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Old 25th September 2018, 00:59   #52701  |  Link
huhn
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2 hdmi connection into the TV.

i'm not aware of a TV that doesn't 2 have different settings per HDMI
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Old 25th September 2018, 05:02   #52702  |  Link
j82k
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Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
No other way to get into the service menu? My 2018 C8 definitely treats SDR brightness different than HDR.
I have a C8 too.
As far as I know you'll need a service remote or a phone which has an IR blaster to access the service menu.
For an android phones the app is called AnyMote not sure about iphone.

I can understand why LG limited the brightness for SDR. There are more and more cases with burn-in and if people could watch CNN or whatever all day with 500+ nits they probably would...

Last edited by j82k; 25th September 2018 at 05:04.
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Old 25th September 2018, 05:19   #52703  |  Link
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Originally Posted by iakoboss7 View Post
just installed v0.92.16 and for the first time ever in full screen i can see the windows taskbar. this has never ever happened before in the 3 years i use madvr with mpc-hc.

anyone facing the same problem?
Hey I get this happening sometimes as well, on earlier versions as well, its explorer.
if you have this happen again all you have to do is open task manager and restart explorer and it is usually fixed immediately, media player can remain open during this.
you can look up otherways to restart explorer more conveniently, i recommend NOT using any of the "gracefull" commands as it sometimes stalls on closing.
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Old 25th September 2018, 06:15   #52704  |  Link
suanm
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post

I'm a bit confused. What does cropping bars have to do with selecting v0.92.16 vs v0.92.14? And how can you be "back to v0.92.16", if that's the newest build?

Not sure about your image quality question, either. Why would 60Hz contain a Bicubic downscaling step while 30Hz does not? What does refresh rate have to do with resolution or with up/downscalin?
Master,The cropping bars feature in madVR 0.92.14 seems not to work perfectly,i think so at least in my opinion.However the madVR0.92.16 works perfectly on my pc.So i gotta choose madVR 0.92.16 although the feature of process HDR by using pixel shader math can't work correctly on my quantum dot tv set.
Another reason why i ask masters here about 30hz and 60hz.
In 3840*2160,60hz standard
and luma>soft(high),chroma>soft(high) mode,the playback of 1080p moves drops frames.However,when i choose 3839*2160 60hz and luma>soft(high),chroma>soft(high) mode,No frames drop.
I looks up the madVR list,it displays the 3839*2160,60hz mode has been optimized by madVR.But 3840*2160,60hz is a standard mode,it's not been optimized by madVR yet.
So i guess this is why no frames drop in 3839*2160,60hz mode.Unfortunatedly,when madVR runs,luma value goes >soft(high)<Biscius 150 AR,not simplex soft(high).
When i switch to 3840*2160,30hz,chroma soft(high) and luma soft(high) mode,no frames drop yet.
So now i can't be sure which image quality is better between 3839*2160,60hz, luma>soft(high)<Biscuis 150 AR and 3840*2160,30hz,luma>soft(high).
Because i don't know if madVR makes 4:2:0 convert into 4:4:4 in 30hz mode,furthermore if luma quadrupling upscaling works correctly in the same 30hz mode.
Thank you,master,for reading my endless remarks
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Old 25th September 2018, 07:49   #52705  |  Link
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Suanm, please post screenshots of the OSD in both instances.
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Old 25th September 2018, 10:45   #52706  |  Link
Sunset1982
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Originally Posted by j82k View Post
I have a C8 too.
As far as I know you'll need a service remote or a phone which has an IR blaster to access the service menu.
For an android phones the app is called AnyMote not sure about iphone.

I can understand why LG limited the brightness for SDR. There are more and more cases with burn-in and if people could watch CNN or whatever all day with 500+ nits they probably would...
Another way is too use a logitech harmony remote if you got one...
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Old 25th September 2018, 11:54   #52707  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
That sounds like something I should automatically do in madVR.
That would be great. May I also suggest putting the option to send BT.2020 metadata under the HDR options, as probably 99% of videos in this range would be in HDR. I'm sure there are people with use for it in calibration as well, but that means if I want to use it I would also need to create a profile to seperate rec 709 and BT.2020. I would think most TVs would handle calibrations for both.

At least for the LG OLED, there are two ISF calibration modes (bright and dark) for SDR that actually perform the same, so one could calibration one for HDR to SDR and the other for normal SDR, all on the same HDMI connection.

I don't have anything that would get me to the service menu right now, so I can't take measurements with the option suggested set. However, I would be careful so that this actually isn't setting HDR mode for SDR, meaning all the tone-mapping and processing that comes with it, instead of just increasing brightness. If someone gets a chance to measure the peak brightness, please check the gamma and luminance curves as well. It would be great if it was just peak brightness used to protect against burn-in, but I have my doubts.

