madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[ikakun]

My experience with the new madVR version(0.88.1):

With D3D11: No problem with any queues. No tearing. Only gets presentation glitches when opening a video, switching between fullscreen/window, & on seeking.

D3D11 + SM + FSE + ED 1 or 2 (with or without options ticked) = Plays fine but gets into a problem when the video is paused. It shows only black screen (when Ctrl-J OSD is on, it disappears too) while the sound continue playing. It gets fine when exiting FSE.

D3D11 + SM + FS windowed mode (new path) + any dithering option = anythings fine.

9 to 10 bit = Like others reported, video gets dark in non-FSE mode with ED1/2.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Sparktank

with D3D11:
Turning on D3D11 and playing in Windowed Mode causes any video to repeat only a few frames (like a really short GIF, probably whatever frames is set to "pressented in advance") while the audio continues in window mode.

Happens to me too, but it rarely does.

[tyto]

I dont ever know if to update madVR I just need to delete all the files and then copy the new ones, or also click install.bat, or also uninstall before.

So far I delete everything, copy and click install.bat, but Im not sure if that's how you are supposed to do.

EDIT:
I wanted to do some comparisons, but Im not sure that if I take a screenshot with mpc-hc what I get its the "final" image (since its not even the right resolution)

EDIT 2: grey-dark problems
here's my feedback about that.
If I set 10bit, the only way to avoid "greyness" is to use D3D11 (and even with that, it only works in fullscreen)

EDIT 3: D3D11 PROBLEMS
with d3d11 I got presentation glitches like no tomorrow

[yok833]

Just a quick question... Do we still need to use error diffusion or any dithering when we are in 10 bit output??
Same question with debanding?? ... Is it still necessary?

[nevcairiel]

Originally Posted by yok833

Just a quick question... Do we still need to use error diffusion or any dithering when we are in 10 bit output??
Same question with debanding?? ... Is it still necessary?

Use your eyes, decide what looks best. It greatly depends on what your TV does with the image!

[tyto]

if my display support 4:4:4, should I set lav video to only output to 4:4:4? or just leave all selected?

[ashlar42]

Originally Posted by madshi

madVR v0.88.0 released
5) Please note that currently there are tons and TONS of options. This definitely is overkill and needs to be cleaned. This is a task we have to work on together. For each algorithm I'd like to define max 3 options (e.g. low, mid, high) and that must be sufficient. Otherwise the sheer amount of options will shy new users away.

First of all: thank you for the continued development on madVR. It's been such an exciting run so far.

Regarding point 5, I am writing to humbly suggest to keep the options available, maybe as an xml file to be configured manually, for those that really like to tinker with their configurations (similar to what Kodi does with advancedsettings.xml). My two cents, nothing more.

[feisty2]

Originally Posted by tobindac

I can't even imagine what 16bit monitors are for. Probably for labs.

U sure such monitor does exist and its out there in some lab?

[James Freeman]

can anyone please answer this:

* Is there any indication that 10-bit is used at output?
To enable 10bit I need FSE and D3D11 right?
Should I change "the native display bitdepth is:" to 10bit?

[huhn]

Originally Posted by James Freeman

* Enabling D3D11 disables Overlay mode.

* D3D11, FSE, no glitches at all (W7 64).

* Is there any indication that 10-bit is used at output?
To enable 10bit I need FSE and D3D11 right?
Should I change "the native display bitdepth is:" to 10bit?

As already suggested by others;
Since madVR is not for beginners in itself, it would be ideal to leave all the options under Advanced tab and settle for 3 (Low,Mid,High) options in the Basic tab.

Originally Posted by James Freeman

can anyone please answer this:

* Is there any indication that 10-bit is used at output?
To enable 10bit I need FSE and D3D11 right?
Should I change "the native display bitdepth is:" to 10bit?

