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Old 3rd February 2020, 01:28   #58481  |  Link
SamuriHL
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Guess I should just turn off my OLED and wait for some future technology to come out so I can watch movies and TV again. LMAO As I've said before, once your future tech is ready to be purchased and bugs worked out (i.e. NOT first gen tech), I'll be ready to replace my OLED. Those of us coming from plasma already know the "rules" so it's not exactly difficult.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 06:52   #58482  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
You'll very quickly realize how batshit crazy you are for having owned an oled to begin with.
Looking at top end consumer screens every day and can tell you anyone with an OLED that has zero issues with it (the majority of owners) are very happy indeed.
Spotting an OLED apart from any other screen is typically child's play and the reason being that just look that much better than most other screens available.
I never once regretted any of my plasmas (owned about four of five models over the years) and I'm very much enjoying the crazy clarity of my OLED.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 08:59   #58483  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
Viewing angles are still a problem for VA panels. Every few months I visit a store to look at the sets, and I am still able to guess which sets are LCD without looking at the stickers just by the colour shift in dark areas. And the bigger the screen the more obvious the issue, I don't even have to be off-center to see it on the edges.madVR doesn't support HDR10+, so its own dynamic tone mapping is all it can use, and yes, its goal is to approach the same quality as HDR10+ with just HDR10 and scene+frame analysis. Explaining all the details of how it works is too complicated for me. That's correct. You also have to specify your display's actual peak brightness. For some displays, if you want to totally avoid their own tone mapping you have to specify a lower value that depends on the display's internal processing setup (those values can sometimes be found on model-specific forum threads).madVR uses metadata to detect that a source is HDR. Theoretically, madVR's dynamic tonemapping could work even without metadata if you inform it manually that the source is HDR and inform it of the colour space, as it analyses the frames to measure all the values it needs, but I haven't tested it.
Thanks for your explanation!
but where found display's actual peak brightness ? I specify 100nits for my non-hdr screen (samsung ue50h6400). it's correct ?
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Old 3rd February 2020, 10:50   #58484  |  Link
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What's correct really is what looks best to you and what your TV is set/calibrated to. 100 seems like it would be a bit too low, your TV can hit about 300 nits.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 11:41   #58485  |  Link
solidservo
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I use Kodi Dsplayer with MadVR and I am very happy with it!

There is just one thing that bugs me and that is that I can't get MadVR to use "NV, HDR, 10bit" - it always uses "NV, HDR, 8bit" (the TV switches to HDR10 though according to the onscreen overlay on my Samsung QE65Q9FNATXZG).

HDR pass-through is enabled inside MadVR and the native color depth of the TV is set to "10bit or higher" in MadVR.

https://i.imgur.com/iUzP966.jpg

If I enabled HDR inside windows 10 then mad VR uses "OS HDR 12 bit"

GPU is an RTX 2060, Windows 10 64bit pro.

What am I doing wrong?

Last edited by solidservo; 3rd February 2020 at 12:56.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 12:25   #58486  |  Link
madjock
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"What am I doing wrong?"

Well not using search , but the gist is its fine at 8 bit due to madVRs dithering. There are a million threads on this thread about it.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 12:26   #58487  |  Link
mclingo
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Hi, yeah KODI Ds is fantastic isnt it.

The answer for this is probably better coming from an NVIDIA user, there are some issues with driver versions and the ability to select bit rates and create custom resolutions. However, many people on here would just say dont bother mate leave it, 8bit dithered is indisinguishable from 10bit, you're not missing anything really, just enjoy your movie and forget about it
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Old 3rd February 2020, 12:32   #58488  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Perfect blacks? Well sure, nothing but self-emissive will ever reach 0, but blacks in the range of 0.00003 nits and a static contrast of 1.000.000:1 (1000:1 squared due to two LCD filters) is quite substantial - and with a significantly higher peak brightness then OLED. And no burn-in or ABL.
I'm not sure at all about the ABL part: the Q90R also has it (although not that drastic as on Oleds).