Last edited by blu3wh0; 25th September 2018 at 12:07.
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Old 25th September 2018, 13:49   #52708  |  Link
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Hello. I have a following bug. When I wake up my monitor by typing account password to unlock my system (win10x64 1709), and try to resume the playback of a video that was paused, I get only the sound playing, but the video plays for a second and freezes. And only reopening the file helps. I use madVR v0.92.16, but I experienced same bug with v0.92.14.
I have a script that puts my monitors to sleep when I lock the system. But this problem doesn't manifest if I unlock the system right away, only when I leave it locked for some time.
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Old 25th September 2018, 14:07   #52709  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j82k View Post
I have a C8 too.
As far as I know you'll need a service remote or a phone which has an IR blaster to access the service menu.
For an android phones the app is called AnyMote not sure about iphone.

I can understand why LG limited the brightness for SDR. There are more and more cases with burn-in and if people could watch CNN or whatever all day with 500+ nits they probably would...
Thanks for the info. And yes, the burn-in issues are real so it's not too surprising that SDR brightness is limited. However, I can attest to the quality of the work that madshi has been doing in this area and it would be worth the risk IMO.
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Old 25th September 2018, 14:34   #52710  |  Link
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Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
Thanks for the info. And yes, the burn-in issues are real so it's not too surprising that SDR brightness is limited. However, I can attest to the quality of the work that madshi has been doing in this area and it would be worth the risk IMO.
There is no doubt that madshi is doing outstanding work and we all have been using madVR for quite some time but saying this is worth risking burn-in issues is too much in my opinion, unless you have warranty that covers such issues and you can be sure you can replace your screen without any problems or unless you simply have too much money and can afford replacing your TV any minute.

Also, my understanding is that changing this HDR module from normal to 'ON' is permanent. Not permanent like there is no option to go back but this would have an effect on all content including 'non HDR' content which then means you would have to to swtich this ON and OFF all the time depending on the content you want to watch. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but this doesn't sound like something I would want to do every single time between watching SDR/HDR content in order to make sure I can have the best quality available.

I don't know what other OLED users experienced using 'convert HDR to SDR' option so it's hard to tell if we can really take advantage from using this. I know one other person except me that experienced the same so going anything above 120 nits produces the picture that is just too dark and at the same time using 120 nits means you are watching content that is way too bright than intended.

Now everyone can decide for themselves. Personally I think I will stick to passthrough for the time being. But like I say, advising someone to risk burn-in issues is IMO too much and not a good advise. You can test it but if that can cause real damage to your screen I would say let it go.
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Old 25th September 2018, 14:41   #52711  |  Link
suanm
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Suanm, please post screenshots of the OSD in both instances.
Three snapshots are pasted to the message board.
Attached Images
   
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Old 25th September 2018, 14:45   #52712  |  Link
clsid
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Use external image host:
http://tinypic.com/
https://imgur.com/
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Old 25th September 2018, 15:18   #52713  |  Link
suanm
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Originally Posted by clsid View Post
Use external image host:
http://tinypic.com/
https://imgur.com/
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2u5r...9#.W6pC_5MSHb0
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=fxwld1&s=9#.W6pEHJMSHb0

Last edited by suanm; 25th September 2018 at 15:21.
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Old 25th September 2018, 15:30   #52714  |  Link
suanm
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Hello masters here
Two snapshots are uploaded to external image host.
link:

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2u5r...9#.W6pM9JMSHb1
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=fxwld1&s=9#.W6pEHJMSHb0
What do you guys think of my questions?
I mean which image quality is better between 3839*2160 60hz mode and 3840*2160 30hz mode? I worry that madVR can't make 4:2:0 convert to 4:4:4 in 3840*2160 30hz mode,and can't make luma quadrupling upscalling work realling in the same 30hz mode,either

Last edited by suanm; 25th September 2018 at 16:00.
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Old 25th September 2018, 15:39   #52715  |  Link
j82k
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I don't understand why people get the idea that using madVR HDR to SDR even with the service menu tweak would be more risky than passthrough.
Burn-in is caused by content with static parts like game huds or channel logos and as far as I'm aware most people use madVR for movies which don't have any static parts.

Even if the service menu tweak would get you HDR brightness for SDR that doesn't mean that you have to watch regular SDR content at 100 Oled-Light. The reduced SDR brightness is just a protection for dumb people who always run their TV at max brightness for everything.

Also I did some testing and I'm pretty sure while this service menu tweak increases SDR brightness it is still below HDR. Only the sports preset (with the service menu tweak) is for whatever reason similar bright as HDR. But even with all picture enhancements turned off this preset causes big issues for me. In darker scenes there is sometimes some really weird vignetting effect that even moves around when the picture is paused. None of the other presets does that. I also tested the sports preset without the service menu tweak and the issue still remained.
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Old 25th September 2018, 16:01   #52716  |  Link
huhn
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Originally Posted by suanm View Post
Hello masters here
Two snapshots are uploaded to external image host.
link:
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2u5r...9#.W6pC_5MSHb0
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=fxwld1&s=9#.W6pEHJMSHb0
What do you guys think of my questions?
I mean which image quality is better between 3839*2160 60hz mode and 3840*2160 30hz mode? I worry that madVR can't make 4:2:0 convert to 4:4:4 in 3840*2160 30hz mode,and can't make luma quadrupling upscalling work realling in the same 30hz mode,either
you run a 23 hz file at 30 or 60 fps there is nothing a custom resolution cna optimize here...

