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Old 23rd November 2015, 20:00   #34361  |  Link
a8213711
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Originally Posted by chros View Post
You have to set it to lower resolution than its native resolution. (e.g. set to 1280xxxx on a 1920x1080 tv.)
But why do you want to do that? Do you have an old/slow gpu?
Do you mean in devices > display modes? But then for content the same resolution of my TV, will madVR do a downscaling only to see it upscaled again by TV?
I do have a slow GPU; right now I have Bilinear anyway...at least I want to see if my TV can do it better than Bilinear!
Would be good however to have a Disabled command in Upscale anyway!

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You don't have to uninstall them, just "install" the x64 flavors as well. E.g. Copy the mpc-hc x64 files into a different directory, then make it default if you like. MadVR automatically register the x64 filter. (I don't know about XySubFilter.) Then you can use both the x32 and x64 if you like (can be good if something isn't working well on one of them).
It can be good having 2 version at the same time, but after seeing the new works, I would like to have only 1 version, but since as you said the settings are the same will I have trouble uninstalling the x86?

Last edited by a8213711; 24th November 2015 at 10:05.
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Old 23rd November 2015, 22:05   #34362  |  Link
djsolidsnake86
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nope, stuttering here appears when using clone mode and 2 monitors
for madshi: i found that the stutters in fullscreen are caused by the fullscreen exclusive mode (only when i'm using 2 monitor cloned or extended)
by disabling the fullscr exclusive mode in madvr option no longer stutter

so i have a question: what are the advantages of the fullscreen mode over the windowed mode?
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Old 23rd November 2015, 23:06   #34363  |  Link
aufkrawall
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More control for the renderer, which is useful on Windows 7, as otherwise DWM is in power and it's not totally reliable with that OS.
Since Windows 8, windowed fullscreen is as reliable as exclusive mode for very most people. So it's totally ok not to use FSE.
Another advantage of FSE would be that it can make the GPU output 10 bit in DX11 mode, but that's not a great advantage either since madVR has very good dithering modes (ordered is fast & good).
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Old 24th November 2015, 12:05   #34364  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a8213711 View Post
Do you mean in devices > display modes? But then for content the same resolution of my TV, will madVR do a downscaling only to see it upscaled again by TV?
Yes and yes, only if you don't play the content of the chosen resolution of the display! (e.g. 720p content on 1280x720 / 1360*xxx resolution). That's how you can test it.
Otherwise if you use 1080p content on a 1080p resolution there's no image upscaling just chroma upscaling.
You can't get more speed then that (upscaling-wise). That's how could happen that on a 1080p display playing a full bluray disc is less stressful for the laptop/pc than playing e.g. a 720p content.
Try out FSE Old path, maybe you'll get more speed (see below).
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Originally Posted by a8213711 View Post
I do have a slow GPU; right now I have Bilinear anyway...at least I want to see if my TV can do it better than Bilinear!
Would be good however to have a Disabled command in Upscale anyway!
What GPU do you have? laptop or desktop?
Bilinear where? image or luma upscaling? with what content and display resolution?
If you'd disable upscaling, with an 720p contonet on a 1080p screen, the image will be only in the middle of the screen. I don't think that you want to do that
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Originally Posted by a8213711 View Post
It can be good having 2 version at the same time, but after seeing the new works, I would like to have only 1 version, but since as you said the settings are the same will I have trouble uninstalling the x86?
If you used an installer for MPC-HC then it can be a problem. Either you can make a backup of the appropriate regisrty entries before uninstallation or you can leave there the other one. If you just extracted it to a folder then you can delete it.
You won't have these problem with the filters (e.g. madvr), you can leave them there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djsolidsnake86 View Post
for madshi: i found that the stutters in fullscreen are caused by the fullscreen exclusive mode (only when i'm using 2 monitor cloned or extended)
by disabling the fullscr exclusive mode in madvr option no longer stutter

so i have a question: what are the advantages of the fullscreen mode over the windowed mode?
For me only clone mode produce problem (understandably) in FSE not extended.
A note to aufkrawall's post: on my system FSE Old Path is way faster than all the other modes, so depending on your config, you can have a huge performance gain with it. Just try it out, see whether it works for you or not.
- enable full screen exclusive mode, and on the full screen exclusive properties uncheck 'present frames in advance' (after this you should see it's activated in OSD, FSE (Old path))
In this mode you can't use NNEDI3 upscaler and there won't be 10bit playback.
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Last edited by chros; 24th November 2015 at 12:08.
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Old 24th November 2015, 14:07   #34365  |  Link
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Bug in MadVR plus XYSubFilter displaying upscaled VobSub subtitles

