Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 9th July 2015, 12:33   #31621  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,286
Quote:
Originally Posted by tFWo View Post
My card (270x) never had problems with downclocking.

GPU usage with 13.12 amdocl.dll on that video is constant 71%. Using 15.7 gpu usage is constant 75%. Clocks don't change with both drivers.
It's not a problem, it's a feature :P
Good to know.
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th July 2015, 13:22   #31622  |  Link
Ver Greeneyes
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 445
Quote:
Originally Posted by SithUK View Post
Is there a performance impact from chroma upscaling when watching 1080p at 1080p, ie if there is no upscaling?
Yes, chroma upscaling is needed on all videos where the chroma resolution is lower than the luma resolution, which is pretty much any video you're likely to encounter. Most content uses 4:2:0, which means the chroma content needs to be scaled to twice its original size to match the luma. On 1080p video, this means scaling from 960x540 to 1920x1080.
Ver Greeneyes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th July 2015, 14:47   #31623  |  Link
xabregas
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ver Greeneyes View Post
Yes, chroma upscaling is needed on all videos where the chroma resolution is lower than the luma resolution, which is pretty much any video you're likely to encounter. Most content uses 4:2:0, which means the chroma content needs to be scaled to twice its original size to match the luma. On 1080p video, this means scaling from 960x540 to 1920x1080.

Hmm, thats why i found super-xbr on 1080p videos on 1080p screens better than Jinc for example xD
xabregas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th July 2015, 15:05   #31624  |  Link
chros
Registered User
 
chros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,587
Quote:
Originally Posted by xabregas View Post
Hmm, thats why i found super-xbr on 1080p videos on 1080p screens better than Jinc for example xD
As I said, on my GT650m nvidia mobile card, Jinc+AR is faster than super-xbr+HQAR in v0.88.14 (super-xbr+LQAR was about the same speed) watching 1080p content on 1080p display.
__________________
Ryzen 5 2600,Asus Prime b450-Plus,16GB,MSI GTX 1060 Gaming X 6GB(v385.28),Win10 LTSB 1607,MPC-BEx64+LAV+MadVR,Yamaha RX-A870,LG OLED65B8(2160p@23/24/25/29/30/50/59/60Hz)
chros is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th July 2015, 15:34   #31625  |  Link
xabregas
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by chros View Post
As I said, on my GT650m nvidia mobile card, Jinc+AR is faster than super-xbr+HQAR in v0.88.14 (super-xbr+LQAR was about the same speed) watching 1080p content on 1080p display.
faster YES, but if PQ is better for me with super-xbr may jinc RIP I only get few more ms in rendering with super-xbr. With NNEDI i get 3x rendering ms if i only use 16 neurons. PQ is better ofc but not as much to justify the extra gpu wattage and burn and its summer here, so super-xbr is a very good implementation, amazing quality, less ringing than the sharpest algo usually have and rendering is not a problem

Last edited by xabregas; 9th July 2015 at 15:37.
xabregas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th July 2015, 19:23   #31626  |  Link
pirlouy
_
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: France
Posts: 635
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
[...About windows 10 compatibility...] Until it's released its almost pointless looking at it. The code changes daily..
Well, it's most of all because madshi has not enough time for this. Ideally, it's the best moment to find Windows bug; developers are ready to fix things. When Release/RC status is reached, they will fix only critical stuff.
pirlouy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th July 2015, 23:08   #31627  |  Link
XMonarchY
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 489
Is 88.16 SR with Algo 0 = 88.15 SR with default settings? I can't tell much difference between "alternative colorspace" options, but Algo 1,2,3 are blurry, while Algo 0 = sharp (good) on all sources I tried. The difference is very slight though... I tried disabling SR completely since some said that doing so is like removing dirt from the screen, but all I could notice was increased aliasing when SR was disabled.
__________________
8700K @ 5Ghz | ASUS Z370 Hero X | Corsair 16GB @ 3200Mhz | RTX 2080 Ti @ 2100Mhz | Samsung 970 NVMe 250GB | WD Black 2TB | Corsair AX 850W | LG 32GK850G-B @ 165Hz | Xonar DGX | Windows 10 LTSC 1809
XMonarchY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2015, 03:06   #31628  |  Link
leeperry
Kid for Today
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,475
So I just spent quite some time comparing .15 and .16:

-0.00 sharpness is less forgiving, I kinda liked slightly increasing it in order to hide compression artifacts but yeah OK unforgiving is good too and I'm currently sitting 80cm away from a 3500:1 32"....I guess 0.00 would be just fine from a 3 meters distance.