Quote:
Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
Look at it this way, Oled is like a 10/10 girlfriend, that can't cook. LMCL is like a 9/10 girlfriend, that's a pro chef, does the dishes AND gives great massages.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
Cheers but i'll keep my 10/10 girlfreind and just get a takeaway.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
Guess I should just turn off my OLED and wait for some future technology to come out so I can watch movies and TV again. LMAO As I've said before, once your future tech is ready to be purchased and bugs worked out (i.e. NOT first gen tech), I'll be ready to replace my OLED.
This. You can already buy an OLED (for reasonably money) and nothing compares to it today.
Is it without flaws? No, unfortunately (but which one was in the history of displays?):
- mainly the uniformity issues are the problem (possible tinting, near black jail bars), if you are unlucky
- but ABL is and (I think) will be there on every set in the future as well
- burn-in is definitely not an issue if you use it as a TV (tv shows, movies)

As @SamuriHL said, new technologies also will need time to get mature, and only that time we will see whether they're good enough compared to Oleds!

One thing is for sure: this is the best display tech so far for TV usage. And who knows, maybe it will always be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Spotting an OLED apart from any other screen is typically child's play and the reason being that just look that much better than most other screens available.
The sharpness, hence the resulting contrast, that individual pixels can achieve is unbeatable. That's the best thing for me, not the perfect black.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 12:53   #58489  |  Link
solidservo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madjock View Post
Well not using search , but the gist is its fine at 8 bit due to madVRs dithering. There are a million threads on this thread about it.


In the threads I found madshi talked about MadVR using a "hidden nvidia API" to switch the output from 8bit to 10bit when HDR content is played.

To me that sounded like in my case it should be possible to get "NV, HDR, 10bit" when I play 23/24Hz content.

I can select 10bit inside the nvcpl for 4k@23/24/30hz, but as soon as MadVR starts the playback it seems to do a resolution/color depth switch and then it uses 8bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
However, many people on here would just say dont bother mate leave it, 8bit dithered is indisinguishable from 10bit, you're not missing anything really, just enjoy your movie and forget about it
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Old 3rd February 2020, 15:06   #58490  |  Link
madjock
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Just search "10 bit dithering" in this thread, and read for the next 2 years.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 18:46   #58491  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
It depends if you're using the same calibration for both, and which device you're using.

Unfortunately the rs600 on its own is unable to detect SDR BT2020 vs rec-709 and switch automatically between a rec-709 and a BT2020 calibration. It's only able to detect HDR10 and apply its awful gamma D curve, which you definitely don't want.

So you have three ways to use madVR to automatically display the content correctly:

1) You're using an SDR BT2020 calibration for all content. This means that unless you need your iris fully open even for SDR content, you are most likely sacrificing black floor / contrast in SDR rec-709 to privilege brightness in HDR, running all with the iris fully open and using the P3 filter to get a wide gamut. In that case, assuming your two 3D LUTs use this same BT2020 baseline, madVR can switch between each LUT automatically. If you don't want to use the LUT anymore, simply specify "this display is already calibrated to"in the calibration tab, and specify SDR BT2020 and whichever gamma you've used in your calibration (usually 2.4, but it can be anything, as long as your target for the 3D LUT is 2.2 if you're using one for HDR tonemapping, though in that case it's recommended to target P3 rather than BT2020 to avoid posterization). madVR will automatically convert rec-709 content so that it displays correctly with your BT2020 calibration. There is no need for profiles.

2) You're using an SDR Rec709 calibration for all content. This means that you are most likey sacrificing brightness and gamut cover in HDR in order to maximise black floor / native contrast, not using the filter (unless you can't reach 709 wihtout it) and closing the iris further to reach 50/60nits in sdr rec-709 (or brighter if you don't have a dedicated room). If you don't need the 3D LUTs anymore, you simply specify "this display is already calibrated to" and you specify rec-709 and whichever gamma the display is actually calibrated. MadVR will automatically tonemap BT2020 content to fit into your rec-709 calibration. There is no need for profiles.

