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Old 16th March 2013, 17:07   #1041  |  Link
brunchto
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no changes... but i have tested something. from my ISO image (full rip), i've made a full backup with BDRB to a new ISO. if i mount this ISO, then use BDRB, then i can select angles and make a movie only backup with the right angle.
I've tested with ice age 3. Can you try this with ice age 4?
update:
i've tried with StarWars. Previously,I was unable to select angle (french scrolling title). I've made a temporaty ISO in QuickPlay backup. With this new ISO, angle selection works fine... really strange isn't it?
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Old 17th March 2013, 00:57   #1042  |  Link
colinhunt
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Now, I know this is like asking for the moon from the sky... but I sure would love to see BD-RB do movie-only BD3D backups from Blu-ray 3Ds. It would have to output an .ISO image with an interleaved file system, of course, which is another big task in itself.

Last edited by colinhunt; 17th March 2013 at 01:01.
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Old 17th March 2013, 00:59   #1043  |  Link
colinhunt
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Originally Posted by setarip_old View Post
Granted, the current versions of glasses and hardware (passive or active) are an improvement but, in my opinion represent something that the world can do without - until a 3D system that doesn't require glasses becomes the norm...
Well, I wholeheartedly disagree with that notion.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 18:33   #1044  |  Link
jdobbs
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Originally Posted by colinhunt View Post
Now, I know this is like asking for the moon from the sky... but I sure would love to see BD-RB do movie-only BD3D backups from Blu-ray 3Ds. It would have to output an .ISO image with an interleaved file system, of course, which is another big task in itself.
That's not likely to happen until ImgBurn or another package provides a way to output a structure in which two files can point to the same sector. There also is no freeware MVC encoder of which I'm aware.
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Old 23rd March 2013, 22:09   #1045  |  Link
colinhunt
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Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
That's not likely to happen until ImgBurn or another package provides a way to output a structure in which two files can point to the same sector. There also is no freeware MVC encoder of which I'm aware.
Yeah, outputting interleaved file system is a problem, but I thought x264 does 3D these days. I was reading about a parameter in x264 Wiki and noticed something about frame-packing and 3D. x264 --fullhelp gave me this:

--frame-packing <integer> For stereoscopic videos define frame arrangement
- 0: checkerboard - pixels are alternatively from L and R
- 1: column alternation - L and R are interlaced by column
- 2: row alternation - L and R are interlaced by row
- 3: side by side - L is on the left, R on the right
- 4: top bottom - L is on top, R on bottom
- 5: frame alternation - one view per frame

Although... I don't think any of those are the same arrangement as on a Blu-ray 3D disc. Hmph.
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Old 24th March 2013, 00:32   #1046  |  Link
jdobbs
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Originally Posted by colinhunt View Post
Yeah, outputting interleaved file system is a problem, but I thought x264 does 3D these days. I was reading about a parameter in x264 Wiki and noticed something about frame-packing and 3D. x264 --fullhelp gave me this:

--frame-packing <integer> For stereoscopic videos define frame arrangement
- 0: checkerboard - pixels are alternatively from L and R
- 1: column alternation - L and R are interlaced by column
- 2: row alternation - L and R are interlaced by row
- 3: side by side - L is on the left, R on the right
- 4: top bottom - L is on top, R on bottom
- 5: frame alternation - one view per frame

Although... I don't think any of those are the same arrangement as on a Blu-ray 3D disc. Hmph.
I've been doing a lot of reading on this topic. Frame packing is a requirement of the HDMI 1.4 standard... so a device that supports it should accept it, and it allows full resolution 3D (as opposed to SBS which halves the horizontal resolution). The question is "how do I get the frame-packed signal to the TV", since I don't think most BD players will accept it -- but I'm researching that as well.

Another question I'm asking myself: DirecTV sends a SBS picture to its box, and my Samsung 3D monitor automatically recognizes it and switches into SBS 3D mode. When using my BD player with SBS I have to switch it to SBS mode manually. That means there has to be a way to flag it in the stream... I'd like to find out how.

