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Old 24th November 2020, 20:40   #60801  |  Link
brazen1
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I've been using W10 20H2 for about a month on my workstation/HTPC with MadVR, etc. All is well. Everything is updated to the latest, Kodi 19 nightly, LAV, various players, nVidia, etc. etc. One thing stands out on my setup after upgrading to 20H2 - Windows desktop color saturation.

Video has always been as spot on as it can be and still is after the upgrade. Nothing changed. What changed drastically is the Windows desktop. It's always looked a bit drab when it comes to colors and blacks. I could compensate by changing some settings in my panel to make Windows look more vibrant and blacker without crushing but then it destroys the video playback and who wants to toggle settings video vs desktop, so I always lived with it. Not that it was terrible or anything.

Now with 20H2, the colors and the blacks have come alive. I notice it in web video. I first noticed it in the start menu. All the yellow folders and the pinned icons look so much better. Many things including GUI's of different apps look so much better. No settings anywhere were changed and it isn't coincidence. I even reverted back to 1909 (toggling from 1909 vs 20H2 in essence) without upgrading or downgrading anything and compared. Considering I've done many, many O/S versions throughout time, this 20H2 is something special imo... at least for me.

The only way I can describe it is - You know when you enable Windows HDR... and you navigate things throughout Windows, apps, etc. Some things look sort of overly saturated but appealing. Other things look horrible. What I see now is appealing and nothing horrible. This with Windows HDR OFF of course.

Maybe it just likes my old GTX 960 or something? Has anyone else noticed this?
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Old 24th November 2020, 20:47   #60802  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
Based on experience, it's not the frequency of updates but their timing. I play it very safe on my HTPC and only update about 6 months after a Windows release and I've never had any problems even though I'm not using LTSC (I will very soon update to 20H2, as now the H1 and H2 builds share the same core).
Most of the time the problems are with GPU drivers or the OS itself and get resolved after a few weeks.
IIRC I've only seen one issue with Windows 10 where a change was needed in madVR itself, and it was resolved by madshi after some months.I was comparing the performance with "scale chroma separately" (in trade quality for performance options) checked and unchecked, with 4K video on a 1440 display. I thought that didn't work but it was a misguided assumption from when I was using NGU for chroma (you can't use a doubling scaler for it to work, as huhn mentioned).
Of course the case with an even bigger performance gain is where display def = exact half of video def.
That's pretty neat. Buhhhh.. it's blasphemous to watch 4K on NON-4K screens. A War-Crime..

You will be tried and found guilty of Treason, Madshi himself will sentence you to 10 years of rock breaking.
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Old 24th November 2020, 23:26   #60803  |  Link
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@brazen1 - As you know, we both have almost the same exact rig, but I can't say that I've noticed anything different when I upgraded last month. I did a clean install, though, and I use a black background and never really access the start menu. I'm also mismatching levels intentionally by having the video card set to full and the TV to limited. Perhaps that's why I can't tell a difference

And speaking of outdated/unsupported hardware... brazen and I both run 12-year old CPUs and mobos! No issue with any of the five! major OS's I've had installed throughout the years
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Old 25th November 2020, 01:27   #60804  |  Link
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I too use a black background along with all the apps that offer 'dark themes' such as MPC. Mismatching levels is the cure for desktop in the setting changes I mentioned but not for video for me. Full, Full, Full here and I understand the panel differences require it. It really is a testament how significant the GPU role is in relationship to our other ancient hardware and even our GPU's are outdated.

That said, I, and perhaps you have little reason to upgrade assuming you also passthrough... and why wouldn't you. I do admit the 960 does not have enough oomph to use MadVR denoising with 2160p HDR and I'd like to have that for older titles that were remastered from film that contained a lot of grain to begin with. Newer digital titles are fine without it though. Even HDR 2160p 60Hz Gemini Man. Probably one of the best cameras used. Aircraft Carrier is another. I've had denoising mapped to my remote so when a noisy title is played I can simply toggle it on and repeat through the intensities until it cleans up. Only on non-HDR titles though. It's probably the most go to fine adjustment I make in real time playback and I'm so, so happy madshi created it for us. Big thank you if you're still monitoring this thread.

