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Old 8th February 2019, 05:00   #54621  |  Link
70MM
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Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
Looks like that projector is somewhere around 185 nits max. I could be off so hopefully someone else chimes in that knows what they're talking about (hint not me! LOL)
Thank you very much as I know nothing about setting up HDR with my JVC NX9 projector. I think the default in madvr is 400 nits, whats different between it and your 185 nits please?

I feel that the proj isnt quite bright enough on their auto tone mapping as they have a slider for different size screens and gain, however they give no advice where to place the slider, its defaulted to a 120" screen with a gain of 1.

I want to test the madvr auto dynamic tone mapping to see it its better than the one in JVC. madshi said its very easy to setup but I just dont understand about the nits and what number to use for that setting..

Even a Google doesnt help my in this case....
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Old 8th February 2019, 05:08   #54622  |  Link
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Try 175 to start (below your max nits or what I believe is your max nits anyway) and see what it looks like. You can always adjust it until it looks the way you want brightness wise. It might take some playing around to get it set up just the way you want, but, start there and see what happens. If it's too dark, try lowering the target nit until it looks right.
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Old 8th February 2019, 05:41   #54623  |  Link
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Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
Try 175 to start (below your max nits or what I believe is your max nits anyway) and see what it looks like. You can always adjust it until it looks the way you want brightness wise. It might take some playing around to get it set up just the way you want, but, start there and see what happens. If it's too dark, try lowering the target nit until it looks right.
Great thank you so much for your help, so a lower number than 175 will be brighter correct. If you make it too bright do you loose contrast or blacks?
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Old 8th February 2019, 06:59   #54624  |  Link
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Anyone created a HDR test file to assist with setting target nits? Ideally madVR could have something built in?
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Old 8th February 2019, 10:01   #54625  |  Link
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Anyone created a HDR test file to assist with setting target nits? Ideally madVR could have something built in?
Is there such a thing that would be common to all ?, I have stopped reading the Projector thread as it seems to have taken on a life of its own with various apps needed or used, and having to check all your files as well. It does not help that my 1050 goes on fire even at the most basic of settings as well.

I have only been messing with HDR for about a month now, and the more I read, the more I do not understand what to do with it.

It seems there is no real calibration settings for HDR and you for the most part have to let your TV do its thing, I also have no idea how people know what is good or bad. Initially I was impressed with HDR but I don't have a dark picture that everyone speaks about, and I don't really want a dark picture either.
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Old 8th February 2019, 12:48   #54626  |  Link
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Anyone created a HDR test file to assist with setting target nits? Ideally madVR could have something built in?
What do you mean exactly? There's an HDR testpattern included in the madvr zip package or the HDR-10 calibration and test patterns set.

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I also have no idea how people know what is good or bad.
Probably they don't, but they just like the result.
Not to mention that every manufacturer can literally do whatever they want with HDR10, there's no strict standard for it.

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Initially I was impressed with HDR but I don't have a dark picture that everyone speaks about, and I don't really want a dark picture either.
Me neither. Hence I have set target nits to 120 in latest madvr beta with using gamma 2.4 3dlut on gamma 2.4 screen (although I just learned that's not the desired setup) and I don't have to adjust anything else and the picture is amazing (at least for me)
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Old 8th February 2019, 13:49   #54627  |  Link
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Great thank you so much for your help, so a lower number than 175 will be brighter correct. If you make it too bright do you loose contrast or blacks?
the lower the max nit the lower the image range but that doesn't affect your devices CR which stays the same.

so it kind of lowers "CR" and there is no way around that.

there is a diffuse level which is far away from the black so they should be untouched for the most part.
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Old 8th February 2019, 13:54   #54628  |  Link
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Originally Posted by 70MM View Post
Thank you very much as I know nothing about setting up HDR with my JVC NX9 projector. I think the default in madvr is 400 nits, whats different between it and your 185 nits please?

I feel that the proj isnt quite bright enough on their auto tone mapping as they have a slider for different size screens and gain, however they give no advice where to place the slider, its defaulted to a 120" screen with a gain of 1.

