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Old 6th March 2017, 16:47   #42941  |  Link
pose
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
It's possible that in some situations madVR thinks that direct quadrupling is possible with NGU Sharp and consequently activates quadrupling, because it's so fast, only to find out later that direct quadrupling can't be used, after all, and thus doubles twice instead. That would actually classify as a little bug, maybe. However, I may decide to remove "doubling twice" in a future version completely (not decided yet, I'll ask for feedback on that when all the NGU algos can do direct quadrupling), so I'm not sure if I want to analyze this in detail right now.
I think in the end we still did not understand each other . Lets move on. Ill just use profile groups and force AA doubling twice. On a side note i want to say that NGU AA very high looks more natural and better than NNEDI256 with live action movies to me. Before i only tested with anime. Great job and thank you
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Old 6th March 2017, 16:54   #42942  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
The chroma upsampling shader is stone age, it shouldn't be used together with any of the madVR chroma upscaling algorithms. It just makes the chroma channel softer.
I use evr(cp) for high bitrate hevc and I like to set and forget.I will remove it.Thank you.
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Old 6th March 2017, 17:06   #42943  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by Werewolfy View Post
To be honest I didn't notice that nearest neighbor was missing because I use it very rarely but I like using it when I watch old video games. I understand that any upscaling filters is better but when I play 2D video games, I never activate any upscaling filters and when I watch videos of these games, I don't want any upscaling filters because it's not the way I've played them.

So I would vote to add it again. If you want to remove one upscaling option, why not "spline"? Does someone really use it?
I really don't understand how anybody could want nearest neighbor when looking at these results:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/202526

Anyway. If I could remove spline, that would solve the problem, but in my experience, whenever I remove something, somebody will cry. You see, I *thought* I would be safe removing such a dramatically bad algorithm like nearest neighbor, but even for that some users are crying. So you can bet with spline there would also be some.

Enough people have asked for nearest neighbor to return, so I'd like to do that, although I can absolutely not understand it, but I currently don't have the space necessary in the settings dialog, so right now I see no easy solution.

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Originally Posted by BluesFanUK View Post
I wish I could use the new settings, they look good, but the noise it makes on the GPU (Palit 980t9 SJ) is unbearable.
Then you might want to get a better GPU. If you do some research, it seems that there are GPUs that have no audible fan noise nor any high pitched buzzing noise or coil whine. IIRC there was even a GPU manufacturer who was willing to accept RMAs on GPUs which produced coil whine. You can probably exchange the GPU via Ebay without too much additional cost.

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Originally Posted by pose View Post
Ill just use profile groups and force AA doubling twice.
Or modify the "activate quadrupling drop down", that should also work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pose View Post
On a side note i want to say that NGU AA very high looks more natural and better than NNEDI256 with live action movies to me. Before i only tested with anime. Great job and thank you
Glad to hear that!
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Old 6th March 2017, 17:37   #42944  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Then you might want to get a better GPU. If you do some research, it seems that there are GPUs that have no audible fan noise nor any high pitched buzzing noise or coil whine. IIRC there was even a GPU manufacturer who was willing to accept RMAs on GPUs which produced coil whine. You can probably exchange the GPU via Ebay without too much additional cost.
Not sure it's worth it, unless the 1080 Ti turns out to be substantial enough to upgrade. Strangely it only seems to be an issue with MadVR, everything else is fine, games included.

Perhaps i'll just stick my headphones on.
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Old 6th March 2017, 17:39   #42945  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I really don't understand how anybody could want nearest neighbor when looking at these results:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/202526

Anyway. If I could remove spline, that would solve the problem, but in my experience, whenever I remove something, somebody will cry. You see, I *thought* I would be safe removing such a dramatically bad algorithm like nearest neighbor, but even for that some users are crying. So you can bet with spline there would also be some.

Enough people have asked for nearest neighbor to return, so I'd like to do that, although I can absolutely not understand it, but I currently don't have the space necessary in the settings dialog, so right now I see no easy solution.
Don't misunderstand me, those results are great. But it's just not the way I've played the game.

Does someone use Spline? Or could madshi remove it?

Well... it worths the try
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Last edited by Werewolfy; 6th March 2017 at 17:43.
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Old 6th March 2017, 17:54   #42946  |  Link
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Spline looks ok, doesn't use much resources either.
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Old 6th March 2017, 18:08   #42947  |  Link
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in the old madVR version i was using spline 3 ART instead of lanczos 3 which is not possible anymore after doubling.

removing spline 3 for NN is a bad joke...
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Old 6th March 2017, 18:26   #42948  |  Link
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MPC-HC has a nearest neighbor option for EVR-CP. That could be used instead of madvr for such videos.
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Old 6th March 2017, 18:54   #42949  |  Link
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There is a bug still in 91.7 where you have a random profile, it displays a high or higher rendering time than "frame" but in reality it is lower.
It seems to happen with high frame rate material more often than not.

For example, I am watching a 60 fps hls stream (twitch) and it has a 16.67 ms frametime.
When I load the stream the rendering time is shown as around 17 ms but there are 0 frame drops, should be plenty of frame drops if that was correct.
While streaming, I then go and change the chroma upscaling from "super-xbr" to some random algorithm, for excample "Cubic", hit apply, then select "super-xbr" again and hit apply.
Now the rendering time is showing roughly 11.5 ms which is in line with the GPU usage and zero frame drops.