[Note] HDMI 1.4 frame-packing requires support for top-and-bottom packing, but side-by-side full resolution frame packing apparently isn't required. That link also indicates that, while stored as MVC on the disc, Blu-Ray players actually reorder the decoded frames into top-and-bottom frame pack format when they present it to the TV/monitor.
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Last edited by jdobbs; 24th March 2013 at 01:51.
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Old 24th March 2013, 00:38   #1047  |  Link
Ch3vr0n
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why don't you ask the folks at DirecTV, say you're a subscriber to there services and a software dev and you noticed that SBS behavior and wonder what the flag is to have it autorecognise the SBS mode. Can't hurt to ask.
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Old 24th March 2013, 00:40   #1048  |  Link
Nico8583
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Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
Another question I'm asking myself: DirecTV sends a SBS picture to its box, and my Samsung 3D monitor automatically recognizes it and switches into SBS 3D mode. When using my BD player with SBS I have to switch it to SBS mode manually. That means there has to be a way to flag it in the stream... I'd like to find out how.
MVC Player Free from frencher can do that, perhaps ask him how he proceeds...
Quote:
# Added: Auto-switch of some compatible 3D TV (SBS an UO)
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...69#post1620569
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Old 24th March 2013, 00:42   #1049  |  Link
jdobbs
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why don't you ask the folks at DirecTV, say you're a subscriber to there services and a software dev and you noticed that SBS behavior and wonder what the flag is to have it autorecognise the SBS mode. Can't hurt to ask.
Yeah... that's an idea, and I am a subscriber. I just thought about it, and it's also possible that their box is actually catching the SBS and converting it for output before it hits the TV. For all I know it might be frame-packed on output from the box.
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Old 24th March 2013, 09:47   #1050  |  Link
KarstenS
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Originally Posted by colinhunt View Post

--frame-packing <integer> For stereoscopic videos define frame arrangement
- 0: checkerboard - pixels are alternatively from L and R
- 1: column alternation - L and R are interlaced by column
- 2: row alternation - L and R are interlaced by row
- 3: side by side - L is on the left, R on the right
- 4: top bottom - L is on top, R on bottom
- 5: frame alternation - one view per frame

Although... I don't think any of those are the same arrangement as on a Blu-ray 3D disc. Hmph.
None of these options give us the output we would need for a real 3D disk. They all are alternative way for 3D movies, but they all have the same issue: they put both angles into one frame, what causes lower resolution and they will not natively get the TV into 3D mode automatically.

If someone want to create and analyze a real "movie only" 3D disc, then download the trial of DVD Architect Pro. With this software it is possible as I've seen.
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Old 24th March 2013, 14:00   #1051  |  Link
colinhunt
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Originally Posted by KarstenS View Post
None of these options give us the output we would need for a real 3D disk. They all are alternative way for 3D movies, but they all have the same issue: they put both angles into one frame, what causes lower resolution and they will not natively get the TV into 3D mode automatically.
Yeah, I realized when typing the post that some of those formats pack both views into a single frame, thus losing half of the resolution. Useless, in other words. And the ones that don't are not compatible with BD3D.

Quote:
If someone want to create and analyze a real "movie only" 3D disc, then download the trial of DVD Architect Pro. With this software it is possible as I've seen.
I have it and have created 3D Blu-rays of my own footage with Sony Vegas Pro 12 (which is way too buggy for any serious work, IMHO).

Last edited by colinhunt; 24th March 2013 at 14:40.
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Old 24th March 2013, 14:12   #1052  |  Link
colinhunt
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Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
HDMI 1.4 frame-packing requires support for top-and-bottom packing, but side-by-side full resolution frame packing apparently isn't required. That link also indicates that, while stored as MVC on the disc, Blu-Ray players actually reorder the decoded frames into top-and-bottom frame pack format when they present it to the TV/monitor.
Indeed. The player reads both the base stream (AVC) and dependent stream (MVC) from disc, gets L and R views from those and arranges the views into a single large frame (1920x2205 with 45 pixels of space between the views). Those frames are then transmitted to the display at ~24fps. Signaling tells the display it's receiving frame-packed 3D so it knows how to process the frames.