That said, I can't justify upgrading my 960 basically just for that - Not at todays rip-off pricing nor last years, nor the year before that. And what owners are selling their used units for... another complete joke. They can keep them or let some other thrifty nut job buy my share.
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Old 25th November 2020, 01:36   #60805  |  Link
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I'm a purist and a masochist, apparently, so I don't mind grain or stutter. Gives me even less of a reason to upgrade in the near future, although the 960 has been showing signs of aging lately (occasional freezes followed by hard reset). I can live with it for now. Next year might be the time to build a new PC from scratch along with getting a replacement for the trusty C7.
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Old 25th November 2020, 01:46   #60806  |  Link
brazen1
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Personally, I'm waiting for a Windows MadVR update that will force me to upgrade. (crosses fingers) That or 8k down the road when releases are abundant. Until then, I remain perfectly happy as is.
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Old 25th November 2020, 02:47   #60807  |  Link
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Has anyone else noticed that 60hz kind of smears 24fps content.. Whereas if you have matched refresh, the frames look more stochastic but also more clear.
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Old 25th November 2020, 03:42   #60808  |  Link
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Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
I meant minus 55% performance with the option unchecked, so it does indeed saves performance. Or, if you prefer to phrase it another way, more than 2x the rendering time if the save performance option is not checked.
my point is that you have to disable 2x chroma scaler for 1420p+ output for an UHD source.
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Old 25th November 2020, 10:40   #60809  |  Link
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Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
Has anyone else noticed that 60hz kind of smears 24fps content.. Whereas if you have matched refresh, the frames look more stochastic but also more clear.
You have Smooth Motion enabled I assume. Yes at 60Hz frame blending gives a noticeable reduction of clarity in motion. At 120Hz it's much less of an issue. Ideally match the refresh at 60Hz.
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Old 25th November 2020, 21:31   #60810  |  Link
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That's pretty neat. Buhhhh.. it's blasphemous to watch 4K on NON-4K screens. A War-Crime..
Yeah but it's on my desktop, I don't really watch movies on it and don't plan on getting a 4K display for it.
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my point is that you have to disable 2x chroma scaler for 1420p+ output for an UHD source.
Yes, I understood that, and I confirm that it works if you do that. I must have been using NGU chroma when I tested that option a long time ago which is why I had wrongly concluded that it didn't work in that scenario, but now I'm using ReconSoft and it works.
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Old 26th November 2020, 01:14   #60811  |  Link
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You have Smooth Motion enabled I assume. Yes at 60Hz frame blending gives a noticeable reduction of clarity in motion. At 120Hz it's much less of an issue. Ideally match the refresh at 60Hz.
I do not have smooth motion enabled.

I think it has to do with the frame hold times of the TV.
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Old 26th November 2020, 01:19   #60812  |  Link
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Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
I do not have smooth motion enabled.

I think it has to do with the frame hold times of the TV.
Sounds like it.
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Old 26th November 2020, 10:26   #60813  |  Link
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Still using w10 1803 and madvr works fine,though I use It on desktop. On laptop where performance suffers, MPC vidéo decoder offers also good quality without heating the GPU too much.
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Old 27th November 2020, 16:54   #60814  |  Link
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is there a way for madvr to change to 10-12 bit automatically when it detects a hdr movie? kinda annoying having to change it every time in nvidia control panel.
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Old 27th November 2020, 20:31   #60815  |  Link
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recently bought a panasonic hz1000, connected with an amd rx480, windows 10 1909, latest amd driver 20.11.2

I have a problem with the sdr black levels, when windows recognizes the display as compatible with hdr it darkens the black level, in the black clipping test practically nothing flashes, but also has effect also on the desktop

but if in the tv settings I turn off an hdr option that make to appear the tv as not compatible for hdr in windows the black levels then are perfect

so what it can be?, what does windows when it recognizes an hdr tv even if the use hdr option is off?
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Old 27th November 2020, 20:40   #60816  |  Link
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@mrmarioman - madVR has no control over the driver settings. Depending on the display, 8-bit can actually be better. You didn't give us any info on your setup. Assuming you are running the desktop at 60Hz 8-bit, the video driver will switch to a higher bit rate automatically when going to a lower refresh rate, if you set it manually once.
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Old 27th November 2020, 20:43   #60817  |  Link
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@ang3l - since you are using madVR, you should not be switching Windows into HDR mode manually. Windows shouldn't do anything differently. Sounds like the AMD driver is doing something.
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Old 27th November 2020, 21:17   #60818  |  Link
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Hopefully one of my last questions:

Since I am using the HDR to SDR tone mapping with MadVR - my PJ is in SDR mode with BT.709 color settings.

Should I set the display to being calibrated for BT.709 in MadVR settings? Or is this redundant?
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Old 27th November 2020, 21:41   #60819  |  Link
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Yes, you should. Match gamma as well. The more madVR knows about your setup, the better.
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Old 27th November 2020, 22:24   #60820  |  Link
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@ang3l - since you are using madVR, you should not be switching Windows into HDR mode manually. Windows shouldn't do anything differently. Sounds like the AMD driver is doing something.
yes, windows is in sdr mode, "play hdr game and apps" turned off and also the tv recognize the input signal as sdr

I forgot to report that the skin tones are way too reddish, so it may also be related to wide color gamut in some way, but in the amd radeon settings panel there is nothing about it, I tried to switch between rgb full range, limited, YcbCr 4:4:4 etc, but there is no effect, always darkened blacklevels and oversaturated colors

on the tv I tried to change all the settings, but the only one that works is that "setup hdmi hdr", which turn off the hdr functionality for the selected hdmi port

p.s.

another thing, if I leave that option on the tv on, so the hdmi on the tv is able to receive hdr metadata, but I connect the pc to the tv through my avr that is limited to 1080p with no uhd funciontality the black levels are correct

just to dimostrate that is not that option on the tv that turn wcg on for the incoming signal

I also tried to output the desktop at 1920x1080 connecting the pc directly to the tv, but nothing, windows recognize an hdr capable display and black levels/colors are wrongs

Last edited by ang3l; 27th November 2020 at 22:54.
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