madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Damien147]

To avoid any unnecessary conversions. https://pcmonitors.info/articles/cor...-and-amd-gpus/

[nevcairiel]

The primary reason is that PCs always run in RGB. Everything is RGB, Windows, your video renderer, etc. So if you output anything else, there is an extra conversion step. Your video renderer outputs RGB to the video card, and the video card then converts to YCbCr for output, so skipping that step is usually preferable.

[Damien147]

Originally Posted by rebel_rebel

Hello!

I hope you can help me.

I am looking for the best picture settings using madVR.

I am using a dell T20 and a GTX 1050 Ti graphic card.

My Display is a Dell U2515H 2560 x 1440 @60hz.

I am watching 24p movies on my computer using MPC-HC.

Settings i am using right now are attached.

Can't see your image but here you are.

http://imgur.com/a/qAxCY

http://imgur.com/a/t2cIy

http://imgur.com/a/yE11u

http://imgur.com/a/vqWrg

http://imgur.com/a/B8Y4B

http://imgur.com/a/NPv0W

http://imgur.com/a/Czckq

+If you have an icc profile go to calibration settings and tick :this display is...

[Oguignant]

Brightness and contrast patterns for pc (0-255) are the same as the TV patterns? Or should I use others? I use the ave hd709 patterns to adjust the brightness and contrast. Line 17 for brightness and line 234 for contrast. In PC mode should I do the same?

[Damien147]

You set full rgb (0-255) for the whole chain and for example yes,you use the patterns to check if everything's ok.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by ryrynz

NNEDI3 32+ does better improving stair stepping with lines than NGU pix high and below. Only very high appears superior in this regard. I don't like NGU low much, medium is fine with a touch of edge sharpening, NNEDI3 16 sometimes wins on the lines and sometimes loses but I still prefer it over NGU pix's processed looking soft appearance (edge sharpening does help this a bit) NNEDI3 also picks up on more edges where NGU does not, in my first example this is seen around the eyes (I use the first frame for reference)

Ok, thanks.

Originally Posted by TheShadowRunner

Arg, don't bother trying from physical discs, I just ripped 2 of them (to rule out a weird occurence) and the result is the same from HDD: player freeze when seeking on any build newer than (and including) 0.90.4.0.
I have no such issue with mpeg2 .mpg files so it's something related to DVD format for sure.
In your test, are you using the "MS DVD Navigator" source filter?
I don't think many users are still using XP, madVR AND playing DVDs so I'm not surprised nobody else reported the issue..
As for switching from XP to 8.1, solely for this (in my case), is way overkill ^^;

It just says "DVD Navigator", but I'm pretty sure it's the MS one. GUID is "{9B8C4620-2C1A-11D0-8493-00A02438AD48}".

Switching to 8.1 also gives you faster boot times, faster kernel, a good desktop composition implementation (no more tearing in windowed mode), support for pre-presenting up to 16 frames to the GPU (XP only supports up to 3), support for Error Diffusion algorithms, support for native 3D output, and more...

Originally Posted by LexSfX

I just updated to the latest madVR and went to watch a tool-assisted speed run video from TASvideos. I always watch these with nearest neighbor upscaling, but when I went to set that in the madVR options, I noticed it was missing!

Nearest neighbor was only ever there to demonstrate how bad it is. I never intended anybody to actually use it. Why would you prefer it over other scaling options?

Try super-xbr or the new NGU pixart test builds. They should make your TASvideos look much better.

Originally Posted by jkauff

I would never cite Handbrake as an example of a good UI, but I do like that they have both a Basic settings UI and an Advanced settings UI. You can use one or the other, but not both.

Their implementation of this concept is pretty awful, but I can envision a 1.0 version of madVR with a clean and simple "Let madVR decide" UI basic mode. The current UI would be accessible to advanced users, but you couldn't use both.

As far as maintenance issues go, future "tweaks" would happen on the current UI side only. On the basic side, any changes would happen behind the scenes. The Basic UI would thus be a "once and done" development effort, at least until version 2.0.

Madshi, what do you think about this?

These things have been discussed before. The settings dialog is going to be revised for v1.0, but I'm trying to keep the changes small until I reach v1.0, because GUI work is time consuming.

Originally Posted by 70MM

Yes I would rather not use 4K if I cant get RGB from the Pro @ 60Hz.
I dont want anything to touch the madvr settings so Im with you!
Looks like I will have to invest in another upgrade, the 18 from Lumagen.
It never stops.....

Yeah, I hate HDMI, you have to upgrade again and again every other year. Soon HDMI will come out with yet another version which supports 4K (and even 8K) at high frame rates + high bitdepth. Which means everybody will have to upgrade yet again.

