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Old 22nd February 2019, 03:44   #54941  |  Link
70MM
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I use black bar detection and think its a great thing as it lowers the rending times, however Ive had it trip up a number of titles and can go crazy at times...
e.g. On "oz the great and powerful" its a scope film but the start 15mins or so is B&W and meant to be 4.3, then when it changes colour the sides open to scope 2.35
If I dont have black bar detection ON, it works perfectly 4:3 > 2.35 in the right place.
if I have black bar detection turned on which i like to ue, on this title the start zooms up to 16:9 when it should be 4.3, then as it widens to scope after 15 mins the image jumps in and out, the zooming gets muddled and its a mess until the sides reach the scope borders.....

Black bar detection works great on most titles but not on anything that the ratios change. I have tried and tested every tick box but I just cant get it working acuratley on this title and some others that are similar. I have some other files that the ratios change 4.3, 1.66, 16.9, 1.85 and scope, on these that change often black bar detection gets muddled, again Ive tried making changes, read change every 45secs, 20secs etc etc, it still doesnt correct the zooming in and out.

Maybe there is a way that i dont know of to make black bar detection work for all unusual titles without jumping round.... For a film thats static its fantastic, maybe these other titles with mixed ratios it just cant cope...
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Old 22nd February 2019, 15:11   #54942  |  Link
Grimsdyke
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Originally Posted by Grimsdyke View Post
Here is the problem:
When I play a 4k-file that has no black bars and change something in MadVR like target nits, etc. I see an immediate effect !!
But on files with black bars nothing changes - no matter what setting I test !! The only setting that has an effect is (de-)activating "output video in HDR format".
@Madshi. Without the madvr osd I can at least set/change target nits. Most of other settings are still not working. Don't know if you could do anything about that. Thx

Last edited by Grimsdyke; 22nd February 2019 at 18:02.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 18:14   #54943  |  Link
tp4tissue
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Originally Posted by 70MM View Post
I use black bar detection and think its a great thing as it lowers the rending times, however Ive had it trip up a number of titles and can go crazy at times...
e.g. On "oz the great and powerful" its a scope film but the start 15mins or so is B&W and meant to be 4.3, then when it changes colour the sides open to scope 2.35
If I dont have black bar detection ON, it works perfectly 4:3 > 2.35 in the right place.
if I have black bar detection turned on which i like to ue, on this title the start zooms up to 16:9 when it should be 4.3, then as it widens to scope after 15 mins the image jumps in and out, the zooming gets muddled and its a mess until the sides reach the scope borders.....

Black bar detection works great on most titles but not on anything that the ratios change. I have tried and tested every tick box but I just cant get it working acuratley on this title and some others that are similar. I have some other files that the ratios change 4.3, 1.66, 16.9, 1.85 and scope, on these that change often black bar detection gets muddled, again Ive tried making changes, read change every 45secs, 20secs etc etc, it still doesnt correct the zooming in and out.

Maybe there is a way that i dont know of to make black bar detection work for all unusual titles without jumping round.... For a film thats static its fantastic, maybe these other titles with mixed ratios it just cant cope...
Where is Black bar detection enabled? What does it allow you to do ?

NM I found it..

It doesn't seem to be lowering rendering times.. How much should it lower rendering times ?

OKOKOK, on 2.39:1 film, I looked more closely.. ~ 0.4-0.6 ms, Is that the correct behavior everyone else is getting.

This is on 1060 @ 2088mhz, 9ghz memory
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Last edited by tp4tissue; 22nd February 2019 at 18:54.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 19:46   #54944  |  Link
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I am sorry, if this question may be out of place and/or too "n00b" to be allowed - just tell me if that is the case and I'll remove it. :-)

I have Asperger and get anxiety if things are not done in the same way each time and I am not at home, so I can't check this and therefore I am turning to this forum.

My HTPC is a Windows 7 Home Premium DELL desktop computer and the only programs I use on it are CCleaner, ReClock, MPC-HC with LAV Filters and madVR.

(Yes, I know about CCleaner, but only use the right click option on the Recycle Bin to empty it and never enter the program itself.)

When I want to watch something, I move it from either of the USB-hard drives connected to my router or from my NAS and place it on the Windows desktop of the HTPC. I then run CCleaner once, click the .mkv-file once and press Enter on the keyboard; ReClock, MPC-HC and madVR starts accordingly. When the program has come to it's end, ReClock, MPC-HC and madVR exits back to the Windows desktop, after which I drag the .mkv-file to the Recycle Bin, run CCleaner once from the right-click menu and then either shut the computer down, turn off the TV (to watch something later) or move a new .mkv-file to the desktop from either drive.

With this in mind, I have two questions for you, the people, more knowledgeable than I:

1. The last program I watched before I left home, I think I might have forgotten the .mkv-file on the desktop, ran CCleaner from the right-click menu of the, empty, Recycle Bin and then shut down the computer. If that is the case and the computer is - next time - not turned on in the same state that it always is: With and empty Windows desktop and I the proceed to remove the file, can this in any way affect the performance and - most importantly - the picture quality of - primarily - madVR (and/or ReClock and MPC-HC)?

