Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Capturing and Editing Video > Avisynth Usage

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 15th February 2019, 20:50   #1081  |  Link
videoFred
Registered User
 
videoFred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Terneuzen, Zeeland, the Netherlands, Europe, Earth, Milky Way,Universe
Posts: 689
Quote:
Originally Posted by sys32768 View Post
OK I dropped a 15s AVI here of the parade. There's also a .MOV from the same transfer company of another short reel:

https://1drv.ms/f/s!AkeySxbVM_V_lJs69EQAB9p_3huXjQ
On the parade file, it looks like there is a dropped frame between 24 and 25 and another one between 92 and 93.

On the MOV file, dropped frames between 624-625 and between 1142-1143.

Fred.
__________________
About 8mm film:
http://www.super-8.be
Film Transfer Tutorial and example clips:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4QBsWXKuV8
More Example clips:
http://www.vimeo.com/user678523/videos/sort:newest
videoFred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th February 2019, 20:55   #1082  |  Link
sys32768
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by videoFred View Post
On the parade file, it looks like there is a dropped frame between 24 and 25 and another one between 92 and 93.

On the MOV file, dropped frames between 624-625 and between 1142-1143.

Fred.
Thanks for checking. Sadly I cannot afford another transfer of these reels right now.

What processes do the dropped frames interfere with most? I assume blending and interpolation?
sys32768 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th February 2019, 02:06   #1083  |  Link
johnmeyer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: California
Posts: 2,691
You can fix the drops, almost perfectly in most cases, using the same motion estimation technology that you want to use to go from 16 to 32 fps. Here's a video of some film I transferred where the film was "losing the loop", but inside the camera when it was filmed, and not in the projector. Thus, the problem was in the film itself.

Restoration of Jumpy Film

To fix it, I created a duplicate of the previous frame at each jump, replacing the jump with the dup. I have a Vegas script that does this with one button push. I then used the Filldrops() script that you can easily find on this forum. It looks for duplicates and replaces one of the dups with a motion estimated frame created from surrounding frames. As you can see from my video example, it worked perfectly. I always wish I'd used the film tens seconds later when the truck drives away, because it too came out perfectly and it is much more impressive to see the jumps removed when there is motion in the frame.

If you don't do this fix before you apply Fred's script, it won't make a huge difference, because you don't have anything like the number of bad (missing, in your case) frames as in my sample above. However, the noise reduction and deshaking will be slightly degraded at the points where there is a bigger temporal gap than there should be. The biggest problem will be when you try to interpolate frames to go from 16 to 32 fps.

As you know, you can get occasional horrible artifacts using this technology. You get these far more often with low frame rates because the algorithms have a harder and harder time figuring out how to plug those big gaps in time. If you think about it, if your video was 1 fps, and you wanted to go to 30 fps, and it was a video of someone bouncing on a trampoline, how can the algorithms know what to do? In my experience, it isn't until you get to about 24 fps (sound film) that you start to get pretty good results with interpolating between frames using motion estimation.

For an example of what happens with really low frame rate material, here is a unique video, only available (AFAIK) on a 1992 CD-ROM disc, which was released just as digital video was first starting. The original was only 160x120 pixels, 12 frames per second, so I had spatial as well as temporal challenges. If you search this forum for "celestial," and use my user name, you'll find the post where I asked for help, and see examples of what I started with.

Celestial Navigations: Horses (Storytelling At Its Best)
johnmeyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th February 2019, 12:32   #1084  |  Link
StainlessS
HeartlessS Usurer
 
StainlessS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Over the rainbow
Posts: 10,980
Did not find "Celestial" by "JohnMeyer" in D9 search.