Hi
I think I have found a bug. I am using the last development version of MPC-HC with the last version of XYSubFilter and the last version of MadVR
The bug happens in MadVR plus XYSubFilter when displaying upscaled VobSub subtitles.
It is an anime episode, 848x480 internal resolution, MPEG4 (H264) video, softcoded VobSub subtitles.
When displaying the vid at 1x resolution the subtitles are correctly displayed at the bottom of the screen.
When the vid is at 50% resolution (in window mode) it doesn't show subtitles at all.
If the vid is upscaled, resolution 2x (window mode) or it is upscaled fullscreen at 1920x1080 the subtitles appear on the left and in the middle of the screen and the subtitles themselves are not upscaled (they appear with the same size than in the resolution 848x480).
MadVR with other subtitles filters (VSFilter and Internal MPCHC filter) display correctly the subtitles upscaled and the bottom of the screen.
The MPCHC Personalized Enhanced Video Renderer with XYSubFilter shows the subtitles correctly too.
You can see screenshots of the vid here with the subtitles. In all these screenshots I am using MPCHC, MadVR and XYSubFilter.
If you need more info, please, tell me.
http://www72.zippyshare.com/v/8bgIjJfZ/file.html
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Old 24th November 2015, 14:33   #34366  |  Link
djsolidsnake86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chros View Post
Yes and yes, only if you don't play the content of the chosen resolution of the display! (e.g. 720p content on 1280x720 / 1360*xxx resolution). That's how you can test it.
Otherwise if you use 1080p content on a 1080p resolution there's no image upscaling just chroma upscaling.
You can't get more speed then that (upscaling-wise). That's how could happen that on a 1080p display playing a full bluray disc is less stressful for the laptop/pc than playing e.g. a 720p content.
Try out FSE Old path, maybe you'll get more speed (see below).

What GPU do you have? laptop or desktop?
Bilinear where? image or luma upscaling? with what content and display resolution?
If you'd disable upscaling, with an 720p contonet on a 1080p screen, the image will be only in the middle of the screen. I don't think that you want to do that

If you used an installer for MPC-HC then it can be a problem. Either you can make a backup of the appropriate regisrty entries before uninstallation or you can leave there the other one. If you just extracted it to a folder then you can delete it.
You won't have these problem with the filters (e.g. madvr), you can leave them there.

For me only clone mode produce problem (understandably) in FSE not extended.
A note to aufkrawall's post: on my system FSE Old Path is way faster than all the other modes, so depending on your config, you can have a huge performance gain with it. Just try it out, see whether it works for you or not.
- enable full screen exclusive mode, and on the full screen exclusive properties uncheck 'present frames in advance' (after this you should see it's activated in OSD, FSE (Old path))
In this mode you can't use NNEDI3 upscaler and there won't be 10bit playback.
also with that option unchecked i have stutters!
the only way seem to not use fullscreen exclusive.. i don't see any disavantage in image quality
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Old 24th November 2015, 18:05   #34367  |  Link
aufkrawall
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Has anybody tried the new AMD Crimson driver with DX11 FSE?
It should limit prerendered frames for every application to 1, which might be a problem here.

If you report this to AMD, please ask them not to remove this feature completely, as it is extremely useful for games, but to implement options to be able to control it.
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Old 24th November 2015, 19:47   #34368  |  Link
har3inger
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Just installed and tested. No problems here with queues. (d3d11 8 bit)

Though I should mention I renamed my mpchc64.exe, so that my laptop doesn't force it to use power saving GPU profile.
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Old 24th November 2015, 20:11   #34369  |  Link
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Ok, so it seems that I got to make it sort of stable, now... I think I will install the Windows 10 EDU, my university gave me. I wonder if this will make a difference on how good madVR works.

I also wonder if that one is updated to the latest november update, as the changes seem for the better.
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Old 24th November 2015, 20:26   #34370  |  Link
aufkrawall
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Originally Posted by har3inger View Post
Just installed and tested. No problems here with queues. (d3d11 8 bit)

Though I should mention I renamed my mpchc64.exe, so that my laptop doesn't force it to use power saving GPU profile.
But you did use FSE?
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Old 24th November 2015, 23:21   #34371  |  Link
j5627429
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I scale everything to 4K.

On my setup, I have noticed that for content which is just shy of 1080p resolution (1916x1076), performance is drastically worse than with 1080p or even 720p. This has been the case since at least 89.12, maybe a version or two earlier than that.

I have to disable all (sXBR) image doubling for 1916x1076 to run smoothly at 3820x2160.
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Old 25th November 2015, 00:37   #34372  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Georgel View Post
Ok, so it seems that I got to make it sort of stable, now... I think I will install the Windows 10 EDU, my university gave me. I wonder if this will make a difference on how good madVR works.