2. Additional question - please put it to me as bluntly as you can: I am "overdoing it", aren't I?

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Old 22nd February 2019, 20:04   #54945  |  Link
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Originally Posted by SirSwede View Post
I am sorry, if this question may be out of place and/or too "n00b" to be allowed - just tell me if that is the case and I'll remove it. :-)

I have Asperger and get anxiety if things are not done in the same way each time and I am not at home, so I can't check this and therefore I am turning to this forum.

My HTPC is a Windows 7 Home Premium DELL desktop computer and the only programs I use on it are CCleaner, ReClock, MPC-HC with LAV Filters and madVR.

(Yes, I know about CCleaner, but only use the right click option on the Recycle Bin to empty it and never enter the program itself.)

When I want to watch something, I move it from either of the USB-hard drives connected to my router or from my NAS and place it on the Windows desktop of the HTPC. I then run CCleaner once, click the .mkv-file once and press Enter on the keyboard; ReClock, MPC-HC and madVR starts accordingly. When the program has come to it's end, ReClock, MPC-HC and madVR exits back to the Windows desktop, after which I drag the .mkv-file to the Recycle Bin, run CCleaner once from the right-click menu and then either shut the computer down, turn off the TV (to watch something later) or move a new .mkv-file to the desktop from either drive.

With this in mind, I have two questions for you, the people, more knowledgeable than I:

1. The last program I watched before I left home, I think I might have forgotten the .mkv-file on the desktop, ran CCleaner from the right-click menu of the, empty, Recycle Bin and then shut down the computer. If that is the case and the computer is - next time - not turned on in the same state that it always is: With and empty Windows desktop and I the proceed to remove the file, can this in any way affect the performance and - most importantly - the picture quality of - primarily - madVR (and/or ReClock and MPC-HC)?

2. Additional question - please put it to me as bluntly as you can: I am "overdoing it", aren't I?


It will definitely not affect picture quality.

The ccleaner also has no impact in your current use-process.

Theoretically if you wanted everything to remain identically in place, you would have to re-image the entire drive every time you used the computer.

EVEN THEN, because of wear leveling on the ssd nand, the data will never be copied to the exact same place after imaging.

There are analog elements to the entire computing process which one can not bring ORDER to.

The very nature of Perception is a simplification/ modeling process, an approximation of what is.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 20:17   #54946  |  Link
Jesco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirSwede View Post
I am sorry, if this question may be out of place and/or too "n00b" to be allowed - just tell me if that is the case and I'll remove it. :-)

I have Asperger and get anxiety if things are not done in the same way each time and I am not at home, so I can't check this and therefore I am turning to this forum.

My HTPC is a Windows 7 Home Premium DELL desktop computer and the only programs I use on it are CCleaner, ReClock, MPC-HC with LAV Filters and madVR.

(Yes, I know about CCleaner, but only use the right click option on the Recycle Bin to empty it and never enter the program itself.)

When I want to watch something, I move it from either of the USB-hard drives connected to my router or from my NAS and place it on the Windows desktop of the HTPC. I then run CCleaner once, click the .mkv-file once and press Enter on the keyboard; ReClock, MPC-HC and madVR starts accordingly. When the program has come to it's end, ReClock, MPC-HC and madVR exits back to the Windows desktop, after which I drag the .mkv-file to the Recycle Bin, run CCleaner once from the right-click menu and then either shut the computer down, turn off the TV (to watch something later) or move a new .mkv-file to the desktop from either drive.


Why don’t you just run the movie directly from the nas or external harddrive? Seems senseless to move files everytime. Defeats the purpose of having external storage. Also, why don’t you just empty the recycle bin using rightmouse button on it. No need for ccleaner for just emptying the recyclebin.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 20:51   #54947  |  Link
SirSwede
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Originally Posted by Jesco View Post
Why don’t you just run the movie directly from the nas or external harddrive? Seems senseless to move files everytime. Defeats the purpose of having external storage. Also, why don’t you just empty the recycle bin using rightmouse button on it. No need for ccleaner for just emptying the recyclebin.
Two reasons:

1. I had the HTPC before I had any kind of external storage, so that would move me away from how I've always done it (the Asperger comes into play there)

2. In my head, that would be slower, no? Wouldn't the render and present times increase, running it not directly from the same hard drive where madVR is installed?
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Old 22nd February 2019, 22:17   #54948  |  Link
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Press Shift+Delete to bypass recycle bin.

Location of a file does not have any effect on the performance of madvr.
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Old 23rd February 2019, 00:28   #54949  |  Link
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Press Shift+Delete to bypass recycle bin.