3) You don't want to compromise either content type, so you have two calibrations on the JVC (rec-709, no filter, iris closed to get best black floor / native contrast and around 50-60nits peak) and SDR BT2020 (2020, P3 filter, iris open to get the highest peak brightness, hence headroom for HDR highlights, at the cost of a higher black floor / reduced native contrast). You will need profiles to tell madVR which calibration you're using for each content type. If you're not using 3D LUTs, you can specify "this display is already calibrated" to either rec-709 or BT2020 using a different profile for each content. In that case, you can either switch manually between the two calibrations on the JVC, or if you have an nVidia GPU and a Vertex/Maestro/Diva you can select the "report BT2020" box in the calibration tab for your BT2020 profile, and make sure it's unchecked in your rec-709 profile. The HD fury device will detect if the content is rec-709 or BT2020 according to the flag, and provided you have installed an rs-232 cable and programmed the device accordingly, it will select the correct calibration automatically, according to content. MadVR will select the correct profile according to content, and will know which calibration you're using thanks to each profile. See here for more info: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post55408090

There are other ways to achieve this using batch files instead of an HD Fury device but they are even more complicated and don't work reliably in my experience.
Thanks for the excellent explanation of the situation. I've chosen option 3 for my calibration and I don't use a Fury. So, I'll just Alt-Tab each time and switch from BT.709 to BT.2020 in madvr. I mostly watch regular Blu-Rays anyhow for the superior blacks.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 22:03   #58492  |  Link
Fandangos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solidservo View Post
To me that sounded like in my case it should be possible to get "NV, HDR, 10bit" when I play 23/24Hz content.
I often work with NVApi and I tried to switch to 10bit output using it.
It won't work, it won't do it: for RGB, for YCbCr yes it is possible using Nvapi.

This is how I did for my Kodi fork:
https://github.com/fandangos/Kodi-HD...8d71c44349R491


But that's not what I came here to ask.

Today I own a 1080Ti, does the 2080Ti offers any improvements on what can be used with Madvr?

I only have problems if everything is set to very high, even luma quadrupling.
So I just wanted to check if anyone with a 2080Ti could tell if there's any change.
And of course I won't buy a 2080Ti just for Madvr, gaming in 4k would be the reason to.
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Old 4th February 2020, 00:57   #58493  |  Link
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someone will have one but they may not have come from a 1080, the usual rule of thumb is to look at the gaming performance of the card, the percentage gap should give you a rough idea how much more you'll get from it in MADVR, hopefully someone will be able to give you a better answer.

Hope you're feeling better by the way
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Old 4th February 2020, 03:03   #58494  |  Link
Fandangos
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Thanks, man I am.

I still need to put life in order after the couple lost days but I am much better, thanks mclingo )
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Old 4th February 2020, 14:35   #58495  |  Link
wilhelm_flint
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New Monitor

Hello Doom9 Forum

I need your help. Can you clever people anwser this question:

I want to buy a new monitor. In the near future i want to start photography and start searching.
Monitors like the Eizo CS2420 ColorEdge got great Picture Quality but is it fast enough for madvr?
Any other displays you can recommend?

Thank you all.

@madvr: I really love Madvr. Fantastic job.
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Old 4th February 2020, 16:08   #58496  |  Link
mclingo
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what do you mean by fast enough?, response times are irrelevant for MADVR and MADVR refresh rate matches, sure this monitor will both 23,976 and 60hz.
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Old 4th February 2020, 16:57   #58497  |  Link
huhn
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professional devices can be to slow for proper motion displaying.

the device in his question has at least 15 ms gtg response times on paper can nearly for sure not do 23p naively so yes i would avoid this one for madVR.
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Old 4th February 2020, 17:32   #58498  |  Link
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@huhn: Thanks for the Feedback. Any alternatives?
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Old 4th February 2020, 17:51   #58499  |  Link
huhn
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sorry nothing i actively look into. if you want a screen with 100% DCI P3 support than you have to take the trades of lower CR and bad motion handling for it a guess.
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Old 4th February 2020, 18:05   #58500  |  Link
Siso
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I'm experiencing delayed frames with image doubling NGU Sharp High on 1.78:1 tv shows and movies. Monitor resolution is 3440x1440p card is gtx 1050 ti. Is it possible that NGU Sharp High is pushing my card to the limit? Rendering times are ~26-28 ms.
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