I also wonder if that one is updated to the latest november update, as the changes seem for the better.
You will have to wait 31 days until you get the november update.
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Old 25th November 2015, 00:39   #34373  |  Link
Shiandow
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Originally Posted by j5627429 View Post
I scale everything to 4K.

On my setup, I have noticed that for content which is just shy of 1080p resolution (1916x1076), performance is drastically worse than with 1080p or even 720p. This has been the case since at least 89.12, maybe a version or two earlier than that.

I have to disable all (sXBR) image doubling for 1916x1076 to run smoothly at 3820x2160.
What upscaling algorithm do you use? Scaling 3832x2152 to 3840x2160 could be pretty taxing. Maybe your GPU is even running out of memory trying to do that, that would slow things down a lot.
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Old 25th November 2015, 03:24   #34374  |  Link
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What upscaling algorithm do you use? Scaling 3832x2152 to 3840x2160 could be pretty taxing. Maybe your GPU is even running out of memory trying to do that, that would slow things down a lot.
I also notice cropped videos (such as 1916 vs. 1920) cause madVR to work much harder. At 1080p -> 1080p, I was able to disable scaling of these files under zoom control to keep madVR from creeping over the rendering queue. I haven't noticed the same for 720p content, but I haven't been watching for strangely-cropped 720p videos.
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Old 25th November 2015, 08:35   #34375  |  Link
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I also notice cropped videos (such as 1916 vs. 1920) cause madVR to work much harder. At 1080p -> 1080p, I was able to disable scaling of these files under zoom control to keep madVR from creeping over the rendering queue. I haven't noticed the same for 720p content, but I haven't been watching for strangely-cropped 720p videos.
The cost of scaling is a function of number of input pixels and number of output pixels. So given a fixed output resolution, the higher the input res, the more work there is to do.

So keeping that in mind, scaling only a few pixels from 1916 to 1920 is the most expensive scaling operation it could do - especially if it otherwise wouldn't have to scale at all.

If it has to scale anyway, like from 720p -> 1080p, then cropping first doesn't add any extra cost to the scaling.
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Old 25th November 2015, 09:45   #34376  |  Link
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The cost of scaling is a function of number of input pixels and number of output pixels. So given a fixed output resolution, the higher the input res, the more work there is to do.

So keeping that in mind, scaling only a few pixels from 1916 to 1920 is the most expensive scaling operation it could do - especially if it otherwise wouldn't have to scale at all.

If it has to scale anyway, like from 720p -> 1080p, then cropping first doesn't add any extra cost to the scaling.
I am scaling quite a bit anyway for all of my video content, so why is there such a big difference in performance for a near-1080p resolution to 4K versus 1080p?

1920x1080 -> 3840x2160 = smooth playback
1280x718 -> 3840x2160 = smooth playback
1916x1076 -> 3840x2160 = extremely choppy ~1fps playback

The only way I can play back the 1916x1076 file smoothly is to greatly reduce super-xbr image doubling to only double or off (versus octuple that I normally use)

Last edited by j5627429; 25th November 2015 at 10:00.
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Old 25th November 2015, 09:48   #34377  |  Link
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What upscaling algorithm do you use? Scaling 3832x2152 to 3840x2160 could be pretty taxing. Maybe your GPU is even running out of memory trying to do that, that would slow things down a lot.
I am using:

Image Upscaling: Lanczos 4-tap
Image Doubling: Octuple luma/chroma super-xbr 150

Zoom Control is set to "disable scaling if image size changes by only...15 lines or less"

GPU is AMD 7970

Last edited by j5627429; 25th November 2015 at 09:52.
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Old 25th November 2015, 09:54   #34378  |  Link
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Originally Posted by j5627429 View Post
I am scaling quite a bit anyway for all of my video content, so why is there such a big difference in performance for a near-1080p resolution to 4K versus 1080p?

1920x1080 -> 3840x2160 = smooth playback
1280x718 -> 3840x2160 = smooth playback
1916x1076 -> 3840x2160 = extremely choppy ~1fps playback
If you are using image doubling, that would make the difference of just using doubling, or using doubling and requiring a second scaling pass afterwards.
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Old 25th November 2015, 11:22   #34379  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djsolidsnake86 View Post
... i don't see any disavantage in image quality
There isn't as madshi stated couple of months ago.

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Originally Posted by j5627429 View Post
... so why is there such a big difference in performance for a near-1080p resolution to 4K versus 1080p?
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
If you are using image doubling, that would make the difference of just using doubling, or using doubling and requiring a second scaling pass afterwards.
And the OSD should report this so you can double check it.
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Old 25th November 2015, 11:59   #34380  |  Link
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the OSD does report it.
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direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

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