I want to test the madvr auto dynamic tone mapping to see it its better than the one in JVC. madshi said its very easy to setup but I just dont understand about the nits and what number to use for that setting..

Even a Google doesnt help my in this case....
I would start at 200 nits and raise it until the image has sufficient contrast. Increasing the target nits will make the image darker but with greater high dynamic range and contrast. Lowering this value will make the image brighter at the expense of raising black a bit and clipping highlight detail. The lower the number, the greater the tone mapping compression, but the brighter the image.

It would also help to use the current test build found in Soulnight's thread: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-ho...rget-nits.html.

There is actually a new test build available if you browse to Page 24, Post #712 that hasn't yet been added to the first post.

To use the test build, extract the zip file into the madVR installation folder overwriting existing files. madVR must be closed when you do this.

I prefer "highlight recovery strength" set to "medium," but higher values can also work. Make sure you uncheck all of the checkboxes related to tone mapping under "trade quality for performance." The other options have been simplified in this build.

If you get that far and want to go further, you can try pre-measuring your files with madMeasureHDR as explained here:

https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php...406#pid2750406

Once your files are measured, you can experiment with some of the other tools mentioned there, including Soulnight's dynamic target nits tool.
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Old 8th February 2019, 14:08   #54629  |  Link
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Anyone created a HDR test file to assist with setting target nits? Ideally madVR could have something built in?
A test file might be possible, but the result seems to vary per movie, possibly to due to other factors such as the amount of pixels near black. After tone mapping, movies with a low black floor can get quite dark because tone mapping will make many of the lower values even darker after tone mapping. This mostly occurs when raising the target nits above the actual brightness of your display by a large amount. The AvgFALL (Frame Average Light Level) can help in judging the overall brightness of the movie, but even it seems to fail sometimes in predicting a movie that is too dark after tone mapping.

I have been using HDR profile rules very similar to Manni's to match the target nits to the movie's measured AvgFMLL (Average Frame Maximum Light Level):

if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL < 1) "General HDR" else
if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL <= 100) "200 nits" else
if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL <= 160) "225 nits" else
if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL <= 190) "250 nits" else
if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL <= 225) "275 nits" else
if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL <= 250) "300 nits" else
if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL <= 270) "325 nits" else
if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL <= 300) "350 nits" else
if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL <= 380) "375 nits" else
if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL <= 550) "400 nits" else
if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL <= 700) "425 nits" else
if (hdr) and (AvgFMLL > 700) "480 nits"

You have to measure your files for profile rules like these to work. This approach focuses more on preserving the dynamic range of the source, but it also gets the brightness/contrast right much of the time. I haven't tried to optimize them any further, only simplify them, but it does a decent job of selecting a curve most of the time. Manni's original rules also incorporate the AvgFALL and I removed that bit.

This all could become a moot point if Soulnight's approach to changing the target nits dynamically during the movie ever works smoothly.

Last edited by Warner306; 8th February 2019 at 17:27.
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Old 8th February 2019, 14:13   #54630  |  Link
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Anyone created a HDR test file to assist with setting target nits? Ideally madVR could have something built in?
If you are testing with the latest builds and still find the image is too dark, trying changing the output gamma in madVR. Even those with a display calibrated to 2.20 can sometimes get a better result by setting madVR to 2.40.
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Old 8th February 2019, 14:51   #54631  |  Link
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If you are testing with the latest builds and still find the image is too dark, trying changing the output gamma in madVR. Even those with a display calibrated to 2.20 can sometimes get a better result by setting madVR to 2.40.
why does setting to 2.4 make it brighter ?

My 2.4 luts are always darker

Also, is there a lut switcher of sorts in madvr that can cycle the luts in a folder ?
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Old 8th February 2019, 15:04   #54632  |  Link
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with HDR->SDR madVR trys to archive a gamma of 2.2 and at that gamma the brightness matches PQ brightness. so if you now set your display is calibrated to 2.4 it will lower the gamma so the image looks brighter and is effect gamma 2.2.

with a target 2.4 3D LUT it doesn't do that because it doesn't known the 3D LUT gamma so the image is darker in comparison and mathematically wrong.

this should not be confused with color and gamma setting which work different and again don't work properly with a 3D LUT.