For now, all you can do is to stick to either 1080p, or use 4Kp23.

[madshi]

Here's a new NGU pixart test build:

http://madshi.net/nguPixArt.zip

Actually, the zip contains 2 different test builds. Both builds are almost identical to each other and to the previous build with only one key difference: The NGU "very high" algorithm has been tuned. The "low", "medium" and "high" algorithms haven't changed at all. So if you want to test the new builds, please use "very high" for all your tests.

The new builds have slightly different priorities to before: The old NGU pixart test build put highest priority on anti-aliasing capabilities, which proved to be working well. However, it resulted in some artifacts sometimes, and in results maybe not always looking very natural. The tuned NGU pixart "very high" algo now compromises a little bit. I've traded in a bit of anti-aliasing capability for more natural looking results and more sharpness. The 2 new builds are very near to each other. One build has ever so slightly higher anti-aliasing abilities, the other one is ever so slightly sharper.

Included in the zip is also a little image quality comparison, with screenshots taken with: NNEDI3-256, standard NGU very high, the original NGU pixart very high, and the 2 new NGU very high variants. Please check out the images and let me know which algorithm you prefer. Please also double check with your own content to verify your preferences.

Here's my own subjective quality evaluation, based on the screenshot images in the zip:

anti-aliasing abilities: NGU-pixart-old > NGU-pixart-2 > NGU-pixart-3 > NNEDI3-256 (see kitchen and americanDad images)
natural look: NGU-pixart-3 > NGU-pixart-2 > NNEDI3-256 > NGU-pixart-old (see potatoes and suzumiya images)
sharpness: NGU-pixart-3 > NGU-pixart-2 > NNEDI3-256 > NGU-pixart-old (see castle and americanDad images)

Overall, I prefer NGU pixart 2/3 over the other options, but I can't decide if I prefer pixart 2 or 3. With some images I prefer 2, with some 3.

What are your thoughts?

[Thunderbolt8]

not commenting on the pixart difference, but I noticed that my eyes almost every time preferred the standard NGU very high image. apparently I need a certain level of sharpness and focus, otherwise my eyes begin to hurt when switching over to the other images.

[pose]

madshi, i really really like NGU-pixart-3. Looks like a middle ground between NNEDI3+SuperRes and regular NGU to me.

[valdeski]

Classic NGU looks better for real life pictures while Pixel Art 3 looks better for anime but in that American Dad comparison classic NGU looks better than any.

Maybe Pixel Art 3 with extra configurable sharpening.

[Thunderbolt8]

Originally Posted by valdeski

Classic NGU looks better for real life pictures

agree

Originally Posted by valdeski

Pixel Art 3 looks better for anime

3 looks better than 2 imho, but classic still looks best.

Originally Posted by valdeski

in that American Dad comparison classic NGU looks better than any.

fully agree. this one is pretty much unwatchable with any other less sharp alogrithm.

[70MM]

Originally Posted by YxP

Your screen is physically RGB. (let's see if I got it right)

My display is a proj as mentioned in the OP (JVC X9000)

[Warner306]

Are there going to be any imminent changes to the settings dialog in the next version of madVR? A reorganization of Image upscaling/ Image doubling?

I am waiting for a stable settings dialog before upgrading my main HTPC.

[TheShadowRunner]

Originally Posted by madshi

It just says "DVD Navigator", but I'm pretty sure it's the MS one. GUID is "{9B8C4620-2C1A-11D0-8493-00A02438AD48}".

Yes that's the one, thanks for checking.
So I guess 0.90.3 will stand as the last build fully compatible with XP, at least for DVD support. I'm pretty sure the culprit being "* last video frame is now remembered for 2 seconds when stopping graph".
If this feature could be toggled on/off in madVR settings, I believe it would solve the issue, though. Worth a test?

Originally Posted by madshi

Switching to 8.1 also gives you faster boot times, faster kernel, a good desktop composition implementation (no more tearing in windowed mode), support for pre-presenting up to 16 frames to the GPU (XP only supports up to 3), support for Error Diffusion algorithms, support for native 3D output, and more...

I've no doubt 8.1 is enhanced for media playback and I will eventually have to switch, but for my next 4K htpc build, not with the hardware I'm currently on ^^;

[cork_OS]

madshi
NGU pix and NNEDI3 output is almost identical now (v2 is a bit closer). The one image pair in your comparison with noticable difference between NGU pix and NNEDI3 is "nature", but I'm not sure which one is better. Seems I've found this picture's "groundtruth", so anyone can compare and decide which one is more natural.

