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Old 5th July 2018, 21:28   #51641  |  Link
Asmodian
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Nothing switchs to a 25 Hz mode when playing 50 Hz content. You would have to drop half the frames.
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Old 5th July 2018, 22:19   #51642  |  Link
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I think the AMD RX 580 is a good used buy right now, £160 gets me NGU sharp very high on chroma and NGU sharp high on upscaling, sub 30ms rendering times.

very pleased with that.
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Old 5th July 2018, 22:29   #51643  |  Link
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Gonna make the jump to 2160p and my 7850 won't hold a candle to it, FWIR here Polaris isn't too happy about NGU so how about a 80 bucks refurb R9 380 with 6 months warranty?

I only care about mVR so benchmarks appear to be irrelevant for mVR purposes? 7850 is da bomb with 13.12 drivers @1080p, I want the same but for 2160p and not for 200 bucks either if any possible
Any advice fellas?
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Old 5th July 2018, 22:37   #51644  |  Link
mclingo
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dont think that card is a true 4k card, you'll only get a sub 60hz desktop at 4k, fine if you're not using your HTPC for anything else but I wonder if you'll have other issues with it not being a full 4k card with the increased HDMI bandwidth, you'll need to look into that.

you could pickup an RX 460 for about 60, you'll get NGU sharp low around 30ms rendering, that What I was getting prior.

EDIT pretty sure its HDMI 1.4 spec, unless there was a late HDMI 2.0 version?

Last edited by mclingo; 5th July 2018 at 22:40.
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Old 5th July 2018, 23:29   #51645  |  Link
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HDMI 1.4 is pretty limiting for 4k, 24/30hz and 8 bit color max. For HDMI 2.0 you need at least 4xx series.
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Old 6th July 2018, 00:00   #51646  |  Link
Asmodian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
I think the AMD RX 580 is a good used buy right now, £160 gets me NGU sharp very high on chroma and NGU sharp high on upscaling, sub 30ms rendering times.
It is odd to use very high for chroma but only high for image upscaling. In my testing I preferred NGU high over very high for chroma, it seems to look the same or better and uses a lot less power.

I suppose you have enough GPU power for very high for chroma but even using low for chroma upscaling you cannot use NGU very high for image upscaling?

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HDMI 1.4 is pretty limiting for 4k, 24/30hz and 8 bit color max. For HDMI 2.0 you need at least 4xx series.
Also the hardware decoders are not as good, 4K 10 bit HEVC takes a lot of CPU if you have to use software decoding.
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Old 6th July 2018, 01:52   #51647  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
I think the AMD RX 580 is a good used buy right now, £160 gets me NGU sharp very high on chroma and NGU sharp high on upscaling, sub 30ms rendering times.

very pleased with that.
Save your resources and drop back to just high (chroma) The difference isn't worth it, it's quite minimal and I'm pretty picky.

Oh Asmodian beat me to it. Good man.
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Old 6th July 2018, 03:43   #51648  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strumf666 View Post
HDMI 1.4 is pretty limiting for 4k, 24/30hz and 8 bit color max. For HDMI 2.0 you need at least 4xx series.
you can do 12 bit with HDMI 1.4 at UHD
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Old 6th July 2018, 05:07   #51649  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
I think the AMD RX 580 is a good used buy right now, £160 gets me NGU sharp very high on chroma and NGU sharp high on upscaling, sub 30ms rendering times.

very pleased with that.
Itís a card that could make you take up video games. With games, it sometimes outperforms the GTX 1060. Itís not surprising that it has enough power to handle madVR.
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Old 6th July 2018, 06:29   #51650  |  Link
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you can do 12 bit with HDMI 1.4 at UHD
Perhaps with crappy subsampling and at 23,967Hz. Considering a large portion of this thread is about how practically none of commercially available screens are able to properly display >8bit colors and reduced picture quality because of subsampling I would count this as irrelevant, but that is just my opinion. Oh and I almost forgot the potential for flickering when the camera is panning if the display isn't able to properly display 23,976Hz since higher refresh rate isn't possible at this settings.
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Old 6th July 2018, 06:36   #51651  |  Link
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RGB 12 bit UHD 30 HZ is the maximum that's about 9 GB of the 10GB.

flickering, LCD and refreshrate?
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Old 6th July 2018, 06:47   #51652  |  Link
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1.4 bandwithd is 8.16Gbit/s?