10 bit output needs FSE d11.
you have set it under your device properties.
in FSE d11 you will see a line in the OSD like ~ fullscreen exclusive mode, 10 bit

Originally Posted by XMonarchY

Hmm... To be certain, I place only 1 Rec.601 3DLUT in Rec.709 line and it works fine, even for SMPTE C content that is actually labeled Rec.601/SMPTE C. The Rec.601 line stays empty... Kind of strange that madVR uses Rec.709 line even with Rec.601 3DLUT to render EITHER Rec.709 or Rec.601 content. What is the point of 3DLUT line labels then???

If this feature was properly integrated, madVR would not be using any 3DLUT from Rec.709 line to render content with Rec.601 label... Then again, not all content is labeled properly. I think there should be no 3DLUT line labels, just generic lines. Users should manually select the right 3DLUT to go into those generic lines based on content they plan on watching. Leaving it to madVR creates more confusion, considering that madVR will use whichever 3DLUT, Rec.601 or 709, in Rec.709 line to render both Rec.709 and 601 content, with or without labels. Its a complicated MESS IMHO.

ok i try it again.
don't use a smpte c 3d LUT in bt 709 line you will get wrong colors.
use a smpte c 3d LUT in smpte C line. i know that is broken right now so you can't do that. are you creating a bug entry in the bug tracker? i can do that just say so.
so in the meanwhile you have to use a bt 709 3D LUT. just take your measuring and create a bt 709 3D LUT and add this in bt 709 so everything should work fine. you can addionally add a smpte c 3D LUT now. but this is not needed madVR will make sure the rest is ok.

Originally Posted by tyto

if my display support 4:4:4, should I set lav video to only output to 4:4:4? or just leave all selected?

leave lavfilter at defaults.

madVR is outputting RGB and RGB is kind of 4:4:4.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

I get loads of presentation glitches in D3D11 FSE mode, on Windows 8.1, NVIDIA Titan X (350.12). On a multi-monitor setup if that maybe matters.
The number sky-rockets, almost like every frame (or every second) produces a glitch counter.

Does your refresh rate match the movie framerate? Can you test with a matching video, too? E.g. if your display can only do 60Hz, does the presentation glitch problem go away if you play a 60fps video (or a deinterlaced 60i video)?

Originally Posted by flashmozzg

W8.1 x64
It wasn't that bad (by the time I finished watching ~20min movie I had like 14-15 presentation glitches. Usually it's around 2-4). Could be because I stiched in and out of FSE more than usual.

Sounds ok. Presentation glitches can occur when switching between windowed <-> exclusive mode.

Originally Posted by MS-DOS

Also, just had a video playing on the background in D3D11 mode while browsing and it hanged after a few seconds. Pausing\unpausing resumed the sound, but the picture remained frozen.

Can you reproduce this reliably? If so, please provide me with a step-by-step guide to reproduce the issue. Thanks. Also, maybe a freeze report from this situation (Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Break/Pause) might help.

Originally Posted by Schwartz

Pausing an XVID on DX11 made the video repeat a fraction of a second over and over again like one of those old VCRs. Resuming play didn't work either.

Can you reproduce this? Does it only occur with the XVID? Or also with other files?

Originally Posted by Morku

I enabled D3D11 mode and get presentation glitches and dropped frames after these steps:

I switch from window to fullscreen exclusiv mode. Now when I jump in movie (by clicking on the bottom line) = that problem.

When I am in window mode and jump in movie = no problems. When I switch to fullscreen exclusive mode and don't jump in that mode, also no problems.

Do these glitches/drops only occur while seeking and then stop when the seek is complete? Or do these glitches/drops continue to add up all the time during playback once you've seeked in FSE mode? I mean do the glitches/drops increase with every second of video playback?

Originally Posted by aufkrawall

I doubt this, since D3D11 works well with MPDN in windowed mode.

That is no proof. Different software calls APIs in different ways. Just because there's no problem in games, or with a different renderer, doesn't mean that madVR must be at fault. It can still be the OS' or the GPU driver's fault. I know how MPDN calls the APIs but I don't like to call them like that. I believe my method is better. Maybe not in your specific case, though. However, I see zero tearing on any of my 3 PCs I've tested, and on none of the 3 Intel/NVidia/AMD GPUs I have in my development PC.