Location of a file does not have any effect on the performance of madvr.
It does on very low spec machines. I've got a netbook that chokes if playing files over wifi, as the transfer and cpu overhead of the wireless eats into the rendertime. And some wireless cards also greatly increase dpc latency which can cause render time spikes as well.
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Old 23rd February 2019, 01:31   #54950  |  Link
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this has nothing todo with madVr if the file doesn't get there in time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 70MM View Post
I use black bar detection and think its a great thing as it lowers the rending times, however Ive had it trip up a number of titles and can go crazy at times...
e.g. On "oz the great and powerful" its a scope film but the start 15mins or so is B&W and meant to be 4.3, then when it changes colour the sides open to scope 2.35
If I dont have black bar detection ON, it works perfectly 4:3 > 2.35 in the right place.
if I have black bar detection turned on which i like to ue, on this title the start zooms up to 16:9 when it should be 4.3, then as it widens to scope after 15 mins the image jumps in and out, the zooming gets muddled and its a mess until the sides reach the scope borders.....

Black bar detection works great on most titles but not on anything that the ratios change. I have tried and tested every tick box but I just cant get it working acuratley on this title and some others that are similar. I have some other files that the ratios change 4.3, 1.66, 16.9, 1.85 and scope, on these that change often black bar detection gets muddled, again Ive tried making changes, read change every 45secs, 20secs etc etc, it still doesnt correct the zooming in and out.

Maybe there is a way that i dont know of to make black bar detection work for all unusual titles without jumping round.... For a film thats static its fantastic, maybe these other titles with mixed ratios it just cant cope...
try the option: "if black bars change pick one zoom factor".

this feature will never be fool proofed.
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Old 23rd February 2019, 06:17   #54951  |  Link
70MM
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
this has nothing todo with madVr if the file doesn't get there in time.



try the option: "if black bars change pick one zoom factor".

this feature will never be fool proofed.
Yes I have tried that setting but it still goes crazy on titles with mixed ratios Im sorry to say...
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Old 23rd February 2019, 16:27   #54952  |  Link
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Yes I have tried that setting but it still goes crazy on titles with mixed ratios Im sorry to say...
Are there lots of mix-ratio movies ?

What quantity of rendering time improvements are you guys seeing.

I'm only seeing 0.4-0.6ms , that doesn't seem worth it.

The Most demanding settings in madvr have differences of 10-30ms on cheaper cards, so that 0.4-0.6 saving may not help to cut the cheese anywhere.

woah.. nm figured it out, didn't crop. 5-10ms on 1080p upscales...


How does cropped profiles work

Can i use (AR > 1.77) ?? so pretty much anything > 16:9 use a different profile ?

if (variableAR) "VAR"
else if (AR > 16:9) "AR"

Does AR have to be input as a ratio ?

Is there a way to crop horizontal bars only, but not crop vertical bars. ?
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Old 23rd February 2019, 20:55   #54953  |  Link
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It does on very low spec machines.
He means directly related. Total system performance is another issue.
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Old 24th February 2019, 01:00   #54954  |  Link
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Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
Is there a way to crop horizontal bars only, but not crop vertical bars. ?
Why would you want to do that?
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Old 24th February 2019, 13:20   #54955  |  Link
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Why would you want to do that?
Because he seems quite mad.....he wrote most of that last post to himself over an hr.
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Old 24th February 2019, 13:52   #54956  |  Link
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I ain't gonna change anything but I am just curious.
Smooth motion blurs slightly the whole image,right?
For example does NGU still looks like NGU with smooth motion enabled or it looks like a lower quality upscaler?
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Old 24th February 2019, 15:16   #54957  |  Link
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Why would you want to do that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by madjock View Post
Because he seems quite mad.....he wrote most of that last post to himself over an hr.
Hahahahahahahahaah..

I got a few movies that have 2-3 pixel worth of vertical black bar,

I'd rather have that Uncropped, because otherwise it goes from NGU to NGU + Lanczos. Why waste so much processing power over 2 lines.

And not just the processing overhead, but how much is Lanczos messing with the already really good image from NGU..


If the detection could reject small quantities that would be good.

But I would say rejecting vertical in general would cover nearly all cases, because if it's a wide screen movie, the vertical black bar I've seen are at most 10-20 pixels wide. For example the ghost in the shell anniversary bluray.

Adding Lanczos on top of NGU could push it into the 40+ ms territory, without it , just NGU , it's in the 35ms territory, that's a huge difference. if we could crop horizontal and NOT vertical.
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Old 24th February 2019, 15:21   #54958  |  Link
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go to zoom control and read the first line...
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Old 24th February 2019, 15:22   #54959  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Damien147 View Post
I ain't gonna change anything but I am just curious.
Smooth motion blurs slightly the whole image,right?
For example does NGU still looks like NGU with smooth motion enabled or it looks like a lower quality upscaler?
No, you still get your money's worth , it will just look slightly more blurry because interframes are blended.

It smooths out judder for people who are very bothered by judder.

I personally don't mind judder, because heck 24fps itself is almost a slideshow, why bother with judder removal.
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Old 24th February 2019, 15:24   #54960  |  Link
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go to zoom control and read the first line...
Does this continue to crop horizontal but not vertical ?
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