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Old 25th May 2009, 12:31   #1201  |  Link
leeperry
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humm, you really expect any display to accept 600Hz?

double framerate would already be fantastic, through the GPU I mean...YADIF does it in ffdshow, but it's very CPU consuming.
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Old 25th May 2009, 12:34   #1202  |  Link
leeperry
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what I personnaly would like to see is the ability to specify different SD/HD LUT's depending on the display...so no need to swap them on the fly when you switch displays.

HR will let you set different convergence settings depending on the display, and they have different names in the Windows Device Manager(HR identifies them through this).
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Old 25th May 2009, 12:57   #1203  |  Link
tetsuo55
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Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
humm, you really expect any display to accept 600Hz?

double framerate would already be fantastic, through the GPU I mean...YADIF does it in ffdshow, but it's very CPU consuming.
Ofcourse not, the magic of 600 means you can downsample to any native display refresh rate without judder or pulldown
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Old 25th May 2009, 13:04   #1204  |  Link
leeperry
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Originally Posted by tetsuo55 View Post
Ofcourse not, the magic of 600 means you can downsample to any native display refresh rate without judder or pulldown
so you want to create interleaved frames at 600fps, then dither down to 60? ah well, I like exact double framerate sometimes, but 23.976@60 is an artifacts feast.

if you like uber-smooth algos, maybe the Sony MotionFlow is your best option...as it seems to offer far better results than the competition(let alone PC software).

on the VW200, the picture goes 24fps@120Hz then is displayed at 240Hz(the LCD panels run at 2X refresh rate)....your movies will look pretty darn smooth

they also offer it in flat screens I think.
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Old 25th May 2009, 13:08   #1205  |  Link
tetsuo55
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Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
so you want to create interleaved frames at 600fps, then dither down to 60? ah well, I like exact double framerate sometimes, but 23.976@60 is an artifacts feast.

if you like uber-smooth algos, maybe the Sony MotionFlow is your best option...as it seems to offer far better results than the competition(let alone PC software).

on the VW200, the picture goes 24fps@120Hz then is displayed at 240Hz(the LCD panels run at 2X refresh rate)....your movies will look pretty darn smooth

they also offer it in flat screens I think.
Yeah thats exactly the point, and indeed, sony proves it can be done. I would like to be able to have full control over it by having the pc do it instead of the display
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Old 25th May 2009, 13:13   #1206  |  Link
leeperry
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well 24X5=120X2=240, they always use multiples. 23.976@60 is prone to fail, even if you go 600 in between(and prolly worse actually due to artefacts)

but double frame rate via GPU would be awesome!
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Old 25th May 2009, 13:31   #1207  |  Link
tetsuo55
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Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
well 24X5=120X2=240, they always use multiples. 23.976@60 is prone to fail, even if you go 600 in between(and prolly worse actually due to artefacts)

but double frame rate via GPU would be awesome!
Well i use content in the following formats:
24 fps
25 fps
30 fps
60 fps

The only way to get these equal is 600 hz
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Old 25th May 2009, 13:39   #1208  |  Link
leeperry
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you can't have a "one size fits all" in video, as you know...if you play 23.976/24/25/29.97/59.94, you'll have to play around w/ the refresh rate(+Reclock )

even MotionFlow won't let you do that.

and interleaving to 600fps, then dither down to 60 sounds dubious tbh...anyway, I'm quite sure madshi won't like the sound of that.

you can still interleave everything to 60fps, and hope for the best(or should I say: the worst).
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Old 25th May 2009, 13:43   #1209  |  Link
tetsuo55
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Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
you can't have a "one size fits all" in video, as you know...if you play 23.976/24/25/29.97/59.94, you'll have to play around w/ the refresh rate(+Reclock )

even MotionFlow won't let you do that.

and interleaving to 600fps, then dither down to 60 sounds dubious tbh...anyway, I'm quite sure madshi won't like the sound of that.

you can still interleave everything to 60fps, and hope for the best(or should I say: the worst).
Yeah its a lossy process, interleaving to 60fps will just make things wose.

the interpolation method i'm suggesting will create new frames (not copy existing ones) by calculating the difference between the next and the last frame and interpolating a new frame based on that information (exactly how motionflow stuff works)
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Old 25th May 2009, 13:49   #1210  |  Link
leeperry
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there's many ways to create new frames in ffdshow to whatever double framerate or simply 23.976@60...it looks ugly on fast movements.

I like double frame rate on slow videos

indeed, some sort of GPU accelerated trimension would be great, but madshi has a pretty busy agenda...and mVR already puts slow GPU's on their knees apparently.

Last edited by leeperry; 25th May 2009 at 17:59.
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Old 25th May 2009, 14:05   #1211  |  Link
Jong
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This sounds highly undesriable to me. All this will guarantee is that none of the real frames captured lovingly bythe filmaker make it onto your screen. I'm not even convinced by interpolating to 120Hz.