PlayStation 3 does not have the hardware for this so Sony engineers created similar functionality in software, and PS3 is powerful enough to pull it off. The software solution even lets them overcome the problem of PS3's HDMI 1.2/1.3 transmitters that lack the 3D features of HDMI 1.4 transmitter chips.
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Old 24th March 2013, 14:33   #1053  |  Link
jdobbs
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Originally Posted by KarstenS View Post
None of these options give us the output we would need for a real 3D disk. They all are alternative way for 3D movies, but they all have the same issue: they put both angles into one frame, what causes lower resolution and they will not natively get the TV into 3D mode automatically.

If someone want to create and analyze a real "movie only" 3D disc, then download the trial of DVD Architect Pro. With this software it is possible as I've seen.
Actually you have it backwards. Give the X264 team the credit they deserve. These formats are the actual standard for presentation of 3D. MVC is just a way that Blu-Ray decided to implement it on their disc (probably to save space), but they have to be converted for playback. The blu-ray player has to reassemble the decoded picture into one of these formats (top-and-bottom frame packed) in order to present it to the monitor over HDMI. The monitor then internally converts it to frame sequential for display. None of these formats necessarily lower resolution: for example, the over-and-under is two full 1920x1080 pictures contained in one frame, and I don't believe frame alternation puts two pictures in one frame -- it uses full pictures (with double the frame rate) that have alternating L/R views.
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Last edited by jdobbs; 24th March 2013 at 14:37.
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Old 24th March 2013, 16:33   #1054  |  Link
Sharc
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.... MVC is just a way that Blu-Ray decided to implement it on their disc (probably to save space), ...
... and probably to enable backwards playback compatibility: MVC 3D blu-rays can basically be played on legacy 2D blu-ray devices because one of the .m2ts streams is a standard 2D (left-eye) stream with full audio and subs.
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Old 24th March 2013, 17:00   #1055  |  Link
jdobbs
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... and probably to enable backwards playback compatibility: MVC 3D blu-rays can basically be played on legacy 2D blu-ray devices because one of the .m2ts streams is a standard 2D (left-eye) stream with full audio and subs.
Sounds right...
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Old 24th March 2013, 17:19   #1056  |  Link
colinhunt
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... and probably to enable backwards playback compatibility: MVC 3D blu-rays can basically be played on legacy 2D blu-ray devices because one of the .m2ts streams is a standard 2D (left-eye) stream with full audio and subs.
Yeah - except when some dumbass Hollywood studio mid-level exec decides that they just have to sell the consumer both 3D-only and 2D-only versions of the Blu-ray in the same box. Hence Blu-ray 3Ds that have been programmed to work only on Blu-ray 3D players, even though the 2D stream would work perfectly well on 2D devices.
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Old 25th March 2013, 13:22   #1057  |  Link
Nico8583
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Originally Posted by brunchto View Post
update:
i've tried with StarWars. Previously,I was unable to select angle (french scrolling title). I've made a temporaty ISO in QuickPlay backup. With this new ISO, angle selection works fine... really strange isn't it?
No changes with new full ISO created with BD-RB, I see 2 angles only...
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Old 26th March 2013, 18:10   #1058  |  Link
richardrpg
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@jdobbs
Glad to see you are considering to add a 3D sbs option to bdRebuilder. I've been having to use other software to encode my 3D Blu-Rays into sbs MKV files and every time I watch the resultant MKV I always wish that you would add this option to bdRebuilder so that I can have the same great picture quality that I always get from normal 2D encodes using bdRebuilder. Other software just cant come close to yours.
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Old 26th March 2013, 20:51   #1059  |  Link
jdobbs
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@jdobbs
Glad to see you are considering to add a 3D sbs option to bdRebuilder. I've been having to use other software to encode my 3D Blu-Rays into sbs MKV files and every time I watch the resultant MKV I always wish that you would add this option to bdRebuilder so that I can have the same great picture quality that I always get from normal 2D encodes using bdRebuilder. Other software just cant come close to yours.
Thanks. I'll probably add it as a movie-only option first, and then add full 3D SBS backup later.
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Old 26th March 2013, 21:02   #1060  |  Link
Ch3vr0n
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so BDRB would be able to backup 3D only or 2D/3D hybrid discs by converting to SBS ?
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