Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion. Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules. |
12th June 2019, 13:11 | #1721 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Swansea, Wales, UK
Posts: 196
|
Quote:
I'd hoped for better from the BBC considering the quality of their iPlayer platform. As it is, from these barely veiled attacks I'm in doubt that they will use AV1 at all. Has anyone tried using SVT-AV1 on AMD hardware yet, especially Threadripper 16-32 cores? I'm curious to see how far Intel specific optimisations gimp AMD performance. |
|
12th June 2019, 18:09 | #1722 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 178
|
Quote:
As for the "Intel specific" optimizations, that could help or hurt on AMD, but at the very least they seem to use Visual Studio instead of icl (which is really more "AMD specific degradation" than "Intel specific optimization"). Edit: Does anyone have a binary available? It seems to require VS 2017 or 2019, and I won't install those while I have 2015 installed. Alternatively I can use their release, but it's several weeks old and a very active project. Last edited by `Orum; 12th June 2019 at 18:23. |
|
13th June 2019, 04:20 | #1723 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 178
|
Alright, here are some numbers on my R7 1700. Source was a 1080p BD I had handy. Options were: -q 30 -n 1000 -i stdin -w 1920 -h 1080 -enc-mode 4
Code:
Total Frames Frame Rate Byte Count Bitrate 1000 30.00 fps 5734937 1376.38 kbps Channel 1 Average Speed: 1.853 fps Total Encoding Time: 539574 ms Total Execution Time: 541517 ms Average Latency: 47668 ms Max Latency: 64363 ms Encoder finished Last edited by `Orum; 13th June 2019 at 04:23. |
13th June 2019, 15:27 | #1724 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 756
|
Quote:
|
|
13th June 2019, 17:46 | #1725 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 201
|
https://medium.com/vimeo-engineering...o-a2115973314b
Vimeo adopting AV1, specifically the rav1e encoder with an explicit wish to make it the new x264. |
14th June 2019, 10:27 | #1726 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1
|
Quote:
Code:
SUMMARY --------------------------------- Channel 1 -------------------------------- Total Frames Frame Rate Byte Count Bitrate 1000 30.00 fps 13116427 3147.94 kbps Channel 1 Average Speed: 2.653 fps Total Encoding Time: 376893 ms Total Execution Time: 378036 ms Average Latency: 33390 ms Max Latency: 47422 ms Encoder finished Last edited by unpause; 14th June 2019 at 10:31. |
|
14th June 2019, 18:06 | #1727 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Swansea, Wales, UK
Posts: 196
|
Quote:
I'm not saying that AV1/libaom are without their failings, but the graphs in the blog articles seem to show worst case scenario numbers for AV1 from what I've seen from other sources in the past (including here), while showing only improvement for VVC - the only positive thing they can write is that AV1/libaom has gotten much faster since their last test. The best I can say is that they are being somewhat disingenuous towards AOM's efforts thus far, though their potential patent stake in VVC causes me to lean towards a more nefarious angle on the matter. I would add that I don't in any way believe that VVC or MPEG codecs are intrinsically bad, in fact as an avid follower of ML/AI tech in media I am quite interested to see how it performs once implemented. It is the vortex of financial incentives that churn around MPEG efforts that has me reaching for my FUD colored glasses. Last edited by soresu; 14th June 2019 at 18:36. |
|
14th June 2019, 22:11 | #1728 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 729
|
And you think the companies like Google with vested interest in VP9/AV1 have no incentive to astroturf or paint their product in better light and competing in worse than is fair?
Actually, it might be open source enthusiasts and evangelists that volunteer/vigilante/follow these things as a hobby and not as a job/living that are the worst offenders with FUD ("Fear, uncertainty and doubt") or untrue claims, because companies are actually somewhat afraid of being held accountable. These folks probably often don't even get they do something dishonest or if they do, they think it's fine because "we are the good guys" (no, principles should hold for everybody.). Even if we put apart more controversial fields for sake of not starting offotpic flame... good example is for example the twitter/phoronix forums marketing of the Raptor Engineering (Power9 vendor) that routinely uses strongly dishonest FUD against x86 to sell their stuff to paranoid people as a company that does it, libreboot as non-profit people that do it and then the general fandom of this free hardware(firmware) movements as general internet people that then perpetuate it further. You could probably find a lot of that blinded hypocrisy here too. |
14th June 2019, 23:10 | #1729 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 95
|
No need for multi-paragraph comments arguing who is FUDing who (old-style FUDing is a tired tactic anyway).
BBC R&D (not necessarily representative of everyone in the organization) provided zero info that would allow anyone to replicate their results, let alone analyzing and arguing their usefulness. Period.
