Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 9th June 2018, 20:58   #51281  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesFanUK View Post
- It takes several seconds to load a video
the load times should be the same the biggest problem is that TV screen can take a long time to change there mode. it's so short on normal monitors hardly a thing.
Quote:
- Mass load of dropped frames whilst doing it (same when scrubbing through a video)
there should be not difference between windowed mode seeking or FSE seeking it is doing the same.
Quote:
- No easy way to close the damn thing without clicking the escape button to window it, then close.
not sure how dumb potplayer is but double click is the usual way to get out of it...
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th June 2018, 00:22   #51282  |  Link
XTrojan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by foozoor View Post
FSE should be dropped.
The issue with this is how does one watch 4k bluray videos with 10bit color? anything outside FSE has a limit of showing 8bit.
XTrojan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th June 2018, 00:38   #51283  |  Link
veggav
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 79
Ok after more testing I can finally show what I was talking about the "more washed out" picture from MadVR compared to my OPPO.

I did a small test here, output at 1080p23 and 2160p23.
When watching 1080p I had YPbPr 4:2:0 and 8bits.
When using 2160 I had RGB Full 12bits.



This movie has tons of grain and this is good to show what I can't explain in words.
Look at the tree in the middle of the screen, can you see those dark green squares? It seems like MadVR is adding too much noise to the picture. I don't know if that is calling banding or ringing or aliasing.

I would like to try something here, output 1080p content as raw as possible to my display for testing.
How can I do that?
Even outputing 1080p23 MadVR will upscale chroma.
Is there any other renderer that can do absolut no scalling just for some testing here?
veggav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th June 2018, 01:53   #51284  |  Link
el Filou
Registered User
 
el Filou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 546
You can't use a PC to output 4:2:2/4:2:0 from a source directly to a display because it's always converted to RGB at some point.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10 1809, MediaPortal 1, LAV Filters, ReClock, madVR. DVB-C TV, Panasonic GT60, 6.0 speakers Denon 2310, Core 2 Duo E7400, GeForce 1050 Ti
el Filou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th June 2018, 06:19   #51285  |  Link
PimpUigi
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 2
Does anyone have a suggestion for the proper settings I should use for my Kuro Plasma TV's Film Mode (frame interpolation)
(such as if exclusive mode is better for that or not, or if present Vsync every frame should be disabled or? how many frames should be presented in advance? I'm just throwing paint at the wall; I have no idea.)

My TV has a Smooth setting (soap opera effect), and an Advanced setting (1080p24 interpolated to 72hz - gives very smooth camera panning without the Soap Opera effect)

When I use my bluray player with its 1080p24 mode, both of these modes work flawlessly (though I really only use Advanced for the 72hz interpolation of course)

However on my PC, things get wonky.
I have MadVR set to use 1080p23
My GTX1070 manages this just fine and I get less than 0.00% frame difference on a 23.976 video file.

However both Smooth and Advanced settings on my TV (connected via HDMI) result in spotty interpolation at best; if ever.
I can notice Smooth is semi-working, though it never results in a Soap Opera effect so I know it's not working correctly.

If I compare my Amazing Spider-man 2 blu ray to the 1080p MKV, or Batman 1989 blu ray vs 1080p MKV, the difference is evident and noticeable.

I'm not sure if it's nVidia Control Panel stuff I need to change, or MadVR stuff. I don't know where to go from here or maybe it's just impossible for my TV to do whatever processing it's supposed to do when coming from a PC/or Media Player Classic signal; strangely Amazon Prime video, that I play in my web browser seems to interpolate much more noticeably on 1080p23.
(also Dog Nmad, ufck these "random question"s)

Last edited by PimpUigi; 10th June 2018 at 06:39.
PimpUigi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th June 2018, 08:32   #51286  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,965
it is not possible to send 4:2:0 at 23 hz with HDMI and it is not possible to sue it at 1080p at all. so it is not possible to send an BD image untouched.

it'S not even the same screen so there is nothing to really look at.
and what upscaler and settings are you using?
with out a source i woudl say the image is full of compression artifacts that are either amplified with enhanced image details or are there in the first place.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th June 2018, 10:14   #51287  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,227
The only thing I can suggest to you is to never use Smooth Motion with any frame interpolation. You'll have to nut this out yourself..
In saying that ideally you want to create a custom mode that achieves no dropped frames on typical playback. It's likely that doing this will achieve the same results as blu-ray playback.
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th June 2018, 10:35   #51288  |  Link
PimpUigi
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 2
Definitely those are the two things I've figured out so far.
That and, that these forums questions are impossible to just google and get an answer for.
Just gotta wait until H.265 pops up as the answer.
PimpUigi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th June 2018, 13:32   #51289  |  Link
veggav
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
it is not possible to send 4:2:0 at 23 hz with HDMI and it is not possible to sue it at 1080p at all. so it is not possible to send an BD image untouched.

it'S not even the same screen so there is nothing to really look at.
and what upscaler and settings are you using?
with out a source i woudl say the image is full of compression artifacts that are either amplified with enhanced image details or are there in the first place.
I'm using heater settings from Asmodian thread: Madvr settings explained.
I typed it wrong. The 1080p23 image is 4:2:2. The lowest I could find.