Google nails it, 3 links (but two are the same thread)
Code:
"Celestial" NEAR "JohnMeyer" site:forum.doom9.org
https://www.google.co.uk/search?sour...21.AHNGvFGtHaQ



https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=173407

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=163014
__________________
I sometimes post sober.
StainlessS@MediaFire ::: AND/OR ::: StainlessS@SendSpace

"Some infinities are bigger than other infinities", but how many of them are infinitely bigger ???
StainlessS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th February 2019, 13:40   #1085  |  Link
johnmeyer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: California
Posts: 2,691
The doom9.org search just worked for me. I entered "johnmeyer" under "search by user name" and "celestial" for the keyword, and "search entire posts". I got both of those links you posted.
johnmeyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th February 2019, 13:47   #1086  |  Link
StainlessS
HeartlessS Usurer
 
StainlessS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Over the rainbow
Posts: 10,980
Oops, damn you're right, I think I started with search titles only, and forgot to change when failed.
__________________
I sometimes post sober.
StainlessS@MediaFire ::: AND/OR ::: StainlessS@SendSpace

"Some infinities are bigger than other infinities", but how many of them are infinitely bigger ???
StainlessS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd March 2019, 09:16   #1087  |  Link
JackBenRiach
Registered User
 
JackBenRiach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 1
How to Restoring a Movie If You Have a Picture in It:



Thanks for the help.
JackBenRiach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd March 2019, 10:04   #1088  |  Link
manono
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 7,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBenRiach View Post
How to Restoring a Movie If You Have a Picture in It:
It's a little unclear what you're asking. However, when I have a bunch of static images (credits for a movie, for example), I'll extract one of the frames, fix it in a photo editor, followed by replacing all of the frames with the one I fixed. Or, if out of the whole range there's a good frame already, then use the FreezeFrame command to replace them all with the good one.

The command is written like so:

FreezeFrame(FirstFrame,LastFrame,GoodFrame)

And the entire range gets replaced with the good frame.
manono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd March 2019, 11:21   #1089  |  Link
videoFred
Registered User
 
videoFred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Terneuzen, Zeeland, the Netherlands, Europe, Earth, Milky Way,Universe
Posts: 689
I agree with Manono, I often do the same. Not with Avisynth but with my NLE. But the principle is the same.

Fred.
__________________
About 8mm film:
http://www.super-8.be
Film Transfer Tutorial and example clips:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4QBsWXKuV8
More Example clips:
http://www.vimeo.com/user678523/videos/sort:newest
videoFred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd March 2019, 16:04   #1090  |  Link
johnmeyer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: California
Posts: 2,691
I got nothing but porn at that photo hosting site when I clicked on the link. Was this a legit question from this first-time poster, or was it spam?
johnmeyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd March 2019, 16:11   #1091  |  Link
videoFred
Registered User
 
videoFred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Terneuzen, Zeeland, the Netherlands, Europe, Earth, Milky Way,Universe
Posts: 689
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmeyer View Post
I got nothing but porn at that photo hosting site when I clicked on the link. Was this a legit question from this first-time poster, or was it spam?
He's OK.
I see the film frame, no porn

Fred.
__________________
About 8mm film:
http://www.super-8.be
Film Transfer Tutorial and example clips:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4QBsWXKuV8
More Example clips:
http://www.vimeo.com/user678523/videos/sort:newest
videoFred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd March 2019, 16:13   #1092  |  Link
StainlessS
HeartlessS Usurer
 
StainlessS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Over the rainbow
Posts: 10,980
He's possibly not aware of it, I just went there (with great expectation) and saw nothing but a bigger version of the thumbnail, I gots my ad-block on.
EDIT: And so does Fred it seems.
__________________
I sometimes post sober.
StainlessS@MediaFire ::: AND/OR ::: StainlessS@SendSpace

"Some infinities are bigger than other infinities", but how many of them are infinitely bigger ???
StainlessS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd March 2019, 16:27   #1093  |  Link
videoFred
Registered User
 
videoFred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Terneuzen, Zeeland, the Netherlands, Europe, Earth, Milky Way,Universe
Posts: 689
Quote:
Originally Posted by StainlessS View Post
with great expectation
Haha you can always set your ad-block off

Fred
__________________
About 8mm film:
http://www.super-8.be
Film Transfer Tutorial and example clips:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4QBsWXKuV8
More Example clips:
http://www.vimeo.com/user678523/videos/sort:newest
videoFred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th May 2019, 14:29   #1094  |  Link
SnillorZ
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Lake District UK
Posts: 48
Inspiration thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmeyer View Post
I created my own branch of Fred's script and posted it many years ago. However, like Fred, I haven't tried to post all my changes and updates because I don't have time to support it when people ask questions.