Find a crappy display incapable of properly displaying 23,976 and a clip with a panning scene... flickers like crazy. Then set the refresh to 60 and flickering stops.
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Old 6th July 2018, 07:02   #51653  |  Link
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it'd depends on how you look at it 8/10 encoding.
it'S 10 vs 18 or 8 vs 14.4.
sample hold displays don't flicker end of story i know what you are talking about "judder" but 60 hz doesn't fix this it's madVR fixing this issue.
and mybe it was 24/25 only.
and to be fair the HDMI spec is not crystal clear. 4:2:0 is only part of 50/60 HZ and doesn't work with lower refreshrates.
and 10 bit or higher may only work at HDMI chips with HDMI 2.0 "support" like nvidia has.
not here to promote HDMI 1.4 HDMI 2.0 is clearly better and it would be sad if this isn't the case but this doesn't change that devices try to run in a mode that has the bandwidth of HDMI 1.4.
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Old 6th July 2018, 07:12   #51654  |  Link
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Fair enough.
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Old 6th July 2018, 11:25   #51655  |  Link
mclingo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
It is odd to use very high for chroma but only high for image upscaling. In my testing I preferred NGU high over very high for chroma, it seems to look the same or better and uses a lot less power.

I suppose you have enough GPU power for very high for chroma but even using low for chroma upscaling you cannot use NGU very high for image upscaling?



Also the hardware decoders are not as good, 4K 10 bit HEVC takes a lot of CPU if you have to use software decoding.
I tired that first but it NGU very high on upscaling pushes rendering over 30ms for 1080p material, still doable i guess, I could create some profiles in MADVR but I prefer to keep things simple.

I think i'll drop to high though anyway as the card gets a tad noisy with the weather the way it is right now, it was 30degrees in my lounge last night, I could fry an egg on my HTPC !..

Thanks all for your responses.
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Old 6th July 2018, 14:56   #51656  |  Link
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Yeah I will prefer to keep max at ~30ms or so as well, otherwise things get a bit toasty in my HTPC as well as the fan speed ramping up to levels I'd rather them not be at.
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Old 7th July 2018, 00:16   #51657  |  Link
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Any, advice on MadVR / nvidia settings and versions for JVC X7500? After trying different combos of versions and settings I can't seem to find a combo that:
- Minimises Repeated Frames (eg custom modes or a nvidia version that is close)
- NVidia Settings that stick for RGB 12-Bit for both UHD@23.796 / YCbCr422 for UHD@50/60p (or just RGB 8-Bit as I only have the one UHD HDR BD @ 60p)
- Windows HDR that does not keep turning ON when the video finishes playing and you are back to the desktop

If the above can not be done, should I try HDR to SDR conversion in madVR, or... just use YCbCr422 for all resolutions, or.... ?

Currently I'm also "stuck" on madVR V92.4 (that comes bundled with JRiver) as the most recent madVR versions have a bug where Menu Item Text can be drawn off screen.... I've a 1070 on this HTPC.
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Old 7th July 2018, 01:39   #51658  |  Link
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- NVidia Settings that stick for RGB 12-Bit for both UHD@23.796 / YCbCr422 for UHD@50/60p (or just RGB 8-Bit as I only have the one UHD HDR BD @ 60p)
Use 8-bit RGB with ordered or error diffusion dithering. High quality dithering keeps much of the data from madVR's 16 bit internal bitdepth, preventing banding and adding very little noise when converting to 8 bit. This is the highest quality option, much better than using 4:2:2.

However, this is assuming your projector does not use 4:2:2 internally. Use the http://madshi.net/madVR/ChromaRes.png. It is 1920x1080, view it at 100%, no zoom/resize.

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- Windows HDR that does not keep turning ON when the video finishes playing and you are back to the desktop
I never have any issues with this, with a Titan XP connected to a 2017 LG OLED TV. Do you ever turn it on? Leave it disabled.

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If the above can not be done, should I try HDR to SDR conversion in madVR, or... just use YCbCr422 for all resolutions, or.... ?
My TV works better with 8 bit input, I have more banding with 12 bit, but that is my TV's fault.

However, I would still much rather send my TV 8 bit RGB over 12 bit 4:2:2, unless it was in a mode that used 4:2:2 processing internally, even for HDR. Using 4:2:2 blurs two out of three image planes to 50% of their resolution horizontally. This damages the two chroma planes a lot. Humans do see color weirdly but this is still worse than well dithered 8 bit. The source is 4:2:0 but madVR has very good chroma upscaling, especially with a 1070.
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Last edited by Asmodian; 7th July 2018 at 01:42.
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Old 7th July 2018, 02:01   #51659  |  Link
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Thanks but the JVC can not take 8-BIT with HDR content (you get a Purple Push over the image).
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Old 7th July 2018, 02:07   #51660  |  Link
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Does it use 4:2:2 internally if you send it 12 bit RGB?
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