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Old 27th November 2020, 22:52   #60821  |  Link
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Sounds like your gamut and black levels are wrong. I don't know about Panasonic's, but if there's an AUTO setting for gamut, use that. For black levels, it depends on what you set for the video card, but the display needs to match that. If blacks are crushed, then there's a mismatch.
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Old 27th November 2020, 23:28   #60822  |  Link
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@mrmarioman - madVR has no control over the driver settings. Depending on the display, 8-bit can actually be better. You didn't give us any info on your setup. Assuming you are running the desktop at 60Hz 8-bit, the video driver will switch to a higher bit rate automatically when going to a lower refresh rate, if you set it manually once.
I have a Sony X900F TV connected to my PC.
Madvr allows you to automatically change the resolution and refresh rate of the display depending on the movie source you play, but not the bit depth. Which is a bit of a nuisance having to manually change from 8 bit to 10 depending on the movie. I was hoping there was a way.
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Old 27th November 2020, 23:32   #60823  |  Link
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Yes, you should. Match gamma as well. The more madVR knows about your setup, the better.
My PJ is set on 'gamma 7' - which I believe is a SONY thing - not to one of the numbers like 2.2 or 2.4.
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Old 28th November 2020, 00:03   #60824  |  Link
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@mrmarioman - if your display doesn't have any issues with 10/12-bit, why not just keep it at that for everything? I don't understand why you would want to switch depending on the movie.
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Old 28th November 2020, 00:16   #60825  |  Link
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@LordX2 - According to Sony "Gamma 7: Produces a sharper picture by emphasizing darker parts". Seems to be the darkest out of the available special modes, but unclear if it targets 2.2 or 2.4. Since you tonemap with madVR, it would be good if you entered the correct value there.
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Old 28th November 2020, 00:18   #60826  |  Link
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@mrmarioman - if your display doesn't have any issues with 10/12-bit, why not just keep it at that for everything? I don't understand why you would want to switch depending on the movie.
Well, my TV at 10 bit only allows for 4:2:2. And I use it for gaming etc. So full RGB is needed sometimes. I guess with HDMI 2.1 TV's this will be a non-issue.
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Old 28th November 2020, 00:21   #60827  |  Link
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Yeah, there's no automatic way to switch between color spaces, but again, you could simply leave the driver at RGB all the time and then auto-switch between 8 and 12-bit automatically depending on refresh rate. RGB should be superior to YCbCr 4:2:2 anyway.
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Old 28th November 2020, 00:58   #60828  |  Link
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yes, windows is in sdr mode, "play hdr game and apps" turned off and also the tv recognize the input signal as sdr

I forgot to report that the skin tones are way too reddish, so it may also be related to wide color gamut in some way, but in the amd radeon settings panel there is nothing about it, I tried to switch between rgb full range, limited, YcbCr 4:4:4 etc, but there is no effect, always darkened blacklevels and oversaturated colors

on the tv I tried to change all the settings, but the only one that works is that "setup hdmi hdr", which turn off the hdr functionality for the selected hdmi port

p.s.

another thing, if I leave that option on the tv on, so the hdmi on the tv is able to receive hdr metadata, but I connect the pc to the tv through my avr that is limited to 1080p with no uhd funciontality the black levels are correct

just to dimostrate that is not that option on the tv that turn wcg on for the incoming signal

I also tried to output the desktop at 1920x1080 connecting the pc directly to the tv, but nothing, windows recognize an hdr capable display and black levels/colors are wrongs
Do you have Report BT2020 to Display set in MadVR? Try turning it off. I believe that this option will send HDR metadata even if MadVR is tone mapping to SDR. A dark overly red picture could be a sign that your TV is switching to its HDR picture mode.
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Old 28th November 2020, 11:40   #60829  |  Link
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Do you have Report BT2020 to Display set in MadVR? Try turning it off. I believe that this option will send HDR metadata even if MadVR is tone mapping to SDR. A dark overly red picture could be a sign that your TV is switching to its HDR picture mode.
the problem is that even the desktop is darkened, I have a wallpaper with some gray shades, that with thease wrongs blacklevels are all black

the only things that works is to turn off on the tv that option "setup hdmi hdr", that basically tell to connected device that is not able to receive hdr metadata

the level of this option are, "dynamic" (to accept hdr10+ e dolby vision metadata), "static" (to accept only static metadata), off

when this option on the tv is off windows works with correct color gamma e blacklevels, because recognize the tv as not capable hdr display

when the option is on, the tv remain in sdr, but blacklevels and colors are wrong

all other options on the tv related to hdmi, rgb/ycbcr range etc are useless, without any effect

anyway i tried another pc with a rtx2060, and everythings works correctly and I don't have to force the tv to appear to windows as not hdr display

so it's an amd driver/settings problem but i don't see any settings that could fix this issue

the only solution is to switch on and off the option on the tv when i have to play any hdr content :|
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Old 28th November 2020, 13:29   #60830  |  Link
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What driver version are you on?

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Old 28th November 2020, 14:30   #60831  |  Link
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If it's of any help, try win10-radeon-pro-software-enterprise-20.q3.1-sep11.