With that as preface, here is what I am using. It is not really fit for publication (i.e., not many comments on the new stuff), and there are probably bugs all over the place. However, it works for me.

It will take two posts to get it all.


Firstly want to send many thanks to videoFred, johnmeyer, StainlessS, Jim Battle (amongst others) for some inspirational work here and many other places across T’Internet.

Apologies upfront that this likely to end up a rambling 1st post, sorry for that and so with that said, please can the last one out turn out the lights and shut the door behind them.



I’ve been lurking (stalking people) around this thread and Doom9 for a while now after coming across Jim Battle’s blog posts on 8mm Telecine project, which eventually lead to VideoFred’s work and here. I must have read most of the #1000+ posts in this thread and have enjoyed reading the backstories to people’s projects as much as I’ve merrily ripped off ideas for my own ends.

Why? Well, I’d finally managed to collect together old family 8mm film (standard & super8) distributed around various members of the family, motivated by mum passing away last year. Most of the footage was shot by dear old dad, some by my brothers and even my much younger self on some of the later stuff. Dad was an enthusiastic (family) cine film maker and reels cover from late 50’s through the 1980’s. Some of the early stuff isn’t great quality but got better over time and as better equipment allowed. About 20+ years ago I had a few reels transferred to VHS, which wasn’t great. It was the usual video camera recorded footage of a screen based projection, from the local camera/film shop, but all I could afford at the time. Some years later I got into DV and did some simple editing, back when (expensive) add-on firewire capture cards were required. Having now seen what can be achieved with current software tools, the 100’s of hours of DV footage shot needs to be revisited, but that’s for another day and thread.

Anyway, I decided that it would be great to get all of the worthwhile 8mm film digitally transferred and post edit myself, create a “feature length” out of it and gather all the family together and hire a local digital cinema for a screening. At this point I have to admit that after a couple too many glasses this all seemed a brilliant idea (in my head at least). So I ended up with around 3000’ of 8/S8 and after looking through all the various posts to gather ideas on what to look for and ask for, got some quotes from a few companies providing the service. Ended up getting a 1:1 frame accurate scans in uncompressed AVI’s from a company using MWA Digital Data Scanners. I did get some samples first to check the results and test with my ideas on workflow. I was happy with the results, but with some hindsight of reviewing all the scanned footage, some would have benefited from a wetgate but I’ll live with the decision not to opt for it.

So after many hours of researching AviSynth, AVSpMod, VirtualDub, AVS plugins, etc, I’ve finally got to a point of a working setup after lots of trial & error, hunting down fixes for:- software error’s / my own mistakes / lack of knowledge. I’ve ended up with VideoFred’s 2012 script / JohnMayers 2012 MT script and John’s 2017 Avisynth+. Whilst both 2012 version scripts work well and are giving good first rough cut results, I really like the enhancements that JohnM made in the newer 2017 version.

This is where I would like to ask for some pointers if I may, as despite trying various thread / maxmemory combinations have hit a bit of a performance wall i.e. I’ve not been able to get it above 0.5 – 1 fps! using VirtualDub2 (or 1).

I’ve replicated the results on a couple of different machines (Win7 64 bit AviSynth+ x86, x86 plugins, Quad i7 CPU 32GB RAM. Win 10 Quad i5 3770 CPU 16GB RAM same software)

Probably missing something obvious, but any help would be most appreciated. Also, typically do you run all of the script enhancements in a single pass or multiple runs (are there any penalties for multi)? I realise that this will vary from scene to scene and some will require different/special handling, but in general what have you found is a typical workflow?
e.g. Source>NLE review/cuts>AviSynth processing >NLE?

