Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion. Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules. |
3rd February 2019, 14:28 | #54561 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 714
|
Quote:
I noticed going through dispcal, the calibration for rec2020 will not slot into the normal calibration page, and only works for the hdr tone-map page.
__________________
Ghetto | 2500k 5Ghz |
|
3rd February 2019, 17:23 | #54562 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,127
|
Quote:
Brightening the PQ curve does come with drawbacks. All HDR video games include a brightness slider to increase the brightness of HDR games. However, this raises the value for reference white, which comes at the expense of making the blacks more grey in dark scenes. The 2017 LG OLEDs suffered from this issue, which was corrected in the 2018 models. I don't know if the 2018 models are doing any other manipulation of the PQ curve, but it doesn't really make sense to have a dynamic tone curve that is constantly fluctuating above and below the PQ curve without distorting the image. Samsung uses a static curve with its QLEDs, but it is either rising from black more slowly or compensating for the brighter 0-100 nits by using more aggressive local dimming. I'm sure even Samsung will do away with this when dynamic tone mapping is added. You don't really want to brighten images with absolute brightness values because the image can become washed out if pushed too far.
__________________
HOW TO - Set up madVR for Kodi DSPlayer & External Media Players Last edited by Warner306; 3rd February 2019 at 17:28. |
|
3rd February 2019, 17:27 | #54563 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,127
|
You can create an SDR 3D LUT if you output in an SDR format. But you can't use a 3D LUT with pixel shader when outputting in an HDR format. You would have to choose to tone map by 3D LUT and make a few static tone curves: 500 nits, 1,000 nits, 1,500 nits and 4,000 nits to replace the display's internal static curves. This could be accomplished with a few profile rules under hdr.
__________________
HOW TO - Set up madVR for Kodi DSPlayer & External Media Players |
3rd February 2019, 19:09 | #54564 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 235
|
Hi folks,
Will madvr support HDR10+ dynamic metadata decode or passthrough? Thanks
__________________
__________________ System: Intel Core i5-6500, 16GB RAM, GTX1060, 75" Sony ZD9, Focal speakers, OS Win10 Pro, Playback: madvr/JRiver |
3rd February 2019, 22:05 | #54565 | Link | ||
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 323
|
Quote:
Quote:
If I'm not wrong, both SMPTE ST 2094-10 (Dolby Vision) and SMPTE ST 2094-40 (HDR10+) curves change dynamically the knee point in a similar way that what Soulnight's utility with dynamic target nits is doing now with the BT.2390 EETF. Last edited by Alexkral; 3rd February 2019 at 22:10. |
||
3rd February 2019, 22:37 | #54566 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 714
|
Quote:
Do you know if this feature will be added in the future ? Seems to be straightforward, is there a specific hitch that it's not already possible ?
__________________
Ghetto | 2500k 5Ghz |
|
3rd February 2019, 23:05 | #54567 | Link |
X Cinema Projectionist NZ
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Auckland NZ
Posts: 310
|
Ive tried error diffusion 1 and 2 for dithering in madvr and I cant see any obvious differance between them. Im upscaling BDs to 4K and displaying on a large 145" curved screen with a JVC NX9 4K projector. Since I dont know which is best as I see nothing, which might be the prefered option in my case producing the less artifacts? Thanks in advance...
|
4th February 2019, 00:05 | #54570 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 5,351
|
He's not saying it is. But if you don't SEE a difference, there is a HUGE difference in performance between ordered and error diffusion and there's no sense killing performance for something you can't see.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 11, AMD 5900X, RTX 3080, Pioneer Elite VSX-LX303, LG G2 77" OLED |
4th February 2019, 00:09 | #54571 | Link |
X Cinema Projectionist NZ
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Auckland NZ
Posts: 310
|
Ok thank you I understand, however that isnt an issue with me anyway as I have the 1080Ti card and using the highest NGU settings upscaling everything to 4K. My rendering hardly ever goes above 20 and I have no dropped or repeated frames for days/ever.
Last edited by 70MM; 4th February 2019 at 00:13. |
4th February 2019, 00:27 | #54572 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 714
|
Quote:
For chroma, dithering, etc, the differences are really only visible if you walk in real close, or zoom in. The sharpening algorithms are also very visible, but they're taste-based, and not a better or worse situation. LOOKING FOR a difference is mostly academic, because you simply wouldn't notice much of it while a movie plays. If knowing it's there helps you sleep at night or justify equipment purchases, then Zoom in, squint real hard, the little hairs on people's faces will look just a tad sharper.
__________________
Ghetto | 2500k 5Ghz |
|
4th February 2019, 07:48 | #54574 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 4,407
|
Error diffusion is a tiny bit sharper and more random while ordered dithering has the lowest apparent noise. All three options are very good, I think I prefer ordered dithering on my 55" OLED TV while I like ED 1 or 2 on my LCD monitors, but the differences are also very subtle. Ordered is a great option because it is so high quality while also being fast.
__________________
madVR options explained |
4th February 2019, 16:47 | #54575 | Link | ||
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,127
|
Quote:
Displays could at least have a standard brightness slider like video games to make HDR a little brighter during the daytime, even if raised the bottom of the image a little. Quote:
Soulnight's tool increases or decreases the target nits. Increasing the target nits raises the knee point further up the PQ curve to reduce compression, but it also changes the absolute brightness of all values relative to the output display. For example, if the display is 100 nits, selecting 200 nits will lead to a loss of more or less half of the calculated brightness of the tone mapped values because the target display is assumed to be twice as bright as the actual output display. The gamma curve is relative, so the output brightness isn't always that precise, but it is close. When the target nits is higher, the pixel values are more spread out, but they use more of the lower region of the gamma curve to handle the majority of the pixels 0-100 nits. The pixels that represent the highlights are separated to the brightest end of the gamma curve. So the image has more contrast between bright and dark detail and looks less flat because the pixels are less compressed, but the overall image ends up darker.
__________________
HOW TO - Set up madVR for Kodi DSPlayer & External Media Players Last edited by Warner306; 4th February 2019 at 16:49. |
||
4th February 2019, 20:42 | #54576 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 714
|
Quote:
I noticed that calibrating to 2.2/2.4 (relative) gamma on LCD is much more similar in appearance to 2.2/2.4 (absolute) gamma (1886) on CRT/Plasma/OLED, vs using absolute gamma (1886) on LCD which makes everything greyish. So, the near crush dark tones when using relative gamma on LCD is probably Correct. It's just more crush like in home environments where the room light is on. The moral of the story is, it's suppose to look like that, just turn the lights off.
__________________
Ghetto | 2500k 5Ghz Last edited by tp4tissue; 4th February 2019 at 20:46. |
|
4th February 2019, 23:14 | #54578 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 714
|
Weird Gamut behavior.
So on my ATI card, my spare bedroom tv reports a slightly wider Gamut +10% vs my Nvidia Card. Is it because the Nvidia card is using the alpha channels differently ? Does madvr use alpha channels in output or only 24bit.
__________________
Ghetto | 2500k 5Ghz |
4th February 2019, 23:16 | #54579 | Link |
Registered Developer
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg/Germany
Posts: 10,348
|
There is no alpha channel on the output. Different results might be up to dithering.
__________________
LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders |
4th February 2019, 23:33 | #54580 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 714
|
Quote:
I guess that must be the tv's gamut clamping software intervening with the nvidia output. Is there a fundamental output difference between ATI and Nvidia, some sort of flags ?? Because both these cards are setup for 8bit rgb, yet the ATI results in the +10% , quite large a swing.
__________________
Ghetto | 2500k 5Ghz |
|
Tags |
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
|
|