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Old 18th September 2016, 18:20   #241  |  Link
Asmodian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e-t172 View Post
Would it be possible to document the smooth motion settings a bit more? I understand what the "always" mode means, but I'm confused about what "only if there would be motion judder without it" means (what's the criteria, exactly? would it match 30p@60Hz? 24p@60Hz? 23.976p@60Hz? I have no idea), and I'm also confused about what "... or if the display refresh rate is an exact multiple of the movie frame rate" means (what's the meaning of the "... or"? And how is that different from "always"?). Can someone please explain?
Sure, but I sadly don't have any data on what the criteria is, exactly.

"only if there would be motion judder without it" will activate for 23.976, 24, or 25 fps on a 60Hz display but not for 29.976 on a 60 Hz display or 23.976 fps on a 143.99 Hz display. So it only activates when there would be large motion judders, something like double digit percentages for frame time variance.

"... or if the display refresh rate is an exact multiple of the movie frame rate", the "..." means it is an extension of the previous phrase. It would make just as much sense, or even more, if the "... or" was removed along with the "..." from the end of "only if there would be motion judder without it...". In practice this appears to be synonymous with "always" but if we ever got a perfect video clock this may change.

Did this tell you anything? I think that is all I know.
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Old 18th September 2016, 19:45   #242  |  Link
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it is very obvious to me how it works. if you understand what judder is.

Quote:
"... or if the display refresh rate is an exact multiple of the movie frame rate", the "..." means it is an extension of the previous phrase. It would make just as much sense, or even more, if the "... or" was removed along with the "..." from the end of "only if there would be motion judder without it...". In practice this appears to be synonymous with "always" but if we ever got a perfect video clock this may change.
it will not trigger with a 23p source at 23 hz always is even used there.
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Old 18th September 2016, 19:59   #243  |  Link
Asmodian
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it will not trigger with a 23p source at 23 hz always is even used there.
Ah, you are correct. Even with my fairly inaccurate 23.9701Hz. Does that mean it doesn't trigger only when fps = refresh rate? I know smooth motion will still activate for 23.976 fps video on a well tuned 119.88Hz.
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Old 19th September 2016, 08:45   #244  |  Link
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i don't think madVR looks the inaccurate refreshrate to enable SM.

if SM is used this is fixed too.

Quote:
"... or if the display refresh rate is an exact multiple of the movie frame rate"
SM is not used with this option if the refresh rate is very close to the source.

23p source at 24 HZ does not really have a judder so the always option is needed here to get SM (don't do this...).
Quote:
I know smooth motion will still activate for 23.976 fps video on a well tuned 119.88Hz.
make sense with:
Quote:
"... or if the display refresh rate is an exact multiple of the movie frame rate"
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Old 19th September 2016, 08:55   #245  |  Link
Asmodian
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make sense with:
Shouldn't SM deactivate with a 23.976 source and a 119.880 Hz display when using "... or if the display refresh rate is an exact multiple of the movie frame rate"? 119.880 is an exact multiple (5) of 23.976.
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Old 20th September 2016, 13:33   #246  |  Link
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no clearly not.

"enable smooth motion frame rate conversation only if there would be motion judder without it or if the display refresh rate is an exact multiple of the movie frame rate."

the only sightly misleading thing is "exact" because it doesn't have to be exact.

that why this option is there so it will trigger with refresh rates that are a multiply of the source or very very close to it. for a 23p source 120 hz is close enough to trigger this option.

my english is pretty bad but this is totally clear to me.
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Old 20th September 2016, 17:18   #247  |  Link
Asmodian
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no clearly not.

"enable smooth motion frame rate conversation only if there would be motion judder without it or if the display refresh rate is an exact multiple of the movie frame rate."

the only sightly misleading thing is "exact" because it doesn't have to be exact.

that why this option is there so it will trigger with refresh rates that are a multiply of the source or very very close to it. for a 23p source 120 hz is close enough to trigger this option.

my english is pretty bad but this is totally clear to me.
You are right about the english, I think I have always added a "not" in my head when reading that line.