I know those are not the same frames but you can see green blocks on the black background, right? Those are only present in the 2160p23 output.

Could this be related to something I was reading about dithering twice? I don't know how said something that you should not use 10bits on MadVR because you will be dithering twice or something?

Also, when outputing at 1080p23 the only thing I see is chroma beeing upscaled but I'm getting 18ms of rendering time?
This doesn't seem right with a 1080Ti. No dropped frames though.
veggav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th June 2018, 13:40   #51290  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,965
try default settings first.

and 4:2:2 is not working that way the image is RGB.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th June 2018, 22:53   #51291  |  Link
Warner306
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by veggav View Post

I can't tell what's going on in those images, either. I doubt it has anything to do with the chroma.

If you think you are getting a better image with 8-bit Y'CbCr, I would try outputting in Y'CbCr or RGB at 8-bits. Added noise is either due to bad upscaling, the source having these artifacts or banding due to bad color conversions by the display.
Warner306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th June 2018, 22:55   #51292  |  Link
Warner306
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,127
I put together a post on how to configure the display and GPU for media playback.

How to Configure a Display and GPU for a HTPC

This post is linked in the Kodi guide but can also be referenced by anyone else should the question come up (and it usually does).

I'd also take any suggestions as far as omissions/errors are concerned.
Warner306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2018, 01:37   #51293  |  Link
Warner306
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,127
I forgot about the forced limited range of Y'CbCr. How do AMD users using hdr passthrough set up their desktop?

And UHD Deep Color is apparently a thing. Deleted that line.
Warner306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2018, 02:43   #51294  |  Link
mkohman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 51
Hi Guys.. I am hoping that someone with knowledge for JVC projectors using madVR to convert HDR to SDR can help me.. I have played around with the settings and seem to have got things nice and balanced.. However I would appreciate if you could please look at the images attached in order to advise me if you can spot any errors in my settings...

JVC projectors with their natural HDR mode has never been pleasing to me.. The picture seems too dark and doesn't seem right.. I am using madVR to convert HDR to SDR using pixel shadings and the result is much more pleasing.. Below attached images will give you an idea of my used settings which I would really appreciate if you could spot out any errors or advise me to change a particular setting.. Many thanks in advance..

PS: here is a link I uploaded on YouTube to show the results :

https://youtu.be/BbnoLvbmp_I

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
mkohman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2018, 03:20   #51295  |  Link
SamuriHL
Registered User
 
SamuriHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 4,323
Wow I finally had a few minutes to upgrade my HTPC with the june 5th nvidia driver (don't have the version off hand right now but it's the latest as of this writing). I am super impressed. I've had lots of problems with my setup in the past few months with dropped and repeated frames and all that. The latest nVidia driver allows me to set madvr to full 10bit, driver to full 12 bit, and TV to accept 4:4:4. PQ is phenomenal and dropped frames while bitstreaming audio seem to be extremely rare now. Good job nVidia! I've not tested 3D but hey this is pretty sweet for 2D!
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10, I9 9900k, RTX 2070 Founder's Edition, Pioneer Elite VSX-LX303, LG C8 65" OLED
SamuriHL is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2018, 10:13   #51296  |  Link
Manni
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 733
@mkohman

You options on the JVC are good, but your peak brightness in MadVR is too low. With 200nits, you are compressing highlights way too much with bright titles (those with MaxCLL above 2000nits). You have a new (as in recent) JVC model that gives this information in the info screen, so use it.

A good rule of thumb for peak brightness in MadVR for JVC users is around four time the actual peak brightness. For example, I have 120nits in low lamp (2200hours), so I use 480nits for 4000nits titles. With 1000nits titles, you might want to keep using 200nits. I have 170nits in high lamp, so I use around 650nits. That gives you a brightness factor of 4.

Hopefully we'll soon get a variable in MadVR which will allow us to select a different profile according to the content, and when the tonemapping is sorted we'll work on improving it with dynamic behaviour optimized for projector.

You can also ask calibration specific questions in the JVC Autocal thread over at AVS, lots of good people who know a lot about the JVC and will be happy to help re questions about HDR calibration that are not specific to MadVR.

