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Old 2nd February 2019, 00:43   #1421  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomV View Post
Not hardware. Software.
You should read the context of the question that answer was to. ;-)

To make sure its not lost again, let me paraphrase:
Q: Scalable Video, or Scaling with Hardware?
A: Hardware.
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LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders

Last edited by nevcairiel; 2nd February 2019 at 00:50.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 02:47   #1422  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
You should read the context of the question that answer was to. ;-)

To make sure its not lost again, let me paraphrase:
Q: Scalable Video, or Scaling with Hardware?
A: Hardware.
OK... I see. Exactly what they were thinking when they used this acronym, which, as Ben points out, is confusingly similar to Scalable Video Coding and Scalable HEVC Video Coding, I don't know. Nothing to see here... move along.
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Old 3rd February 2019, 17:47   #1423  |  Link
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Intel SVT-AV1 benchmarks: https://twitter.com/fg118942/status/1092045469981671424
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Old 3rd February 2019, 20:54   #1424  |  Link
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Is it just me or is rav1e actually pulling out ahead of VP9 at some bitrates on the graph? If so thats a nice milestone for rav1e, given the timeframe.
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Old 4th February 2019, 19:41   #1425  |  Link
benwaggoner
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Originally Posted by hajj_3 View Post
Is there more documentation on what's actually being tested and graphed here? Based on the parameters, it doesn't appear to be controlled for encoding speed. And odd to use --tune ssim for x264/x265 for VMAF, which is a superior objective metric than SSIM.

I wish tests would provide the actual per-frame VMAF scores instead of just a mean. For real-world duration stuff, variability of quality can hurt subjective quality in a way that VMAF itself won't capture. Keyframe strobing on one frame every 5 seconds doesn't drag down the mean much, but it can be a very annoying artifact viewers can clap along to.
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Old 4th February 2019, 20:31   #1426  |  Link
Nintendo Maniac 64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benwaggoner View Post
I wish tests would provide the actual per-frame VMAF scores instead of just a mean.
I presume you mean (pun not intended) in a manner similar to frame-time graphs used in GPU performance benchmarks, or at least just also showing a 1% low? For a similar reason, they came about since showing the average frame rate hides any uneven frame delivery which is much more important to game playability.

The only thing is that such graphs would tend to be limited to having a single bitrate or quality setting since the bottom axis in such a situation would be time rather than bitrate.

...which might very well be why people don't do it - because they want to show a single graph with various differing bitrates rather than a really detailed graph but only at a single bitrate or quality setting.


EDIt: A 1% low graph would at least let you do this, but it would still also require making a second graph (unless you don't even care about the mean at all, in which case you could just graph a 1% low and call it a day).
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Old 4th February 2019, 20:37   #1427  |  Link
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We get SSIM graphs with per-frame curves, so its not that of a "new" idea to also do that for VMAF or the likes.
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Old 5th February 2019, 00:56   #1428  |  Link
benwaggoner
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Originally Posted by Nintendo Maniac 64 View Post
I presume you mean (pun not intended) in a manner similar to frame-time graphs used in GPU performance benchmarks, or at least just also showing a 1% low? For a similar reason, they came about since showing the average frame rate hides any uneven frame delivery which is much more important to game playability.

The only thing is that such graphs would tend to be limited to having a single bitrate or quality setting since the bottom axis in such a situation would be time rather than bitrate.

...which might very well be why people don't do it - because they want to show a single graph with various differing bitrates rather than a really detailed graph but only at a single bitrate or quality setting.


EDIt: A 1% low graph would at least let you do this, but it would still also require making a second graph (unless you don't even care about the mean at all, in which case you could just graph a 1% low and call it a day).
Having a harmonic mean of the worst 0.1%, 1%, 10% would be quite useful, yes.

But the actual VMAF output is just per-frame scores, so anyone publishing a mean VMAF already has the data. Even if they don't want to plot the data, they could still make the log files available for download.
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Old 5th February 2019, 03:24   #1429  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benwaggoner View Post
Having a harmonic mean of the worst 0.1%, 1%, 10% would be quite useful, yes.

But the actual VMAF output is just per-frame scores, so anyone publishing a mean VMAF already has the data. Even if they don't want to plot the data, they could still make the log files available for download.
Log files and encoded videos are here.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nbnlsicvsl..._60fps.7z?dl=0

I am encoding it with tune ssim because I followed the instructions in this article.
https://www.streamingmedia.com/Artic...ok-127133.aspx

I may not be able to answer difficult questions as I am not good at English.

Last edited by fg118942; 6th February 2019 at 10:12. Reason: To indicate the existence of video
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Old 5th February 2019, 16:57   #1430  |  Link
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Originally Posted by hajj_3 View Post
x264 and x265 preset slower is not the right preset to use versus aomenc --cpu-used = 0 and SVT-AV1 enc-mode 0. This test should compare with x264, x265 --preset placebo. Better yet, forget objective metrics. Just show us the video, so we can judge for ourselves the bit rates that produce matching subjective quality.
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Old 6th February 2019, 10:03   #1431  |  Link
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Originally Posted by SmilingWolf View Post
I tested avif format with this photo
https://personal.sron.nl/~pault/imag...test_small.png
Avif file was different from source... (text wasn't readable), so i removed
Code:
--color-primaries=bt709 --transfer-characteristics=bt709 --matrix-coefficients=bt709
and result was ok. Why did you put this color profile?