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Also, is there a lut switcher of sorts in madvr that can cycle the luts in a folder ?
no but you can do that with profiles.
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Old 8th February 2019, 16:44   #54633  |  Link
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Good news: it looks like 418.81 fixes the levels issues that I had with the JVCs in 12bits. So now you can get the correct levels with NCP set to 4K23 12bits RGB Full and MadVR set to video levels (16-235) with the projector set to standard HDMI.

That means that there is officially no reason to stay with 385.28, at least here.

Using CRU, custom refresh survive a reboot (as long as 23p is your default rate, not 60p).

Great to have custom refresh rates, correct levels and optimized 3D with the same drivers, with Asio4all support as well.

Still not an option for those who need HDMI passthrough for HDR, as the metadata is still not correct sadly. But if you use pixer shader tonemapping as I do, 418.81 seem to work great.

I just hope that it will be the same with my new RS2000 (arriving next week) and that ideally the 8bits magenta bug will be gone on the new models. I'll report back when I've been able to test.
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Last edited by Manni; 8th February 2019 at 17:05.
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Old 8th February 2019, 16:57   #54634  |  Link
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Great thank you so much for your help, so a lower number than 175 will be brighter correct. If you make it too bright do you loose contrast or blacks?
I need to be clear on one point here. This is true if you are converting to SDR. if you are outputting to HDR then a higher target nit value would correspond to a brighter image. Yes, this can be somewhat confusing to wrap your head around in the beginning but it does make sense. Making it "too bright" definitely can cause unwanted issues, yes.
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Old 8th February 2019, 18:00   #54635  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Manni View Post
Good news: it looks like 418.81 fixes the levels issues that I had with the JVCs in 12bits. So now you can get the correct levels with NCP set to 4K23 12bits RGB Full and MadVR set to video levels (16-235) with the projector set to standard HDMI.

That means that there is officially no reason to stay with 385.28, at least here.

Using CRU, custom refresh survive a reboot (as long as 23p is your default rate, not 60p).

Great to have custom refresh rates, correct levels and optimized 3D with the same drivers, with Asio4all support as well.

Still not an option for those who need HDMI passthrough for HDR, as the metadata is still not correct sadly. But if you use pixer shader tonemapping as I do, 418.81 seem to work great.

I just hope that it will be the same with my new RS2000 (arriving next week) and that ideally the 8bits magenta bug will be gone on the new models. I'll report back when I've been able to test.
just a question OT, are you using asio because you do not passthrough audio ?
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Old 8th February 2019, 21:27   #54636  |  Link
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just a question OT, are you using asio because you do not passthrough audio ?
No, no, Asio4all is just for REW

I use HDMI bitstream for movie audio playback.
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Old 8th February 2019, 22:39   #54637  |  Link
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It's great to see nVidia is addressing issues for JVC PJ users using madVR. In the mean time, for three driver series dating back to last year, they still fail to engage HDR mode because they can't even passthrough. I installed 418.81 a few days ago. It failed as miserable as the previous dozen or so.
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Old 9th February 2019, 06:49   #54638  |  Link
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@Manni

Does other apps like HDR 3D games also send wrong metadata or it's only related to madVR?
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Last edited by sat4all; 9th February 2019 at 07:14.
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Old 9th February 2019, 12:55   #54639  |  Link
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It's great to see nVidia is addressing issues for JVC PJ users using madVR. In the mean time, for three driver series dating back to last year, they still fail to engage HDR mode because they can't even passthrough. I installed 418.81 a few days ago. It failed as miserable as the previous dozen or so.
It must be DVDFab alone because madVR seems fine: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=176013
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Old 9th February 2019, 12:58   #54640  |  Link
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@Manni

Does other apps like HDR 3D games also send wrong metadata or it's only related to madVR?
No idea, I haven't tested and don't have any HDR games.
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