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Old 11th May 2015, 17:04   #29641  |  Link
noee
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10-bit Display Support Test

This test will make it easier to see if your display actually supports 10bit input to output.....
Cool. So, when I set for 8bit and go FSE OFF, I can barely make out the gradient. I mean I have to really look close. This is a 2year old Hitatchi LCD, so I can't imagine it has 10bit support.

My eyes just bad or is my screen doing something to smooth out the gradients (like dithering, I would assume)?
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Old 11th May 2015, 17:14   #29642  |  Link
James Freeman
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My eyes just bad or is my screen doing something to smooth out the gradients?
No , your eyes are fine; I too have my nose in the screen to see the gradients of 8bit.
On a typical LCD with 1000:1 contrast TV/Monitor 8bit is almost enough, but still visible on a smooth test pattern.

A video/movie is not a test pattern, you will not be able to see any difference between 8 and 10 bit at all.
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Last edited by James Freeman; 11th May 2015 at 17:21.
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Old 11th May 2015, 17:16   #29643  |  Link
potomac
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leave the madVR deinterlaced settings as they are.
if a BD is deinterlaced it runs at 50 or 60 hz that mean your rendertiems have be below 16 ms!

can you share a very small sample ~10-30 sec from a motion scene?
maybe the BD is PsF.
also dvds doesn't run smoothly with deinterlace!
check pm for the sample
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Old 11th May 2015, 17:22   #29644  |  Link
phoenix369
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I´ve tried your test with my Panasonic TX-50AX800E 4K which is supposed to support 10bit but failed to see differences between 8bit and 10bit. Followed your instructions in madVR config. Any ideas ?
Have I understand correctly the fact that 10bit needs FSE mode ?
Thanks!
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Old 11th May 2015, 17:35   #29645  |  Link
huhn
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Originally Posted by phoenix369 View Post
I´ve tried your test with my Panasonic TX-50AX800E 4K which is supposed to support 10bit but failed to see differences between 8bit and 10bit. Followed your instructions in madVR config. Any ideas ?
Have I understand correctly the fact that 10bit needs FSE mode ?
Thanks!
who said this that this TV is 10 bit?

and yes FSE is needed for 10 bit.
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Old 11th May 2015, 18:05   #29646  |  Link
nevcairiel
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10-bit Display Support Test

processing->artifact removal->reduce banding ON: High High.
Personally, I find its much more obvious on that particular pattern if you disable debanding, since debanding is a dithering algorithm in itself. In 8-bit, i can see quite obvious banding, while in 10-bit, its far less obvious, barely visible.
There is however one problem with that test (with or without debanding). If i try that on a display which I know is 8-bit only, it still looks better in 10-bit FSE mode. Maybe the GPU dithers, or the display itself. I can't be sure. But i don't get the 8-bit picture which I would get from windowed mode.
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Last edited by nevcairiel; 11th May 2015 at 18:12.
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Old 11th May 2015, 18:06   #29647  |  Link
phoenix369
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who said this that this TV is 10 bit?

and yes FSE is needed for 10 bit.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/panaso...130000698.html

Not sure. Maybe I got it wrong
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Old 11th May 2015, 18:17   #29648  |  Link
meetajhu
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How to install only madVR 64-bit?
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Old 11th May 2015, 18:19   #29649  |  Link
phoenix369
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Personally, I find its much more obvious on that particular pattern if you disable debanding, since debanding is a dithering algorithm in itself. In 8-bit, i can see quite obvious banding, while in 10-bit, its far less obvious, barely visible.
There is however one problem with that test (with or without debanding). If i try that on a display which I know is 8-bit only, it still looks better in 10-bit FSE mode. Maybe the GPU dithers, or the display itself. I can't be sure. But i don't get the 8-bit picture which I would get from windowed mode.
This make all the difference!! Now I can see the change. Even in 10-bit I still can differentiate the gradient bars.
I suppose this is confirmation then

BTW. I can`t see the mouse pointer in FSE, so seek bar is unusable, anybody else?