Originally Posted by Werewolfy

The "old" debanding algorithm seems to be better than the new one. To maintain the same level of details as the low preset, you need to use "treshold : 0.3" and "detail level :5" but in that case the debanding is weaker than the old one.

Thanks for the feedback. Ok, so the "new" algorithm can't compete with the old "low" algo, if you aim for max detail preservation. But how does the new algo compare to the old "high" algo? From what Shiandow has written so far I think that's the likeliest situation where the new algo could complete (and maybe beat) with the old one.

Originally Posted by JarrettH

I'm also getting a tonne of presentation glitches in the DX11 path and my render times are fine.

Not enough information. Windowed mode or fullscreen windowed mode or FSE mode? All the time or only after doing something specific? Which GPU? Which OS? Come on, you can do better than that...

Originally Posted by Sparktank

with D3D11:
Turning on D3D11 and playing in Windowed Mode causes any video to repeat only a few frames (like a really short GIF, probably whatever frames is set to "pressented in advance") while the audio continues in window mode. This applies to any bit depth (7-10 bit).
Switching to FSE, the video plays normally without repeated frame (short gif).

Was able to reproduce this on one of my PCs. Will try to find the cause of the issue.

Originally Posted by Sparktank

Smooth Motion:
SM + any bit + D3D11 + Ordered Dithering:
Presentation Glitches increase by 22-26 per second if time skipped to a different point in video and continues to increase.
Initially playing video with SM+D3D11 doesn't cause any PG and will continue play smoothly. Until time is skipped.

I suppose this is in FSE mode? Or also in windowed mode?

Originally Posted by cyberbeing

Render Queue doesn't fill beyond 6 (or less if present in advance frames <14) when using DX11 Windowed Mode. FSE is normal.

GTX 770
350.12
madVR 0.88.1 (x86 & x64)
Win7 SP1 x64

Strange. You do have the Windows 7 Platform Update installed, right?

Originally Posted by aufkrawall

I recently tested with a news broadcast video, and indeed, madVRs deband filter did better better.
To achieve a similar effect with Shiandow's deband filter, I need to higher the threshold value which leads to artifacts in motion like some kind of flickering.

Ok, thanks for the feedback. I suppose you compared to the old "high" setting, right?

Originally Posted by Anime Viewer

it seems enabling the upscaling refinement in scaling algorithms seems to crash the player/video every time I expand the window to full screen. Image enhancements seem to work well on the videos I've watched.
For reference I'm using 0.88.1

Don't have that problem here. Nobody else reported it, either. Can you reproduce it? If so, is it any of the refinement options? Or one specific?

Originally Posted by Anime Viewer

Configuration wise I like Shiandow's debanding better. The old debanding feels too limiting with only low, mid, and high options to choose from. While simpler it is not as versatile as Shiandow's.

Ok, but I'm much *much* more interested in image quality and performance comparisons. How much configuration control you get is a totally separate issue. If I keep Shiandow's deband algorithm, it will probably replace one of the 3 old presets. The current controls for the Shiandow deband algorithm will go away. So please compare primarily image quality and with secondary priority performance. Thanks!

For discussion about configuration topics, see below:

Originally Posted by ADude

Actually, I would suggest using the popular Basic/Advanced options paradigm. In other words, have few options shown by default ("Basic") and then have an Advanced button to click to show all options.

Originally Posted by Telion

Second this, as madVR's flexibility is one of its main advantages. The ability to fine-tune almost everything is crucial for such a feature-rich renderer that is used in many different environments and scenarios.

Originally Posted by ashlar42

Regarding point 5, I am writing to humbly suggest to keep the options available, maybe as an xml file to be configured manually, for those that really like to tinker with their configurations (similar to what Kodi does with advancedsettings.xml). My two cents, nothing more.

Originally Posted by James Freeman

As already suggested by others;
Since madVR is not for beginners in itself, it would be ideal to leave all the options under Advanced tab and settle for 3 (Low,Mid,High) options in the Basic tab.