stay at the native resolution of your screen and try to frame rate match or use smoothmotion.

if madVR can do a 4:2:0 -> RGB conversation has nothing to do with the output resolution or framerate.
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Old 25th September 2018, 16:16   #52717  |  Link
suanm
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
you run a 23 hz file at 30 or 60 fps there is nothing a custom resolution cna optimize here...

stay at the native resolution of your screen and try to frame rate match or use smoothmotion.

if madVR can do a 4:2:0 -> RGB conversation has nothing to do with the output resolution or framerate.
So that means madvr can let 4:2:0 convert to 4:4:4 in 30hz mode,doesn't it?
Actually i worry that in 3840*2160 30hz mode the output bandwith is insufficient.it may lead to the 4:2:0 conversion to 4:4:4 failure.
In my memory 3840*2160 30hz is only suitable for HDMI 1.4 output port.
HDMI 1.4 output port only transports 4K video with 4:2:0,not 4k video with 4:4:4

Last edited by suanm; 25th September 2018 at 16:25.
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Old 25th September 2018, 16:24   #52718  |  Link
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Originally Posted by j82k View Post
I don't understand why people get the idea that using madVR HDR to SDR even with the service menu tweak would be more risky than passthrough.
Burn-in is caused by content with static parts like game huds or channel logos and as far as I'm aware most people use madVR for movies which don't have any static parts.
The SDR gamma curve makes more of the screen brighter, so the chances of burn-in increase.

I don't totally understand why someone with a display as bright as an OLED would want to use an SDR gamma curve to display HDR content. Projector owners champion this configuration, but it works much better when the display has limited brightness. A PQ curve will do a superior job of separating the various image elements with different amounts of brightness, like it was meant to be presented. A bright sun, for example, will stand out more when presented in PQ than SDR. SDR gamma tends to make large portions of the image brighter or darker. It is also possible to invite banding when the SDR curve is stretched too far, and you will reduce its accuracy without a proper calibration.

An HLG curve is a better example of a curve designed for HDR. It uses an SDR gamma curve for the SDR range and a much steeper logarithmic curve for HDR highlights. This will produce a better HDR effect than an SDR gamma curve alone and reduce the chances of banding.

Last edited by Warner306; 25th September 2018 at 16:26.
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Old 25th September 2018, 16:50   #52719  |  Link
j82k
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I don't think what you're saying is true at all when using madVR's HDR to SDR. Average brightness totally depends on what you set the target peak nits to. So it could also be darker than HDR passthrough, which is what I'm after, darker overall picture but increased dynamic range compared to LG's tonemapping. Also I've never seen madVR produce any banding when it wasn't a source problem, quite the opposite I think 8-bit with dithering gives smoother gradients than whatever the LG produces when feeding it with 10-bit.
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Old 25th September 2018, 16:50   #52720  |  Link
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Originally Posted by creativeopinion View Post
There is no doubt that madshi is doing outstanding work and we all have been using madVR for quite some time but saying this is worth risking burn-in issues is too much in my opinion, unless you have warranty that covers such issues and you can be sure you can replace your screen without any problems or unless you simply have too much money and can afford replacing your TV any minute.

Also, my understanding is that changing this HDR module from normal to 'ON' is permanent. Not permanent like there is no option to go back but this would have an effect on all content including 'non HDR' content which then means you would have to to swtich this ON and OFF all the time depending on the content you want to watch. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but this doesn't sound like something I would want to do every single time between watching SDR/HDR content in order to make sure I can have the best quality available.

I don't know what other OLED users experienced using 'convert HDR to SDR' option so it's hard to tell if we can really take advantage from using this. I know one other person except me that experienced the same so going anything above 120 nits produces the picture that is just too dark and at the same time using 120 nits means you are watching content that is way too bright than intended.

Now everyone can decide for themselves. Personally I think I will stick to passthrough for the time being. But like I say, advising someone to risk burn-in issues is IMO too much and not a good advise. You can test it but if that can cause real damage to your screen I would say let it go.
To be clear, I wasn't advising anyone to do anything with their equipment. I was simply saying it's potentially worth the risk....to me. Given that I'm coming to OLED from a plasma screen, I'm already well versed in burn-in issues and how to prevent them. As I've no intention of leaving CNN on for 8+ hours a day (I'd pull my katana off the wall and commit seppuku first) my personal risk of burn-in issues would be fairly small. I'm NOT recommending anyone else mess with their OLED. The service menu is difficult to get to for a reason. Screwing with that invites problems....problems most people would be well advised to avoid.

Yes, the HDR->SDR is definitely too dark for us LG OLED users. 120 NIT target isn't going to fly. If I were to make any actual recommendations to other people it would be to leave the service menu alone and use HDR passthrough. Hopefully madshi can fix the current issues with the HDR using pixel math option.

In any case, I just wanted to clarify that my statement was my own personal opinion for myself and not a general recommendation that people go messing around with very expensive equipment.
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