Last edited by phoenix369; 11th May 2015 at 18:32.
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Old 11th May 2015, 18:30   #29650  |  Link
sneaker_ger
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How to install only madVR 64-bit?
Delete the line "@regsvr32.exe madVR.ax" from the install.bat before running it.
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Old 11th May 2015, 18:32   #29651  |  Link
madshi
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I'm also not sure if the display dithers or maybe the GPU. It's really hard to say. In the end, we can only compare and use whichever mode looks best to our eyes.
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Old 11th May 2015, 18:33   #29652  |  Link
James Freeman
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Personally, I find its much more obvious on that particular pattern if you disable debanding, since debanding is a dithering algorithm in itself.
NO, don't disable debanding, that is the whole point !!
This gradient video by itself is NOT smooth that is why I use debanding to make it smooth because of 16bit madVR's processing.
Of course you'll see the gradients of this video with debanding disabled!
The whole point is to have a true 16bit smooth gradient and output true 8bit or 10 bit pattern without Dithering (which should be disabled).
A true 16bit gradient video would be ideal.. Where is VerGreeneyes when you need him.

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This make all the difference!! Now I can see the change. Even in 10-bit I still can differentiate the gradient bars.
I suppose this is confirmation then
Confirmation of what? That your TV does not support 10bit?
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Last edited by James Freeman; 11th May 2015 at 18:55.
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Old 11th May 2015, 18:34   #29653  |  Link
Devrim
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A DX9 game fullscreen and madvr in Direct3D11 mode seems to be a no go, is this a known limitation or bug?
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Old 11th May 2015, 18:38   #29654  |  Link
madshi
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NO, don't disable debanding, that is the whole point !!
This gradient video by itself is NOT smooth that is why I use debanding to make it smooth because of 16bit madvr processing.
A true 16bit gradient video would be ideal.. Where is VerGreeneyes when you need him.
Simply use the madTestPattern "smallramp.ytp" and zoom it to fullscreen (not with DXVA). That will give you near 16bit without any dithering in it.

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A DX9 game fullscreen and madvr in Direct3D11 mode seems to be a no go, is this a known limitation or bug?
Didn't know that, but there's probably nothing I can do anything about it.
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Old 11th May 2015, 18:43   #29655  |  Link
madshi
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madVR v0.88.3 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

Code:
* fixed another media player shutdown crash/freeze
* LGPL issue fixed: changing "legal stuff\nnedi3ocl.cl" takes effect now
* LGPL issue fixed: changing "legal stuff\Shiandow\*" takes effect now
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Old 11th May 2015, 18:43   #29656  |  Link
phoenix369
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Confirmation of what? That your TV does not support 10bit?
Well I thought the contrary, that it does support 10-bit.
When I switch to FSE in 10-bit I can see the banding in the gradient clearly. Non FSE 10-bit looked like 8-bit. Is this the expected result for a 10-bit panel?
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Old 11th May 2015, 18:52   #29657  |  Link
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I have both a 10-bit capable LCD TV (Vizio M602i-B3) and a not sure-bit capable Plasma (Panasonic P55UT50) connected to my PC via up to 16-bit per channel active hdmi cables. For what it's worth, using grayscale ramps:

I can't really tell on the Pano plasma. I suspect this is either because the TV itself does a lot of dithering and/or it's not 10-bit capable. Anyway, I can't really see a difference so I've left it at 10-bit. There's definitely no degradation; so, my assumption is that it's either the same or marginally better.

The 10-bit capable LCD looks a lot better; even with error correction on. The gradients are super smooth in both 8 bit and 10 bit but I can see an improvement.

Overall, I'm a fan. I can't see any drawbacks to outputting 10-bit.

EDIT: Even though I haven't seen any drawbacks to 10-bit, I definitely wouldn't try to output 10-bit over, say, single-link dvi or an old hdmi cable. I wonder if it would be possible to create a test for this; say; by putting 8-bit and 10-bit grayscale ramps next to one another.

Last edited by Moony349; 11th May 2015 at 18:59.
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Old 11th May 2015, 18:58   #29658  |  Link
James Freeman
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Simply use the madTestPattern "smallramp.ytp" and zoom it to fullscreen (not with DXVA). That will give you near 16bit without any dithering in it.
True, this will do but with x86 version of madVR only.
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Last edited by James Freeman; 11th May 2015 at 19:11.
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Old 11th May 2015, 19:03   #29659  |  Link
madshi
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The madVR debanding algorithm works by doing some kind of dithering. That's what nevcairiel meant. It's better to zoom "smallramp.ytp" because that will give a noise-free very smooth ramp.
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Old 11th May 2015, 19:14   #29660  |  Link
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In the new version same issues with the not filled render queue, and the present stats peaking from D3D9 0.10ms to 0,80 ms with D3D11, nvidia gtx 550ti, 350.12.
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