I just want something as close to cinema experience, i.e. straight forward double or triple shuttering of 24p stuff, that is until/if the film directors themselves decide it improves their art to move to a higher frame rate. So changing frame rates between 24p and 60Hz material will be a must for me for the forseeable future.
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Old 25th May 2009, 14:15   #1212  |  Link
leeperry
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well for non-movies, double framerate is awesome...like swimsuits competitions/documentaries/etc
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Old 25th May 2009, 14:22   #1213  |  Link
Jong
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Yeah, I don't have a problem for non-24p stuff. But that probably makes up about 5% of my HTPC viewing. But maybe that's just me?
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Old 25th May 2009, 16:11   #1214  |  Link
cheetah111
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@madshi, yesgrey3

Here is a strange situation:
PC1:
WIN XP SP3
NET Framework 3.5 SP1
DIRECTX Redistributable March 2009
C2DUO 8400
ATI 4850 512MB
Catalyst 8.7
MPC-HC svn 1120
Haali Media Splitter, Ffdshow included in K-Lite 4.8.0 (only codecs installed – no MPC-HC)

PC2:
WIN XP SP3
NET Framework 3.5 SP1
DIRECTX Redistributable March 2009
C2DUO 6600
ATI 3850 512MB
Catalyst 8.7
MPC-HC svn 1120
Haali Media Splitter, Ffdshow included in K-Lite 4.8.0 (only codecs installed – no MPC-HC)

1. When I select the use 3dlut option in madVR 0.10 I get the error “opening 3dlut file failed” on the 1st pc but on the second everything works fine. From 2 days of searching the only difference seems the graphic card model. I will search more because it drives me crazy. Luckily my pc2 is my htpc connected to a PANASONIC 42 inch PZ80EA (European model 60 Hz) tv.

2. Also the picture on my pc2 obtained from the filter combination: Haali Media Splitter, Ffdshow, madVR, although very nice, seems a little dark compared to what I see from the filter combination: Haali Media Splitter, CyberLink H.264/AVC decoder (PDVD8), vmr9 renderless. If someone could make CyberLink H.264/AVC decoder (PDVD8) output YV12 then I would be very very happy. Anyway, the MadVR quality is very good and the movies run smooth on both pcs.

3. Which decoders can be used with madVR? I know ffdshow and WMVideo Decoder DMO can be used.

4. Another remark: madVR version 0.1, 0.2, … , 0.9, 1.0 So is 0.10 a step back to the start as 0.10=0.1 ?

Last edited by cheetah111; 25th May 2009 at 16:26.
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Old 25th May 2009, 17:46   #1215  |  Link
Egh
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Ofcourse not, the magic of 600 means you can downsample to any native display refresh rate without judder or pulldown
How come?

E.g. if I use 85Hz? ) it has 17 as a factor and 600 doesn't
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Old 25th May 2009, 18:09   #1216  |  Link
tetsuo55
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How come?

E.g. if I use 85Hz? ) it has 17 as a factor and 600 doesn't
85 is not a default standard refresh rate, i should have been more clear:

24, 30, 50, 60. (and all their duplicates)

My CRT monitor is using 85hz too, but i don't watch any media on it.
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Old 25th May 2009, 20:19   #1217  |  Link
Egh
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85 is not a default standard refresh rate, i should have been more clear:

24, 30, 50, 60. (and all their duplicates)

My CRT monitor is using 85hz too, but i don't watch any media on it.
Well so did you derive 600Hz value as a LCM for framerates or refresh rates?

If the latter, then 85 is not included. As for the 85Hz refresh rate, on my CRT I used that with HR and found it best setting for mVR as well. 75Hz is sub-standard (and generally not recommended at a work place by standards for CRT) and 100Hz sometimes may be counter-productive in terms of video smoothness (imo owning to a fact that it may take 5 vsync intervals for a single frame). I have dual-monitor setup and 85Hz on CRT seems smoother than 60Hz on LCD.
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Old 25th May 2009, 21:13   #1218  |  Link
tetsuo55
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Well so did you derive 600Hz value as a LCM for framerates or refresh rates?

If the latter, then 85 is not included. As for the 85Hz refresh rate, on my CRT I used that with HR and found it best setting for mVR as well. 75Hz is sub-standard (and generally not recommended at a work place by standards for CRT) and 100Hz sometimes may be counter-productive in terms of video smoothness (imo owning to a fact that it may take 5 vsync intervals for a single frame). I have dual-monitor setup and 85Hz on CRT seems smoother than 60Hz on LCD.
it's all purely based on existing video standards.

24/25/30/50/60 all fit in 600
600 would be the processing framerate, interpolating frames where needed. Then showing the needed frames in the single standard video refreshrate the display uses.

In my case it would be ANY>600>60
But as jong pointed out, in most cases i would be watching purely interpolated frames, and almost no real original frames
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Old 25th May 2009, 21:56   #1219  |  Link
honai
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... which means that, for instance, in case of soccer games you might not see the ball at all. Which is exactly what happens on most >100Hz LCD displays today.
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Old 25th May 2009, 21:58   #1220  |  Link
tetsuo55
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... which means that, for instance, in case of soccer games you might not see the ball at all. Which is exactly what happens on most >100Hz LCD displays today.
thats just funny
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