I hear you. What you're asking for is not so easy to implement, though. For most users (I'd say 99% or more) it's much better to have a "low/mid/high" switch for every important algorithm then to have a dozen different knobs and dials. Most users wouldn't know what to do with so many options and would be overwhelmed. I understand that some advanced users like you would like to have more control. But let's be honest here:

How many of you are using the "debanding custom settings - toggle" keyboard shortcut which madVR currently offers, in order to fine tune those 5 or 6 different debanding parameters? Seriously, does *anybody* use it? I doubt it's more than 5 out of all madVR users.

One thing I could imagine is adding an advanced settings page somewhere where all the hundreds of different options can be fine tuned. However, it's not really easy, because the main dialog will continue to have low/mid/high settings. So would the advanced options have to allow you to redefine what low/mid/high means exactly? That would increase the number of options by a factor of 3, because every option would have to be available for low, mid and high presets. <sigh>

Anyway, something like this is not coming any time soon. It's too time consuming. For now I want to find proper simple defaults like low,mid,high and I *will* remove the other options. Sorry. I have to set priorities on the benefits of the majority of users. And the majority wants an easy to understand configuration dialog.

Originally Posted by huhn

is it trival to add nedi as a chroma resizer?

i know you removed chroma doubling in this build and using so "hard" resizer for chroma is a waste most of the time. but nedi is kind of cheap or does it perform bad for chroma?

Are you talking about chroma upsampling (4:2:0 -> 4:4:4), or are you using about chroma upsampling, when using NNEDI3 to double luma? In the first case, yes, NEDI might be an option to consider. But in the latter case I believe the benefit is too small to consider the complications that would mean for my code.

When talking about 4:2:0 -> 4:4:4 chroma upscaling, I think the SuperRes filter has more potential than using NEDI. I'm not happy with the current SuperRes default for chroma upsampling, though. But this is too early to discuss that. I want to concentrate on debanding for now.

Originally Posted by FireFreak111

With D3D11 Presentation path, Interop times pop up when I start the video. ~22ms, apparently spiking to insane figures like 2883597595ms yet not actually causing any effect on the motion of the video. This happens often when I open the video, disappearing 30secs to 2mins in, back to just render/present. Windowed overlay enabled, Windows 10.

I figured out this shows when I enabled SuperRes post-NEDI resize. It can sit at 80ms, with no dropped frames, and no glitches. Doesn't show in the Max Stats either, only in the average stats.

Can't seem to reproduce that here.

Originally Posted by tobindac

I bet though most are incapable of telling a difference above 6 or 7bit.

I guess so, too. But it's hard to judge, anyway, because it will differ from display to display.

[vivan]

Originally Posted by madshi

Thanks. So you prefer the "old" algorithm?

In the current state - yes.

Originally Posted by Anime Viewer

Configuration wise I like Shiandow's debanding better. The old debanding feels too limiting with only low, mid, and high options to choose from. While simpler it is not as versatile as Shiandow's.

Originally Posted by huhn

i agree. i personally like advanced settings more but if i look at the bigger picture i see the issue with that.

There're several options that you could tweak in custom mode (ctrl+alt+shift+d) - avgDif/midDif/maxDif, angleBoost/maxAngle. Old shortcuts were ctrl+alt+1..0 but know they don't work anymore and I don't know what new ones are.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by James Freeman

* Is there any indication that 10-bit is used at output?
To enable 10bit I need FSE and D3D11 right?
Should I change "the native display bitdepth is:" to 10bit?

When using FSE, the debug OSD should report the bitdepth.

What you should do or not I can't say. Depends on your display. Let your eyes be the judge.

Originally Posted by omarank

I was wondering you didn’t provide 12 bit and 16 bit support, just wondering not that I need them. If a display processes internally in say 12 bit and then dither the output to 8 bit, it may be better to feed it 12 bit than 10 bit.

Direct3D doesn't support 12bit output. 16bit is supported, but in a weird way and different GPUs produce different results. Rather weird results, sometimes. So I decided not to support 16bit output for now.