-I still far prefer HQ off in .15, enabling it utterly veils the picture to me. Major bottleneck at work, this is a definite no-go(using NEDI/J3AR/CR AR LL/monostatic ED2@8bit on mostly 720p content, of course the constantly dancing noise of dynamic dithering would more than likely completely hide the HQ veil and make it virtually impossible to spot - especially ED1).

-I'm well aware that my views towards that nasty HQ option would be nitpicking to anyone on this planet but then asking for impressions between HQ algos in .16 is way worse, good luck DBT'ing them for that matter lol. All algos add that same HQ veil to the picture IME and the colorspace option doesn't make any visible difference to me either.

All this said, I'm still extremely impressed by how natural PQ looks with 3 passes and 0.75 strength. I would eventually thoroughly enjoy a debug option to disable HQ in .17 but it actually sounds like NEDI might soon be tossed and SR become a silly checkbox without any knob, so I would also be totally cool with sticking with .15 and calling it a day. PQ is honestly and literally beyond all my expectations and I will happily purchase mVR should it go commercial one day


Last edited by leeperry; 10th July 2015 at 06:50.
leeperry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2015, 05:14   #31629  |  Link
AngelGraves13
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 239
madshi, can we please get super-xbr for image upscaling as well as chroma upscaling?

Currently, Jinc is the best choice for upscaling unless I use image doubling, which causes a slight delay opening and maximizing videos, and it doubles or quadruples and then scales down using Spline instead of just scaling to the proper size, so it's basically doing twice as much work for no reason.
AngelGraves13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2015, 07:37   #31630  |  Link
Warner306
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelGraves13 View Post
madshi, can we please get super-xbr for image upscaling as well as chroma upscaling?

Currently, Jinc is the best choice for upscaling unless I use image doubling, which causes a slight delay opening and maximizing videos, and it doubles or quadruples and then scales down using Spline instead of just scaling to the proper size, so it's basically doing twice as much work for no reason.
Unfortunately, super-xbr is a form of image doubling - it can only double the image resolution. This is why it is limited to chroma upscaling (which is also a form of image doubling) and luma/chroma doubling.

A new linear scaler would be nice, though. Jinc is a little boring after years of use.

Last edited by Warner306; 10th July 2015 at 07:40.
Warner306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2015, 07:57   #31631  |  Link
AngelGraves13
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
Unfortunately, super-xbr is a form of image doubling - it can only double the image resolution. This is why it is limited to chroma upscaling (which is also a form of image doubling) and luma/chroma doubling.

A new linear scaler would be nice, though. Jinc is a little boring after years of use.
I see. I wonder if there is also a super-xbrz based on the xbrz scaler.

Guess I'll stick to Jinc for now.
AngelGraves13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2015, 09:39   #31632  |  Link
surgical
Dopax
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 17
Greetings to all:
I use madVR with MPC-HC , LAV and ffdshow ; the latter, because occasionally use some avisynth script.
Anyway, I do it on a Nvidia GTX 570 and still have doubts about the correct color space should I use and need your wise counsel.
Currently, based on what I've learned here, I've my Nvidia in full RGB mode , LAV decoding with RGB levels "untouched as imput" and madVR in TV levels 16-235, as I'm connected via HDMI to a TV Sony KDL 32EX-500 (Bravia Engine 3) that, if I'm not mistaken, does'nt support 0-255 (although I'm not sure if this TV Works internally the signal in limited RGB or YCbCr)
It is correct my config ?
Thank you all in advance
surgical is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2015, 10:46   #31633  |  Link
Asmodian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 3,798
That is correct if your TV does not support full RGB.