In the meantime, be patient!
__________________
Win10 Pro x64 b1903 MCE
i7 3770K@4.0Ghz 16Gb@2.18Ghz EVGA GTX 1080 Ti SC2 11Gb@2GHz 436.48 RGB Full 8bits
MPC-BE/LAV/MadVR/jRiver/MyMovies V5.25
Denon X8500H>HD Fury Maestro>JVC RS2000

Last edited by Manni; 11th June 2018 at 10:15.
Manni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2018, 11:15   #51297  |  Link
madjock
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
Wow I finally had a few minutes to upgrade my HTPC with the june 5th nvidia driver (don't have the version off hand right now but it's the latest as of this writing). I am super impressed. I've had lots of problems with my setup in the past few months with dropped and repeated frames and all that. The latest nVidia driver allows me to set madvr to full 10bit, driver to full 12 bit, and TV to accept 4:4:4. PQ is phenomenal and dropped frames while bitstreaming audio seem to be extremely rare now. Good job nVidia! I've not tested 3D but hey this is pretty sweet for 2D!
I assume its Driver Version 398.11. After reading your post I thought I would try again as I had the same old issues with this driver and not saving custom resolutions.

This time I used DDU to wipe out any remnants of my older driver 390.77 which is the one I have had success with for frame rates.

Wiped, and then restarted and installed 398.11, tried a video and yes it looks like as I said previously in another post Nvidia seem to have created a 23.976 fix, but for me it was Frame repeats every 12 minutes which I verified watching a video.

I then tried to create a custom resolution, and again and again, it would switch to the 23 mode when you selected test, but after you selected ok, the custom resolution dissapeared, tried various times no joy.

Used the madVR custom res mode and it created one, it said I would have frame repeats every 7 hours, went into control panel, and yes there was a custom mode there, tried a video, and same again, drops every 12 minutes ish. So I then amended the madVR custom mode in Nvidia Control Panel, and no matter what I changed the frame rate seems to be locked by Nvidia for me.

Unsure if it is because I am Bitstreaming and others are not to see the benefit, ah well.
madjock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2018, 11:38   #51298  |  Link
mkohman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
@mkohman

You options on the JVC are good, but your peak brightness in MadVR is too low. With 200nits, you are compressing highlights way too much with bright titles (those with MaxCLL above 2000nits). You have a new (as in recent) JVC model that gives this information in the info screen, so use it.

A good rule of thumb for peak brightness in MadVR for JVC users is around four time the actual peak brightness. For example, I have 120nits in low lamp (2200hours), so I use 480nits for 4000nits titles. With 1000nits titles, you might want to keep using 200nits. I have 170nits in high lamp, so I use around 650nits. That gives you a brightness factor of 4.

Hopefully we'll soon get a variable in MadVR which will allow us to select a different profile according to the content, and when the tonemapping is sorted we'll work on improving it with dynamic behaviour optimized for projector.

You can also ask calibration specific questions in the JVC Autocal thread over at AVS, lots of good people who know a lot about the JVC and will be happy to help re questions about HDR calibration that are not specific to MadVR.

In the meantime, be patient!
Thank you so much @Manni really look forward to things improving for projector HDR in madVR and really appreciate the work that @mashi and everyone else is putting into it..

The nitts situation makes sense, however I always use low lamp and I don't know how many nitts it produces.. I don't have the tool to measure it but I will have a play around 400 to 500 nitts in madVR and see how it looks.

Do you mind explaining what the info of maxCALL/maxFALL actually mean? Thank you

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
mkohman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2018, 11:46   #51299  |  Link
stefanelli73
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 34
In MadVr I use "PROCESS HDR CONTENT BY USING PIXEL SHADER MATH", as with my OPTOMA UHZ65 laser I can get an excellent HDR image, being the vpr very bright, so I do not feel the need to convert the hdr into sdr, also "PROCESS HDR ....." gives me a better image than "PASSTHROUGH HDR" .... in this regard I wanted to know if the function "measure each frame's peak luminance" affects the overall image to me it would seem yes, but I also wait for other opinions
PS: My vpr in HDR was calibrated not with the 3dlut as in sdr, but manually with the commands of the vpr, (white point 80 and 20ire and cms 8 points) using the test disk RYAN MASCIOLA HDR10 and CHROMAPURE, then in MadVr uses "this display is already calibrated" and BT.2020.
stefanelli73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2018, 13:21   #51300  |  Link
Jasch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 35
Hi,

just for info, HDR switching ist not working for newer AMD Drivers.(at least for win 1703(LTSB), have not checked 1804 )
latest working is 18.3.4.(i guess the changed something with 18.4.1 netflix 4k update).

wbr Alex

Last edited by Jasch; 11th June 2018 at 13:25.
Jasch is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:07.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.