This is with 720p/1080p -> 4k.
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Old 6th March 2017, 19:34   #42950  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I can't really follow your thoughts. Where do you get the idea from that madVR would do 8.0 or 16.0 in your case? As you said yourself, if you select "refine after every step", quadrupling is turned off because it can't work in that case.
Because when you double, sharpen edges is applied, and when you double once more, sharpen edges is again applied. But when you quadruple in one step, sharpen edges is applied only once. I get this from the fact that doubling twice looks similar to quadrupling directly, in my sample. If anything, quadrupling directly looks better. But with sharpen edges and refine after every step turned on, doubling twice clearly looks sharper.
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Old 6th March 2017, 20:23   #42951  |  Link
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About Spline upscaling. I remember, Spline64 good vs Lanczos3, because Spline has less ringing/noise and it still sharp. But now we have AR-filter and Lanczos3 AR looks pretty fine for me (or Spline don't looks dramatically better). Anyway, Jinc AR win vs both.
So i think Lancsoz3 AR can replace Spline64/AR for users who like sharp image and Jinc can replace Spline36 for others (if gpu can handle Jinc).
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Old 6th March 2017, 20:23   #42952  |  Link
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As I already said in the past, thanks for the "let madVR decide", your default settings make sense (I use "medium" quality in "image upscaling").
Too bad I still have to choose "chroma upscaling" and "image downscaling" settings.
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Old 6th March 2017, 20:32   #42953  |  Link
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Originally Posted by thighhighs View Post
About Spline upscaling. I remember, Spline64 good vs Lanczos3, because Spline has less ringing/noise and it still sharp. But now we have AR-filter and Lanczos3 AR looks pretty fine for me (or Spline don't looks dramatically better). Anyway, Jinc AR win vs both.
So i think Lancsoz3 AR can replace Spline64/AR for users who like sharp image and Jinc can replace Spline36 for others (if gpu can handle Jinc).
Lanczos3 even with AR looks artificial for movies, spline36 or 64 looks more natural.
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Old 6th March 2017, 20:41   #42954  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Xaurus View Post
There is a bug still in 91.7 where you have a random profile, it displays a high or higher rendering time than "frame" but in reality it is lower.
It seems to happen with high frame rate material more often than not.
I've seen that bug in 91.6 (max stats lower than avg stats, no frame drops), but can't reproduce it now.
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Old 6th March 2017, 20:55   #42955  |  Link
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Lanczos3 even with AR looks artificial for movies, spline36 or 64 looks more natural.
What about Jinc AR in this case?
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Old 6th March 2017, 20:59   #42956  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
1) Is the new upscaling settings page fine now?
New UI is very nice, but one thing confuses me: seems NGU AA and NGU Sharp share all upscaling settings. Is it bug or feature?

Is mixed NGU upscaling (AA->Sharp) abandoned or still planned?
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Old 6th March 2017, 21:28   #42957  |  Link
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Originally Posted by thighhighs View Post
What about Jinc AR in this case?
Jinc AR is better than spline, I love it, tho I can't use it...
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Old 6th March 2017, 22:14   #42958  |  Link
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Yep, the new AR relaxed for downscaling after NGU doubling is what's causing the increased render time. When I set downscale to bicubic 60, all the builds render at the same speed.

This is kind of unfortunate, as the only one not using AR is bicubic 60 (bilinear doesn't count). For me, linear light on downscale after doubling has negligible impact on performance, but relaxed vs strict AR is quite substantial.
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Old 6th March 2017, 23:29   #42959  |  Link
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Originally Posted by har3inger View Post
Yep, the new AR relaxed for downscaling after NGU doubling is what's causing the increased render time. When I set downscale to bicubic 60, all the builds render at the same speed.

This is kind of unfortunate, as the only one not using AR is bicubic 60 (bilinear doesn't count). For me, linear light on downscale after doubling has negligible impact on performance, but relaxed vs strict AR is quite substantial.
It is a shame that you can't choose not to use strict AR anymore, because the "same as downscaling algo" option is gone. I hate strict AR, but I don't understand why this was removed for users who want to use it.
Same with the Lanczos3/4 (AR) vs Spline32/64 (AR) debate, they should both be available in the upscaling algos after doubling, because they are good for this, as Jinc also is.

It would be easier and clearer if settings for image doubling were in another page IMO (along with all the new quadrupling options and when they are activated).
This way you could choose "let madVR decide" or "same as upscaling/downscaling algo" for upscaling/downscaling algos after doubling.
You could also do almost the same for chroma doubling : "let madVR decide", "same as upscaling algo" or the all the new NGU variants.

It is kind of a bastard UI we have now with all settings for image upscaling on the same page, with mixed settings for new users and advanced ones.
I do not think the two can cohabit while making everyone happy, at least not like it is now. I totally understand how it works, but it just doesn't seem right.

Just my opinion again, don't take it too seriously

Last edited by Neo-XP; 6th March 2017 at 23:31.
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Old 6th March 2017, 23:33   #42960  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I really don't understand how anybody could want nearest neighbor when looking at these results:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/202526

Anyway. If I could remove spline, that would solve the problem, but in my experience, whenever I remove something, somebody will cry. You see, I *thought* I would be safe removing such a dramatically bad algorithm like nearest neighbor, but even for that some users are crying. So you can bet with spline there would also be some.

Enough people have asked for nearest neighbor to return, so I'd like to do that, although I can absolutely not understand it, but I currently don't have the space necessary in the settings dialog, so right now I see no easy solution.


Then you might want to get a better GPU. If you do some research, it seems that there are GPUs that have no audible fan noise nor any high pitched buzzing noise or coil whine. IIRC there was even a GPU manufacturer who was willing to accept RMAs on GPUs which produced coil whine. You can probably exchange the GPU via Ebay without too much additional cost.


Or modify the "activate quadrupling drop down", that should also work.


Glad to hear that!
Seems you were spot on and features and such are wanted in madVR

Gotta wonder at this moment though, leaving them inside madVR does affect the complexity of programming?

Does it have any negative impact in your workflow when designing it?
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