So this option is basically "always, unless the refresh rate equals the source frame rate"? I think the "exact" threw me off.

However, why does it work this way? Is there a reason to want smooth motion to trigger when the refresh rate is an exact multiple of the source? Is this for slightly off refresh rates and because smooth motion blurs too much when used at source frame rate?
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Old 20th September 2016, 21:16   #248  |  Link
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So this option is basically "always, unless the refresh rate equals the source frame rate"? I think the "exact" threw me off.
pretty much.

i guess it is there to remove the 1 frame drop/repeat every "what ever".
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Old 20th September 2016, 21:22   #249  |  Link
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Would almost make more sense to just define some acceptable frequency of dropped / repeated frames, say once every hour / day / year.
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Old 20th September 2016, 21:31   #250  |  Link
huhn
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but when are you going to calculate that?

BTW i'm using this option. at 60 HZ SM is fine for me anyway.
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Old 24th September 2016, 14:20   #251  |  Link
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"enable smooth motion frame rate conversation only if there would be motion judder without it or if the display refresh rate is an exact multiple of the movie frame rate."
I understand this two options exactly the same.
But what about "always"?
Now i suppose - in this mode madVR ignore source rate (and simply construct frames with target rate). So we never get dropped/repeated frame.
Is this true?
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Old 24th September 2016, 15:14   #252  |  Link
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that's true.
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Old 3rd November 2016, 21:36   #253  |  Link
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Updated formatting and some descriptions and added that black bar detection doesn't work with DXVA Native.
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Old 3rd November 2016, 21:54   #254  |  Link
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shifting the image does works with DXVA so hmm.
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Old 4th November 2016, 01:09   #255  |  Link
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I will do some testing and update it to be more specific, thanks.

Edit: Which image shifting did you test? I cannot get anything in "automatically detect hard coded black bars" to function when using DXVA2 Native, the always shift the image option doesn't have an effect. Even the hidden option ShowBlackBars doesn't do anything when using DXVA2 Native, it looks like detect hard coded black bars doesn't run at all when using DXVA2 Native.
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Last edited by Asmodian; 4th November 2016 at 04:20.
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Old 4th November 2016, 08:57   #256  |  Link
huhn
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a screen should be better:
https://abload.de/img/imageshiftqcs9f.jpg

and yes hard coded bars are not detected.

"cleanup image boarders by..." and "if there are big black bars:" works with DXVA native too. i even forgot they exist.

maybe something like: most black bar detection features doesn't work with DXVA native(DXVA copy back is recommended) in a proper english is a enough or it is getting complicated in the end.
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Old 4th November 2016, 13:37   #257  |  Link
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shifting the image does works with DXVA so hmm.
Of course. Basic logic tell us - this option have nothing related to black bars _detection_ and fully independent of this.
And I don't understand, why madshi put this option in group of "detect hardcoded bars" (and disable image shifting when detect option disabled). May be ask him in main thread?
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Old 4th November 2016, 14:36   #258  |  Link
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they where added at about the same time and he said before that he wants to rework/rearrange all these option/menus at one point and i'm pretty sure he looks over this in thread from time to time anyway.

but the place is not that far of. remove the words "hard coded" and it makes total sense but a lot of thy other option could be confusion. in the end this is about black bars.

madshi had problem with place on settings pages too and the first thing that comes up to my mind was "just add tabs" but in the end i'm pretty sure creating these menus is not fun at all and creating new algorithms feels more rewarding and make more fun.

i will come up on these topic when he is actively working on these options.
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Old 4th November 2016, 15:36   #259  |  Link
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i will come up on these topic when he is actively working on these options.
Ok. But i prefer change this in one simple combobox: "Image position on Screen" with 3 values "Top","Center" and "Bottom"
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Old 4th November 2016, 16:15   #260  |  Link
huhn
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if hard coded black bars are not the problem them the player should do that in my eyes.

i'm pretty sure mpc-hc can only do this manually maybe another play can do that.

what stops you from using this current option?

off is centered.
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