Feeding the highest possible bitdepth to the display may make sense, but only if the HTPC/GPU output is really proper (and I have my doubts about that with 16bit at the moment), and only if the display handles high bitdepth input in a good way, and only if the display has a decent dithering algorithm itself. So many ifs and maybes. So once again, nobody can tell you how to configure bitdepth, because it all depends on your display, and nobody sees it but you.

Originally Posted by omarank

In my testing I found madVR’s old debanding algorithm producing overall better looking images than the new debanding algorithm, irrespective of the parameters and the amount of banding removed.

Ok, thanks for the feedback.

Originally Posted by omarank

Seekbar doesn’t appear in FSE mode D3D11 presentation after a couple of seeks. I am using Windows 8.1 and it happens with x86 madVR build only.

Can't reproduce that here. It just doesn't show? And this problem did not occur with madVR v0.87.21?

Originally Posted by XMonarchY

Wooowzers! I had to go back to previous version. This new one, even with all the new features disabled, using the same exact values for settings I used in the older madVR, produces MASSIVE framerate drop. MASSIVE! I used the settings I described in the post above without adding the new Sharpen and De-band and refinement stuff. I do not know what is wrong... I know for a fact that I PROPERLY uninstalled the old version and reset this new one to DEFAULTs using the .bat as Admin. Using Exclusive mode or not using it makes 0 difference.

OK, more detail. This test was for Mid/Low-ish Quality content that is 720x480 on my 1080p TV, using NNEDI3 64n for Chroma Upscaling, and NNEDI3 32n for Image Doubling/Quadrupling effect - both set to Always. I turned off Quadrupling and framerate went back to normal. HOWEVER, in previous version, I was able to use NNEDI3 32n for Image Luma AND Chroma Doubling AND Quadrupling running this exact 720x480 content. Why can't I use NNEDI3 32n Quadrupling in this build without massive framerate drop? After disabling Quadrupling, I enabled Upscaling Refinement - LumaSharpen ONLY with default values, Shiandow's Deband Algorithm with default values, and Image Enhancement - LumaSharpen ONLY with default values. New features do not seem to make the image as nice as using Chroma and Luma Image Quadrupling in the older version of madVR.

In the older version, I was even able to use NNEDI3 128n for Chroma Upscaling + NNEDI3 32n for Chroma+Luma Doubling/Quadrupling. Now I get framerate drop if I use NNEDI3 128n for Chroma Upscaling + NNEDI3 32n for Image Doubling. I have to use NNEDI3 64n for Chroma Upscaling if I want no framerate drops.

Which image upscaling algorithm do you have selected? Is it something crazy like Jinc8 AR maybe? Try lowering that to something reasonable, like e.g. Lanczos3 AR. That algorithm doesn't need to be so fancy if you're using image doubling, anyway. And doing that will greatly reduce GPU consumption.

Originally Posted by Qaq

Panel may be 8 or 10 bit, but picture always processed in digital video processor first. In what bitdepth? Say, 10-16 bits.Thus its best to transport picture in highest bitdepth DVP can accept to get less roundings.

In theory yes. Provided that the display actually does high-bitdepth processing and dithers itself down with a decent algorithms. Which is not guaranteed. So in the end every user will have to test and judge based on what his eyes tell him.

Originally Posted by Qaq

BTW. Whats the point to use dithering in madVR if TV dithers picture at the last stage again anyway?

Dithering is mathematically necessary to avoid quantization noise, whenever bitdepth is reduced. Doing dithering in the display does not replace dithering in madVR, unless madVR outputs a very bitdepth to the display, *and* if the display properly handles that and dithers it down later properly. As written above, that's a lot of its and maybes.

Originally Posted by Qaq

@madshi
Tried 088. Windows 7 x86, 7750, Catalyst 13.12.

DX11 works fine, except picture blinks on 1080 videos in windowed (downscaled) mode. Not a big deal for me though.

Strange.

Originally Posted by yok833

Just a quick question... Do we still need to use error diffusion or any dithering when we are in 10 bit output??
Same question with debanding?? ... Is it still necessary?

IHMO yes and yes. Although when using 10bit output, random dithering or ordered dithering should do.