[jkauff]

I haven't tested with very many movies yet, but NGU pixart v3 looks very good so far for B&W SD films. v2 looks too sharp.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8

not commenting on the pixart difference, but I noticed that my eyes almost every time preferred the standard NGU very high image. apparently I need a certain level of sharpness and focus, otherwise my eyes begin to hurt when switching over to the other images.

Yeah, standard NGU produces very nice results, when it works. It just happens to fail (sometimes spectecularly) with bad quality sources.

Originally Posted by pose

madshi, i really really like NGU-pixart-3. Looks like a middle ground between NNEDI3+SuperRes and regular NGU to me.

One vote for pixart 3, noted, thanks!

Originally Posted by valdeski

Maybe Pixel Art 3 with extra configurable sharpening.

Don't really want sharpening configuration for pixart. Every extra option makes it more difficult for users to decide, and causes a lot of extra work for me. That's especially true for NGU where I can't just tweak some parameters in a couple of minutes, but a change in the sharpness needs a total reconfiguration of the algo.

Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8

3 looks better than 2 imho

Thanks, another vote for 3.

Originally Posted by 70MM

My display is a proj as mentioned in the OP (JVC X9000)

JVC projectors have 3 panels, one for Red, Green and Blue each. So yes, your display is physically an RGB display.

Originally Posted by Warner306

Are there going to be any imminent changes to the settings dialog in the next version of madVR? A reorganization of Image upscaling/ Image doubling?

There are going to be changes soon, but I don't know how soon exactly, and I also don't know how long the new settings version will stay.

Originally Posted by TheShadowRunner

Yes that's the one, thanks for checking.
So I guess 0.90.3 will stand as the last build fully compatible with XP, at least for DVD support. I'm pretty sure the culprit being "* last video frame is now remembered for 2 seconds when stopping graph".
If this feature could be toggled on/off in madVR settings, I believe it would solve the issue, though. Worth a test?

It's really ugly to try to fix something if I can't reproduce it here. I suppose I could make a test build with that one change disabled, just as a test, though, when I find some time (not now).

Originally Posted by cork_OS

NGU pix and NNEDI3 output is almost identical now (v2 is a bit closer). The one image pair in your comparison with noticable difference between NGU pix and NNEDI3 is "nature", but I'm not sure which one is better. Seems I've found this picture's "groundtruth", so anyone can compare and decide which one is more natural.

Yeah, that "nature" image is a weird one. In that image actually the old pixart build looks much nearer to NNEDI3 than the new variants, while with all other images the new variants are nearer to NNEDI3. I'm not sure what makes this image special.

Anyway. Do you prefer 2 or 3?

Almost identical? IMHO the new NGU pixart 2 and 3 beat NNEDI3 quite noticeably in some of the images (e.g. kitchen, americanDad and castle).

Originally Posted by jkauff

I haven't tested with very many movies yet, but NGU pixart v3 looks very good so far for B&W SD films. v2 looks too sharp.

Another vote for 3. I'm smelling a trend here...

[Patrik G]

Hi
Problems with sluggish motion with Blu Ray movies on an LG B6 OLED

i cant get motion to be smooth with madvr and the LG OLED compared to what it looks like on the UHD K8500 player with the same blu ray.
i have tried different Hz but no difference.
tried switching smooth motion on/off but not better.

whats the problem with madvrs motion and LG OLEDs and why does it run so much smoother on an stationary player?
with my old 500M motion was perfect with madvr and as good as a blu ray player.

any trix or suggestions?

[TheShadowRunner]

Originally Posted by madshi

It's really ugly to try to fix something if I can't reproduce it here. I suppose I could make a test build with that one change disabled, just as a test, though, when I find some time (not now)

That'd be very neat, anytime is great!

[tranfa]

Originally Posted by madshi

Some suggestions:

1) Please use display modes in the physical resolution of your TV, if possible, to avoid extra processing steps (which might harm image quality) in your TV. If your TV is really 4096x2160, then that's the right mode to use. But if your TV is actually 3840x2160, then please configure your HTPC to output 3840x2160 instead.

2) Make extra sure that all the refresh rates you enter into the madVR modes list are actually available, otherwise strange things may happen.

3) If things still react weird, you can upload a debug log and I'll see what's going on.

Thank you Madshi.

1) Done, I seem to have a similar bug to the one described previously on my Panasonic AX900, where the Win10 Ati Crimson driver recommends 4096x2160. But anyway, let's stick to 2160p, and see what happens.

2) Done. The issue is still there, introducing a 2160p29 or 30 puts in offside the p25...

3) How can I activate debug mode? I renamed the .ax files, I run the .bat file, and I get the error "file "madvr.ax" is missing" - but it's there...

Thank you for the patience...