__________________
https://github.com/MoSal Last edited by MoSal; 14th June 2019 at 23:16. |
15th June 2019, 18:48 | #1730 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Swansea, Wales, UK
Posts: 196
|
Quote:
The end may not be 'just' patent royalties for all MPEG members, but it will certainly be a top consideration for most of them. The difference is actually in the product wording you mentioned: For Google and the other AOM content creators, the product is the content and increased access created by the codecs existence. For MPEG members, the product is the codec itself. Obviously that oversimplifies the matter somewhat, but I think that represents the main gist of it. Last edited by soresu; 15th June 2019 at 18:51. |
|
17th June 2019, 14:37 | #1731 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 55
|
First SoC launched by Realtek: https://www.realtek.com/en/press-roo...-cas-functions
|
17th June 2019, 20:07 | #1733 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Swansea, Wales, UK
Posts: 196
|
Faster than I expected for a hardware ASIC release, with HDMI 2.1 support no less - though HDMI 2.1 is obviously overkill for 4K60p video, the release doesn't say anything about higher than 4K support.
|
17th June 2019, 22:25 | #1735 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,315
|
https://www.reddit.com/r/AV1/comment...han_x264_x265/
Everybody compares AV1 to VP9 on 8 bits for both. What about VP9 10 bits? It makes also sense to compare AV1 8 bits vs VP9 10 bits. VP9 10 bits has several advantages over AV1 8 bits at this moment:
It makes sense to employ VP9 10 bits at least for 2-3 years more until a final jump to AV1. It will give additional time for AV1 to develop better encoders and decoders. Well, Google and Netflix already use VP9 10 bits for their HDR content but SDR could benefit as well. Plus VP9 benefits a LOT from 10 bits because it suffers from blocking and banding not less than H.264 as it indicates here https://sonnati.wordpress.com/2016/0...ntion-part-ii/ Last edited by IgorC; 17th June 2019 at 22:28. |
19th June 2019, 09:24 | #1736 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Swansea, Wales, UK
Posts: 196
|
Always interesting to hear about AI/ML tidbits related to video encoding, the Visionular speaker at the Big Apple Video conference (26th June) has this in her summary:
"Finally, we will introduce certain AI+codec techniques that could provide certain novel coding tools leveraging the use of deep learning for the next AOM standard, possibly AV2." |
19th June 2019, 18:33 | #1737 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 201
|
I think this paper covers one such proposal for AV2 and has the speaker as an author:
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10...319-94361-9_18 Couldn't quickly find a public version, but the citations took me to this which I think was another technique discussed: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1804.09291 Last edited by dapperdan; 19th June 2019 at 18:36. |
20th June 2019, 08:56 | #1738 | Link |
Angel of Night
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Tangled in the silks
Posts: 9,559
|
Reminds me of NNEDI, both in that there can be surprising visual gains and in that it will require enormous CPU & GPU power just to decode.
But isn't discussion of AV2 getting way off topic? We have an entire forum for discussing new and potential codecs, this thread is just getting more polluted and useless every week. |
20th June 2019, 19:40 | #1739 | Link | |
Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,771
|
Quote:
The barriers to using 10-bit seem pretty similar in both cases, namely longer encoding time, lack of 10-bit sources or processing chains (getting much better), reliance on good dithering in display system, somewhat slower SW decode, and rarer HW decode support. AFAIK, no one is planning any 8-bit only AV1 decoders, so 10-bit might be able to be used by default more often with AV1 if HW decoders become dominant. SW decoders need more optimization for 10-bit to make it competitive for higher resolutions. I expect 10-bit to become generally mainstream as it is required for HDR, and we're near or past the tipping point where the majority of new video consumption devices support at least HDR-10. |
|
20th June 2019, 23:43 | #1740 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,315
|
Of course You can compare AV1 and VP9 both 10bits.
My main point was not very disruptive move from VP9 8 bits to VP9 10 bits as a short term strategy (2-3 years). Let’s put some numbers. My i7 notebook uses 20-25% of CPU during Youtube 1080p@60fps (VP9 8 bits). If it was VP9 10 bits that would be 5-7% additional CPU usage. Still pretty acceptable. Now AV1 8 bits consumes whooping 60% at that resolution and framerate (and that with the last version of dav1d). While my notebook still can play it but a fan noise and overall slowness are quite annoying. Let alone AV1 10 bits. Dav1d hasn’t any 10 bits code yet and it will take some time to get fast 10 bits decoding and/or hardware acceleration. My notebook gets very hot and drops a few frames here and there with near 100% CPU load with AV1 10 bits on 1080p@60. Also my another notebook with Kaby Lake i7 already has VP9 8-/ 10- bits hardware acceleration. So why not? VP9 8 bits suffers from strong blocking and banding in dark areas and tones in my experience with Youtube and mobile Netflix videos. While VP9 10 bits can handle it very well with a little extra CPU overhead. |
|
|