Originally Posted by huhn

yes d11 FSE. and i tried both 8 and 10 bit both have this issue.
not sure if it matters at all i'm on windows 10 x64 10074.

Originally Posted by cvrkuth

With Direct3D 11 presentation path enabled I have display switching issue again, now in madVR32 too (There was issue in the 32 bit version, v0.86.10. Madshi then do workaround and issue was gone).

<sigh> Will have to investigate that. Which is difficult because my computer monitors don't really support switching between different refresh rates...

Originally Posted by JPulowski

Thanks for including LumaSharpen. I did some testing and here is some feedback:[LIST][*]Looks like currently you are using the old version of LumaSharpen, which is 1.4.1. Current version is 1.5.0, which is included with Reshade + SweetFX bundle. I have already modified it for MPC-HC use, you can find it here.[*]Current madVR implementation uses Pattern 2 (9 tap gaussian, 4+1 texture fetches), although it looks nice on video games it doesn't look that good when it comes to videos. In my opinion, it would be better if you'd include the other patterns as options.

I didn't know there was a version 1.5.0. In which way is it different to 1.4.1? I see that the experimental limiter is missing which 1.4.1 had.

I'm using pattern 3. I can't see any pattern in 1.5.0 which looks more suited to video than pattern 3? Which pattern would you use instead?

Originally Posted by JPulowski

This is more of a personal request: I am normally used to MPC-HC's shader management. For instance I do always apply LumaSharpen, no matter if there is resizing or not. With madVR even though I can use profiles it gets complicated in this case. Because sometimes I watch videos downsized in windowed mode, which LumaSharpen does not apply unless it is pre-resize. And pre-resize and post-resize(upscale) applications of LumaSharpen is quite different from each other and requires additional fiddling. It would be nice if there would be an option to apply LumaSharpen always as post-resize.

I don't like the concept of always applying sharpening, regardless of the situation, maybe even with the same sharpening settings. That *cannot* produce good quality for all sources and situations.

There are soft sources, and sharp soures. Some sources need upscaling, some don't. Some are downscaled, some not. Are you saying that you really want to apply the same sharpening to all sources, after scaling, regardless of whether they're soft to start with, and regardless of whether they were upscaled or downscaled? Seriously?? Makes zero sense to me, to be honest.

I tried to use a different approach: If we presume that the source is nicely sharp, then we don't need to sharpen it any further, as long as we render the source in its original resolution, or as long as we downscale it. We do still need to sharpen the image after using upscaling, though, because if the upscaling factor is large enough, even a nicely sharp source becomes blurry, even when using NNEDI3. So if we presume that the source is nicely sharp, we only need sharpening after upscaling, and the amount of sharpening should depend on the upscaling factor, don't you agree?

Now of course not all sources are sharp. So if we have a soft source, we may want to sharpen it. That's what "image enhancements" are for. If the source is already very soft, it makes more sense to sharpen it right there, before scaling it, IMHO.

Originally Posted by huhn

so the "image enhancements" is pre resizing. ok i see.
not sure about pre resize sharpening. shouldn't post resize sharpening be better in most cases?

Let me try to explain how sharpening algorithms work: They look at each pixel separately and modify it, based on the values of neighbor pixels. Now if you upscale an image with a very large upscaling factor, the upscaled image will be very soft, and for each source pixel there will be lots and lots of target pixels. If you run a sharpening algorithm on such an image, the sharpening algo will look at the neighbor pixels, but they all originate from the same source pixel in this situation! So sharpening an image after using a very large upscaling factor is not very effective.

Sharpening has the biggest effect if you apply is before upscaling. However, from a quality point of view, sharpening looks better if you apply it after upscaling, because then the sharpening can be done in a higher resolution. So when should we sharpen? We need to find the right place and time in the processing pipeline. That's why the latest madVR build now allows sharpening as an upscaling "refinement" step: The upscaling is split into several 2.0x upscaling steps, and sharpening is applied after each step. This is IMHO a good compromise between sharpening effectiveness and quality. Sharpening before upscaling looks ugly. Sharpening after upscaling with a large upscaling factor has barely any effect. So we sharpen after upscaling with a max 2.0x upscaling factor to get the best results.