Installs fine for my RX, and has correct black levels for SDR and HDR (other drivers versions I have tried crushes the blacks slightly, as where, on my set up, this driver passes the Mehanik HDR10 black level test).

I would also recommend a clean install (using amdcleanuputility or ddu).
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Old 28th November 2020, 14:39   #60832  |  Link
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there where no known issues with AMD card regarding to black levels. did i miss something?
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Old 28th November 2020, 14:45   #60833  |  Link
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Might be just my setup, but with the latest lot of drivers I lose about 2-3 bars on the black levels running the Mehanik HDR10 black level test, but using 20.q3.1 they show correctly.

I should add, now running full-full-full chain.
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Old 28th November 2020, 16:07   #60834  |  Link
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Hi, is it normal to have 50-70 dropped frames when watching whole movie? My videocard is Nvidia 1070 , potplayer, whatever settings to put in madvr and tried custorm resolution always have 50-70 droped frames. MAdvr change resolution to 2160p23 automatically when play movie.
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Old 28th November 2020, 18:05   #60835  |  Link
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ok i solved the issue upgrading to windows 20h2

still has the same problem in YCbCr 4:4:4 but now changing the rx480 to RGB FULL and the tv to FULL range everything works as it should

with windows 1909 there was no way, it wasn't working at RGB FULL nor in YCbCr 4:4:4

with the rtx nvidia 2060 was working in every mode also with windows 1909

anyway just seen 1917 with madvr perfect automatic switching in amd hdr, great shadows details, wooowww
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Old 28th November 2020, 18:58   #60836  |  Link
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Hopefully one of my last questions:

Since I am using the HDR to SDR tone mapping with MadVR - my PJ is in SDR mode with BT.709 color settings.

Should I set the display to being calibrated for BT.709 in MadVR settings? Or is this redundant?
That would definitely be wrong.

The projector should not clamp its gamut, it should use full gamut at all times.

Without a colorimeter, Even in the case of SDR, it may as well use wide gamut as long as gamma tracking/grey balance is good.

Converting HDR to SDR does not mean you should use a lower gamut.

Without a colorimeter, madvr just needs to know what gamut your Device is, and approximately how bright it can get.
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Old 28th November 2020, 19:03   #60837  |  Link
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Originally Posted by oldpainlesskodi View Post
Might be just my setup, but with the latest lot of drivers I lose about 2-3 bars on the black levels running the Mehanik HDR10 black level test, but using 20.q3.1 they show correctly.

I should add, now running full-full-full chain.
You're losing them on the TV, The drivers are almost certainly doing it right.
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Old 28th November 2020, 19:05   #60838  |  Link
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I have a Sony X900F TV connected to my PC.
Madvr allows you to automatically change the resolution and refresh rate of the display depending on the movie source you play, but not the bit depth. Which is a bit of a nuisance having to manually change from 8 bit to 10 depending on the movie. I was hoping there was a way.
you need to test if 10/12bit actually works right on the TV, if it doesn't produce smoother gradients, (it could very well produce WORSE gradients) you're better off going to 8bit 444 full.
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Old 28th November 2020, 20:25   #60839  |  Link
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Should I set the display to being calibrated for BT.709 in MadVR settings? Or is this redundant?
I agree with VBB, yes you should. And trying to get an accurate gamma is a good idea too.

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Without a colorimeter, Even in the case of SDR, it may as well use wide gamut as long as gamma tracking/grey balance is good.
This is bad advice.

That projector does not have an accurate wide gamut. Without a colorimeter you cannot get accurate colors displayed on the screen using its wide color gamut but you can using BT.709. It is pretty undersaturated for DCI-P3 so any setting in madVR that thought it was outputting to wide gamut would result in undersaturated colors. Or very oversaturated colors if madVR thinks the display is BT.709 while it is actually using a wide gamut.

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Without a colorimeter, madvr just needs to know what gamut your Device is, and approximately how bright it can get.
So what should they set in madVR for the gamut of their device? I agree madVR "just needs to know what gamut your device is" but if you cannot measure it and it does not match a spec there is no way to tell madVR what the gamut is with any accuracy.

If you don't have a colorimeter use the most accurate mode your device has. That projector has a lot of curve in its DCI-P3 saturation sweeps too, I wouldn't expect you to approve.
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Old 29th November 2020, 02:04   #60840  |  Link
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I don't approve, but if lx2 isn't buying the probe, he might as well get his money's worth on color.

The stretch from rec709 to p3 isn't very big, at worst the most saturated color areas could lose some highlight detail while making the Blind stretch. The middling colors arn't that far off you'd be within dE-4 for the lightly saturated colors. Black people might look a little too red, but white people will just look a little bit pink. It's really not a big deal.

In most cases if you let the projector do its r709 clamp, it's very likely to undersaturate. And the r709 red isn't very inspiring to look at , and it basically has no orange. You can bet in most cases where these peaks are used, the grader Would've used a more saturated red had they had it in 709.

Greyscale and whitepoint accuracy is absolute, the other stuff, ABSENT a measuring device is negotiable, because you're NOT going to get any semblance of accuracy by just clamping, that's only a best guess.

I'd wager, Letting madvr assume SDR P3 gamut with the projector set to its full color space is going to be more accurate with less color compression faults between the 2 different maps.
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