I'm thinking about conversion my 12bit raw photos to avif. Is is possible? What pix_format shoul I use?
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Old 6th February 2019, 11:46   #1432  |  Link
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Originally Posted by TomV View Post
x264 and x265 preset slower is not the right preset to use versus aomenc --cpu-used = 0 and SVT-AV1 enc-mode 0. This test should compare with x264, x265 --preset placebo. Better yet, forget objective metrics. Just show us the video, so we can judge for ourselves the bit rates that produce matching subjective quality.
I thought that the point was right so I added placebo data.

Also, the video encoded with SVT-AV1 has been uploaded here.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nbnlsicvsl..._60fps.7z?dl=0
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Old 6th February 2019, 18:27   #1433  |  Link
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Old 6th February 2019, 21:05   #1434  |  Link
benwaggoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fg118942 View Post
Log files and encoded videos are here.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nbnlsicvsl..._60fps.7z?dl=0

I am encoding it with tune ssim because I followed the instructions in this article.
https://www.streamingmedia.com/Artic...ok-127133.aspx

I may not be able to answer difficult questions as I am not good at English.
Thank you!
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Old 6th February 2019, 21:07   #1435  |  Link
benwaggoner
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Originally Posted by kanaka View Post
I tested avif format with this photo
https://personal.sron.nl/~pault/imag...test_small.png
Avif file was different from source... (text wasn't readable), so i removed
Code:
--color-primaries=bt709 --transfer-characteristics=bt709 --matrix-coefficients=bt709
and result was ok. Why did you put this color profile?

I'm thinking about conversion my 12bit raw photos to avif. Is is possible? What pix_format shoul I use?
709==sRGB, so I am surprised it made a difference. Perhaps a 0-255 versus 16-235 luma range conversion? Making text unreadable would be a weird result, though.
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Old 6th February 2019, 21:09   #1436  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomV View Post
x264 and x265 preset slower is not the right preset to use versus aomenc --cpu-used = 0 and SVT-AV1 enc-mode 0. This test should compare with x264, x265 --preset placebo. Better yet, forget objective metrics. Just show us the video, so we can judge for ourselves the bit rates that produce matching subjective quality.
If we are comparing to very slower encoders, I recommend adding --tskip to x265 as well. That can help efficiency with text, cel animation, and other content with synthetically sharp edges.
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Old 7th February 2019, 08:48   #1437  |  Link
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Originally Posted by benwaggoner View Post
709==sRGB, so I am surprised it made a difference. Perhaps a 0-255 versus 16-235 luma range conversion? Making text unreadable would be a weird result, though.
check yourself http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/129605
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Old 7th February 2019, 11:07   #1438  |  Link
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Aha, looks like 601 vs 709 matrix. Although JPEG is normally sRGB primaries, it uses what is basically a full-range 601 matrix. So if your sources are JPEG, a 601 matrix makes the most sense.
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Old 7th February 2019, 11:23   #1439  |  Link
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Aha, looks like 601 vs 709 matrix. Although JPEG is normally sRGB primaries, it uses what is basically a full-range 601 matrix. So if your sources are JPEG, a 601 matrix makes the most sense.
Source is png (https://personal.sron.nl/~pault/imag...test_small.png)
and there is commands from encode.ST.sh
Code:
./bins/ffmpeg -r 1 -y -hide_banner -loglevel fatal -i "$1" -vf scale=out_color_matrix=bt709:flags=lanczos+accurate_rnd+bitexact+full_chroma_int+full_chroma_inp,format=yuv420p10le -strict -1 "temp/orig_$filename.y4m"
./bins/aomenc --threads=4 -v --cpu-used=4 --end-usage=q --cq-level=$quality --sharpness=7 --bit-depth=10 --full-still-picture-hdr --color-primaries=bt709 --transfer-characteristics=bt709 --matrix-coefficients=bt709 --ivf -o "encoded/$filename.ivf" "temp/orig_$filename.y4m"
//edit: I had older version of toolkit. New toolkit use yuv420p and works ok.

Last edited by kanaka; 7th February 2019 at 11:34.
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Old 7th February 2019, 19:57   #1440  |  Link
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Aha, looks like 601 vs 709 matrix. Although JPEG is normally sRGB primaries, it uses what is basically a full-range 601 matrix. So if your sources are JPEG, a 601 matrix makes the most sense.
sRGB uses 709, which itself is the average of the 601 PAL (EBU 3213) and NTSC (SMPTE C) primaries. As an industry, we should probably stop talking about "601 primaries" since there are actually two different ones, unless we use it as shorthand for "the primaries used by the original SD video format."

709 was the compromise for HD to make it "international" - as the average of the two, if 601 gets treated as 709 or vise versa, that minimizes the worst-case error compares to 601 PAL <> 601 NTSC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rec._7...chromaticities

As a parochial American, I thought 709 was dumb when it came out, but I have since gained the wisdom to appreciate its simple brilliance.
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