So why do I offer image enhancements which is sharpening applied to the source? Well, if the source is very soft, it is a comparable situation to upscaling with a very large factor: The neighbor pixels in a very soft image are already very similar. So if you take such a soft image and upscale it further, after that a sharpening algorithm won't have much effect at all. So for very soft sources it's more useful to sharpen them before upscaling, otherwise sharpening will almost be without effect.

Well, at least that's my thoughts about sharpening. I'm willing to be convinced that my sharpening concept is not good, but I'll need good arguments and ideally screenshots etc for that.

Anyway, one again, let's not discuss everything at the same time, that will only become a big mess. Let's all first concentrate on debanding. Once we have the debanding topic covered, we can move on to the next topic.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by vivan

There're several options that you could tweak in custom mode (ctrl+alt+shift+d) - avgDif/midDif/maxDif, angleBoost/maxAngle. Old shortcuts were ctrl+alt+1..0 but know they don't work anymore and I don't know what new ones are.

The new ones by default are empty, but you can assign any keys you like in the madVR settings.

[vivan]

Originally Posted by madshi

The new ones by default are empty, but you can assign any keys you like in the madVR settings.

Hm, I don't see any options for it there - only "debanding - toggle" and "debanding custom settings - toggle".
But by mashing the keyboard I figured out that new shortcuts are ctrl+shift+arrows on numpad

[huhn]

Originally Posted by madshi

Are you talking about chroma upsampling (4:2:0 -> 4:4:4), or are you using about chroma upsampling, when using NNEDI3 to double luma? In the first case, yes, NEDI might be an option to consider. But in the latter case I believe the benefit is too small to consider the complications that would mean for my code.

When talking about 4:2:0 -> 4:4:4 chroma upscaling, I think the SuperRes filter has more potential than using NEDI. I'm not happy with the current SuperRes default for chroma upsampling, though. But this is too early to discuss that. I want to concentrate on debanding for now.

i mean 4:2:0 -> 4:4:4.

isn't SuperRes a lot slower?

i come back to this after debanding.

[James Freeman]

Originally Posted by madshi

<sigh> Will have to investigate that. Which is difficult because my computer monitors don't really support switching between different refresh rates...

Man, you really need a good European TV with 23.976, 24, 25, 29.97, 30, 50, 59.94 and 60 Hz.

[nevcairiel]

Originally Posted by madshi

Does your refresh rate match the movie framerate? Can you test with a matching video, too? E.g. if your display can only do 60Hz, does the presentation glitch problem go away if you play a 60fps video (or a deinterlaced 60i video)?

Matching framerate seems to be fine (60 @ 60, anyway), I produced the problem playing 24p on a 60 Hz screen.

[MS-DOS]

Originally Posted by madshi

Can you reproduce this reliably? If so, please provide me with a step-by-step guide to reproduce the issue. Thanks. Also, maybe a freeze report from this situation (Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Break/Pause) might help.

Yes. MPC-HC's window needs to be fully covered by another window or minimized, then it freezes after ~30 seconds being like that. Sometimes it doesn't appear frozen after getting back to\unminimizing it and instead very quickly shows all the frames it supposed to show while being stuck, OSD reports 900+ dropped frames and the playback continues. Pretty weird. I PM'd you a freeze report.

[aufkrawall]

Originally Posted by madshi

Ok, thanks for the feedback. I suppose you compared to the old "high" setting, right?

Yes.
madVR high:


Shiandow 0,7; 2 (MPDN default):


However, Shiandow's deband can be very interesting with low quality sources, since it can be used as some kind of deblocking filter.

[James Freeman]

For SD content I definitely like sharpening before scaling; I find sharpening SD after scaling does very little.
When sharpening before upscaling one needs to be very careful because a little more can be too much.
To summarize, sharpening before scaling has a sweet spot, overdoing that sweet spot can destroy the image; What more, is that this sweet spot is personal...