Apologies again for the long post (for those still awake at this point).
Attached Files
File Type: txt VidFred_Script1.0b_2012.txt (11.7 KB, 126 views)
File Type: txt John_Meyer_Script for MT_2012.txt (15.6 KB, 132 views)
File Type: txt John_Meyer_Script2017.txt (18.2 KB, 258 views)
SnillorZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th May 2019, 22:55   #1095  |  Link
johnmeyer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: California
Posts: 2,691
The first and most important determinant of performance is the size of your scans. What resolution did your transfer service provide? You might do a test where you compare the quality of what you get from your 1 fps current result with what you get when you scale the video down to something closer to SD resolution. You get very little, if any, benefit from HD resolution with 8mm film, and only a little with Super 8.

Second, you have to be using multi-threading to get more than 1 fps. How this is done depends on the version of AVISynth you are using.

Third, you should turn do your initial work with GamMac turned off (if you are using my latest script) and only do the basic dirt/motion/grain enhancements by specifying option "4". GamMac will slow things down a bit.

Finally, make sure you haven't change DCT in the MVTools2 calls. If it is set to anything other than DCT=0, things can get slow. DCT=1 can do wonders for removing flicker, but I generally don't use it.

There are probably a few other things you can do, but I don't have the time now to write more.
johnmeyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2019, 15:03   #1096  |  Link
SnillorZ
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Lake District UK
Posts: 48
johnmeyer script 2017 Avisynth+ fps

John, appreciate you taking the time to reply

So:

1) scans supplied full HD 1920x1080, I'm cropping off black borders (208px L&R) for the depan / stabilise etc and was reducing to 720.

2) Using AVIsynth+ x86 v0.1 r2772 MT, with these from your 2017 script:
#NUMBER OF THREADS
threads=2

#Enable MT! with #Prefetch(No of threads)
Prefetch(2)

4) Yes all the DCT parameters in the script for Denoise are unchanged at 0

3) So reducing to 576 and running Result4 gets me a marginal gain (top 1.3fps) its still around 40+minutes for 50'. Which while not show stopping, I want to check expectations?

P.S. I've also tried Threads 3 & 4 - 3 increases fps again marginally but in the few test runs I've tried hangs VirtualDub2 a few dozen frames in. 4 threads is unstable in my setup and produces memory leaks and crash.

Again really appreciate the time taken to give pointers.
SnillorZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2019, 19:22   #1097  |  Link
johnmeyer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: California
Posts: 2,691
Gosh, with SD resolution I get over 10 fps on my 12-year old 3 GHz i7 computer. Not sure what else to suggest.
johnmeyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th May 2019, 04:13   #1098  |  Link
Boulder
Pig on the wing
 
Boulder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Finland
Posts: 5,718
Why not set the number of threads to 4 (or 8 if your CPU supports hyperthreading)? I don't know if the necessary plugins have 64-bit builds, but using an x64 version of Avisynth+ should help as well.
__________________
And if the band you're in starts playing different tunes
I'll see you on the dark side of the Moon...
Boulder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th May 2019, 04:53   #1099  |  Link
johnmeyer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: California
Posts: 2,691
I'm pretty sure quite a few of the plugins will not be happy with AVISynth x64. Also, I doubt that x64 will provide any speed improvement although, since some of the stability problems are related to memory issues, x64 might provide a little more room.

I think the OP said he had stability problems when he increased threads beyond two.
johnmeyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th May 2019, 09:27   #1100  |  Link
pinterf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,309
Regarding plugins that can be used for film restoring there have been two updates lately

RemoveDirt update, now we have an x64 version of RestoreMotionBlocks. (That was the last missing chain for me for a full x64 workflow)

And made DepanStabilize to work with RGB clips (RGB means: planar RGB format of Avisynth+). Motion vectors can be generated from a converted YUV clip, and one can apply stabilization on the original RGB clip. Conversion between planar RGB and RGB24, RGB32 and RGB64 is lossless in Avs+, is is not drawback of using planar RGB.
pinterf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:35.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.