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6th June 2017, 18:08 | #261 | Link |
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There was an interesting comparison of image formats in 2016.
HEVC and Daala are on first place. Daala(or AV1 at this moment) already does better in these days https://jpeg.org/items/20161026_press.html https://jpeg.org/downloads/aic/wg1n7..._challenge.pdf Last edited by IgorC; 6th June 2017 at 18:10. |
6th June 2017, 18:34 | #262 | Link | |
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I can see a royalty-free AV1 as being an excellent still image codec, and potentially, finally, something that could replace JPEG on the web for continuous tone images. |
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6th June 2017, 20:06 | #264 | Link | |
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To me FLIF looks interesting for images, and it's a finished format. But I don't have high hopes that I'll be seeing anything new in the browser. |
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8th June 2017, 01:09 | #265 | Link |
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It's different. WebP was only Google's project. Even Mozilla haven't support it, heh. Nor Microsoft...
While AV1 is supported/promoted by many big players http://aomedia.org/about-us/ WebP is barely better than JPEG (~15-20%) while AV1, HEVC or Daala are considerably better than that. Also JPEG is damn good image format. There is still no other image format with 2x better compression than JPEG. While H.264 and HEVC already outperform MPEG-2 by more than 2x on wide range of bitrates. Last edited by IgorC; 8th June 2017 at 01:13. |
8th June 2017, 05:48 | #266 | Link | |
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Apparently there is no need to do so. Waiting for JPEG XS Last edited by Jamaika; 8th June 2017 at 05:50. |
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8th June 2017, 08:37 | #267 | Link | |
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The only difference is that there's no JPEG in video formats, which is supported by everything anywhere. Good my *ss, people just got used to it's many artifacts. |
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8th June 2017, 09:38 | #268 | Link |
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@ IgorC:
Obviously you don't understand the main difference between still image compression and video compression. Motion prediction and inter-frame encoding. One single image has no motion. No surprise there is less redundancy to spare. If you compared I-frame only MPEG-2 with I-frame only HEVC, the ratio would be similarly disappointing. Last edited by LigH; 8th June 2017 at 09:41. |
8th June 2017, 21:13 | #270 | Link |
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Okay ... sorry for my bold expressions.
But expecting a 1:2 breakthrough in lossy still image compression sounds like a miracle to me, if I do not even expect that to happen in video compression. Even more than the "revolutions" (e.g. something else than DCT windows) which happened from MP3 over VQF and Vorbis towards Opus in the audio world. Something that might come at least close was V-Nova, the "noise modelling" in video compression, similar to mp3Pro and HE-AAC. _ P.S.: Wavelets instead of DCT was most probably not the expected miracle. At least not on its own... Last edited by LigH; 8th June 2017 at 21:23. |
8th June 2017, 21:14 | #271 | Link |
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Well, VP9 is considerably better than H.264 and VP8 at least on Youtube's bitrates (1080p ~1.7-2 Mbps)
While WebP is just somewhat better than JPEG. If it was that bad there would multiple articles about how bad JPEG was. And it's not the case. |
8th June 2017, 21:33 | #272 | Link | |
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Considering that JPEG comparison (subjective MOS), Daala/HEVC were already approx ~1.6-1.7x of JPEG efficiency at MOS 4(perceptible but not annoying). And the efficiency is 1.2-1.4x at MOS 4.5 If AV1 will have ~10%(?) of better intra prediction then it will be ~1.8x of JPEG efficiency at MOS 4. Rough numbers. As of audio, Opus, xHE-AAC(USAC) 80 kbps are on par with MP3 128 kbps in my experience. That's 1.6x And a recent audio standard 3DA apparently will need ~64-72 kbps. That's 1.75-2x. Last edited by IgorC; 8th June 2017 at 21:41. |
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30th September 2017, 13:11 | #273 | Link |
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http://wyohknott.github.io/image-for...t&ogv=s&webm=s Daala in dark areas can more effectively save small details AV1 smears. |
14th December 2017, 16:17 | #275 | Link |
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New release (sporadically from now on): AOM v0.1.0-7288-gbddba0a08 (MABS: MSYS2/MinGW, GCC 7.2.0)
See MediaFire shares in my signature Last edited by LigH; 14th December 2017 at 16:22. |
11th January 2018, 09:21 | #276 | Link |
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I will ask this controversial question.
What about the Daala project? Is it closed, will it be resumed? https://github.com/xiph/daala/commits/master |
16th January 2018, 17:05 | #277 | Link | |
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For some background see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AOMedia_Video_1 |
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17th January 2018, 01:55 | #278 | Link |
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Daala is likely to be continued after AV1 as an experimental codec. It achieved near HEVC quality levels without even nearly being finished (it doesn't even have B-Frames yet) and compared to AV1 it is much less complex. So let's see...
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17th January 2018, 02:29 | #279 | Link |
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Even if Daala does not develop into a competitive next-gen Internet codec. I think it has real potential to at least fill some niches:
* Still images! * Broadcasting internal usage (replace Dirac, VC-2). * Intermediate codec (replace ProRes). Unfortunately, I don't see Mozilla diverting resources away from AV1 (and Opus) anytime soon.
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