If you want the desktop correct as well you would need to switch Nvidia to limited RGB and madVR to full. This does reduce the quality of madVR because the GPU does a full to limited conversion which damages the video compared to madVR outputting limited range and the GPU leaving it untouched.
__________________
madVR options explained
Asmodian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2015, 12:33   #31634  |  Link
Hyllian
Registered User
 
Hyllian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelGraves13 View Post
I see. I wonder if there is also a super-xbrz based on the xbrz scaler.

Guess I'll stick to Jinc for now.
xbr and xbrz are basically the same algorithm with slightly differencies in corner treatments. The major differencies between them are in the implementation side, as xbrz was a xbr reimplemented in C++ using paralell instructions for use in some emulators that only use CPU to upscale their framebuffers.

See this post to know more about the differencies.

And Super-xBR is almost totally different than xBR. It uses a slightly modified edge detection from xbr and interpolate pixels using known linear interpolators (sinc, cubic, bilinear, etc). The edge detection is just a direction guide. And it doesn't use the corner treatment from xbr, so I can't see how a hypothetical super-xbrz would differ from the existent super-xbr.

The way I figured out how to combine the edge detection with the linear interpolation of pixels without introducing artifacts only works when exactly doubling the resolution. The same way as NEDI works. For now, if I try to scale by a non power-of-two factor, something goes wrong. Maybe it's possible and I just don't know yet. It's something to research in the future.

Last edited by Hyllian; 10th July 2015 at 13:02.
Hyllian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2015, 13:26   #31635  |  Link
Mano
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 54
Anyone see any improvement with AMD Catalyst 15.7 compare to 13.12?
Mano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2015, 14:03   #31636  |  Link
Schwartz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 44
I've never seen the appeal of using an upscaler and then slapping on a 'corrective' AR algorithm. Ideally, a scaler shouldn't introduce ringing in the first place. Maybe it's so popular because the red and green bars suggest that it's the best. Remember that these bars aren't an objective assessment. I'd be curious to see each scaler's wave diagram instead. If you want to try something new, there's plenty of other upscalers. I'm a big fan of Spline 3 for upscaling and Mitchell for downscaling. SoftCubic 70-80 is great for dealing with bad encodes and old SD content.
Schwartz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2015, 14:16   #31637  |  Link
Hyllian
Registered User
 
Hyllian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post
Ideally, a scaler shouldn't introduce ringing in the first place.
Some ringing is benefic to the output. If you don't introduce it, the output will be blurred some way. The AR function is to get rid of bad ringing.
Hyllian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2015, 14:17   #31638  |  Link
aufkrawall
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,734
The ringing is very obvious with lanczos/spline and afaik, the ringing filter isn't known to really do any harm.
The comparisons with super-xbr and NNEDI3 for chroma led me to the conclusion that Jinc3 AR is doing an extraordinary job.
The only disadvantage is that it can look too soft with extreme synthetic sample upscaling, but this isn't really a realistic case.
aufkrawall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2015, 14:22   #31639  |  Link
leeperry
Kid for Today
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,475
Quote:
Originally Posted by aufkrawall View Post
The comparisons with super-xbr and NNEDI3 for chroma led me to the conclusion that Jinc3 AR is doing an extraordinary job.
The only disadvantage is that it can look too soft with extreme synthetic sample upscaling, but this isn't really a realistic case.
Agreed, J3AR hits the spot for chroma IME. But I don't like a very hard-edged chroma as it then tends to interfere with luma too much and look artificial, I kinda suspect that some encoders process it somehow in order to counterbalance the drastic 4:2:0 downsampling so there's really nothing to dig for IMHO(on live-action movies at least, not anime or test patterns eventually).
leeperry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2015, 16:07   #31640  |  Link
Braum
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 48
Madshi do you plan on introducing a frame interpolation function in Madvr ?
Braum is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:58.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.