BluRay discs are at fault. Additionally, you'll have 21 days of BluRay ripping simplicity available to you ;>}
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Old 30th May 2009, 18:05   #7  |  Link
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The CERTIFICATE folder contains the certificates against which the JAR signatures are verified. IIRC that folder is mandatory for PowerDVD to play a disc, even if its empty, but maybe this information is outdated and doesn't apply anymore.

My guess is that these discs contain some online stuff and the java applications access the AACS layer which is, in fact, not present on a decrypted disc, thats why these discs don't play.

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Old 30th May 2009, 18:16   #8  |  Link
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For what it's worth: I have PowerDVD 9 here, and it will not play BD folder structures that have had the BDJO and JAR files emptied on ripping with AnyDVD if there is a CERTIFICATE folder present. Deleting the (empty) certificate folder allows PowerDVD to play these BD folder structures.

Incorrect.

Last edited by Inspector.Gadget; 4th June 2009 at 18:47.
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Old 4th June 2009, 12:34   #9  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector.Gadget View Post
For what it's worth: I have PowerDVD 9 here, and it will not play BD folder structures that have had the BDJO and JAR files emptied on ripping with AnyDVD if there is a CERTIFICATE folder present. Deleting the (empty) certificate folder allows PowerDVD to play these BD folder structures.
The CERTIFICATE folder should contain the keys. If it's present but contains no keys (well, because ), most if not all software will refuse to play it thinking that's a pirated copy. At least the newer versions of players. You should always mention the versions of the used software.

Keys may obtain only the real movie producers, due to higher licencing costs. It's like the old CSS keys, you cannot burn a DVDR of any type having CSS.
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Old 4th June 2009, 16:50   #10  |  Link
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  • The CERTIFICATE folder should always exist on a bluray whether empty or not
  • If the disc contains BD-J (JAR files) and they are signed, then there needs to be a certificate in that folder that authenticates the signature of the JAR files
  • If the JAR files are not signed, there is no need for a certificate, but BD-J then cannot access some privileged functions, among them access to persistent storage or access to the internet
  • If the certificates are removed and a signed JAR file wants to access privileged code, the disc simply will not play
  • If BD-Live content is downloaded from the internet, it may (usually is) signed too, requiring a certificate in that very folder to ensure, that the downloaded content can't be tampered with

That's all there is to it.

And no, there are no keys in that folder and no, the certificates don't cost a penny, the authorers are free to create their own.
What costs money, is AACS and that is a different playground.

I really don't like it when people spread their wild speculations and guesses and sell them as solid knowledge. There's a certain danger, that others might actually believe them...
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Old 4th June 2009, 16:54   #11  |  Link
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One question left: Can the code in the signed JAR try to access the AACS layer, which is missing on the decrypted disc?
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There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment.
How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork.


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Old 4th June 2009, 16:55   #12  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector.Gadget View Post
For what it's worth: I have PowerDVD 9 here, and it will not play BD folder structures that have had the BDJO and JAR files emptied on ripping with AnyDVD if there is a CERTIFICATE folder present. Deleting the (empty) certificate folder allows PowerDVD to play these BD folder structures.
I'm puzzled - as far as I know, PowerDVD still refuses to play any kind of BD folder structure off the HDD, right?
So I'm assuming, you're referring to playing a mounted ISO?

In that case, I'd be surprised, if any player would play a BD from which you had the contents of BDJO/JAR removed, as these are the backbone of the disc itself. The player would not even know where to begin.

Removing the CERTIFICATE folder wouldn't change anything.
Also: there are heaps of discs that don't have BD-J from the start, but all have an (empty) CERTIFICATE folder.
Play fine with PowerDVD9.

So: can you help me understand, what you mean here, so I can reproduce it?
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Old 4th June 2009, 17:13   #13  |  Link
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Peer van Heuen - I'm referring to a BD folder structure ripped with AnyDVD, not an ISO. Here's what one looks like:

Blade Runner - The Final Cut
-BDMV
--AUXDATA (empty)
--BACKUP (untouched)
--BDJO (empty)
--CLIPINF (untouched)
--JAR (empty)
--META (DL,TS,EN, all empty)
--PLAYLIST (untouched)
--STREAM (untouched)
index.bdmv
movieobject.bdmv

I can click and drag the BDMV folder into PowerDVD 9 and it plays just fine. In case it matters, this is on Vista x64 SP2.

Edit: Just to clarify a bit, it plays the studio intro (1080p) followed by Ridley Scott's introduction to the film (480i) followed by the movie (1080p). Menus don't work, but that's to be expected with the removal of the folders.


Incorrect.

Last edited by Inspector.Gadget; 4th June 2009 at 18:46.
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Old 4th June 2009, 18:42   #14  |  Link
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@Inspector.Gadget

Using the procedure you've described is actually using PowerDVD to simply play the consecutive .M2TS files it locates in the BDMV\STREAMS folder - it is NOT playing the contents "as a BluRay disc" and is not using information from any of the other files in the other sub-folders in any way for this type of playback...
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Old 4th June 2009, 18:45   #15  |  Link
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setarip_old - You're right, of course. Previously, I tried to play the M2TS files individually and PowerDVD would not play them, so I assumed that PowerDVD was using the playlists from the BD structure. Now they do play individually, confirming your point. I wonder what I did wrong originally
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Old 9th June 2009, 09:58   #16  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peer van Heuen View Post
  • The CERTIFICATE folder should always exist on a bluray whether empty or not
  • If the disc contains BD-J (JAR files) and they are signed, then there needs to be a certificate in that folder that authenticates the signature of the JAR files
  • If the JAR files are not signed, there is no need for a certificate, but BD-J then cannot access some privileged functions, among them access to persistent storage or access to the internet
  • If the certificates are removed and a signed JAR file wants to access privileged code, the disc simply will not play
  • If BD-Live content is downloaded from the internet, it may (usually is) signed too, requiring a certificate in that very folder to ensure, that the downloaded content can't be tampered with

That's all there is to it.

And no, there are no keys in that folder and no, the certificates don't cost a penny, the authorers are free to create their own.
What costs money, is AACS and that is a different playground.

I really don't like it when people spread their wild speculations and guesses and sell them as solid knowledge. There's a certain danger, that others might actually believe them...
All the players I've tested that could play BD with CERTIFICATE also played the same disc but without it. -> http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=146134.
On the other hand, its mere existence could not force the stubborn players to play them.
The used disc was a decrypted one.

People told me that there are original BDs that do not have such a folder. As soon as I'll have my BD-ROm I'll check my collection. Also there are threads here saying that some BD players refuse to play BD/DVDs having said CERTIFICATE folder.

Because the whole purpose of this forum and these threads in particular is to make your own copies, on recordable media, and not to produce Hollywood-like movies. We fail our goal if we obtain 100% compatible BD/DVDs that however fail to play on the available commercial hardware (or software). Of course, this doesn't mean that the software developers shouldn't stick to the specifications as much as they can.

For me, I'm not interested at all in menus, just the movie itself - all this stuff plays no role. So far I know, this part was solved by the current software (some minor hacks might be needed).
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