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Old 20th March 2018, 18:35   #49641  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
It would be nice if someone could clarify the requirements for 3D. I always try to pass this on to others. It started out much simpler.
Apparently different things work for different people. There is no clear works-for-everyone explanation. For me 3D even works without FSE, despite everyone claiming otherwise above. Then again I don't actually use 3D beyond testing if it still works.
It also auto-switches the flag on and off properly.
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Last edited by nevcairiel; 20th March 2018 at 19:08.
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Old 20th March 2018, 18:50   #49642  |  Link
brazen1
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Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
It would be nice if someone could clarify the requirements for 3D. I always try to pass this on to others. It started out much simpler.
As far as what? Assuming you play 2D, SBS and TAB require nothing more than a 3D display. Containers are where complications arise, mainly frame packed MVC.

A 3D.mkv will still play anywhere a 2D will but you will not have menus. A 3D.iso (frame packed IE) requires a compliant player. MPC players are compliant using madVR + LAV Filter decoding without menus. PDVD is the only other player afaik and it's with menus. A way to mount the iso is a consideration. W10 has this built in. Other O/S's do not. Some players have a built in virtual mount, some don't and require one is added and to mount and dismount automatically. Either way, both use a drive letter visible or invisible.

With AMD, it's reported their drivers sort everything out properly and automatically. Whether or not this is true or other caveats remain, I do not know.

Intel graphics requires HDMI 1.4 and 2.0 is not backwards compatible. Considering UHD requires 2.0 minimum, users have to choose one or the other or manually swap ports.

Nvidia requires stereoscopic enabled globally (Windows O/S) AND NVidia control panel stereoscopic enabled. I assume madVR 'when playing 3D content (engage)' is global only) and why I need to use a .bat (front end initiated for automation) to auto switch instead of manual switch nvstlink.exe aka stereoscopic in NCP.

FSE vs windowed is hit or miss recommending FSE works for everyone and windowed works for some only. May be specific to GPU versions and not necessarily shared drivers.

Can't think of anything else pertinent unless you have a specific question?
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Last edited by brazen1; 20th March 2018 at 19:10.
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Old 20th March 2018, 19:04   #49643  |  Link
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While on the subject of madVR not enabling stereoscopic at driver level or NVidia drivers doing what they should so external means doesn't have to pick up the slack, you are familiar with DSPlayer, a popular front end said to perform pretty flawless. In this stereoscopic automated aspect, does it perform? If not, can a playercorefactory be used with DSP like it can with the official version?
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Old 20th March 2018, 19:39   #49644  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bran View Post
I have madVR set to "HDR Passthrough". In the OSD I see madVR converting BT2020 -> DCI-P3 for UHD HDR BT2020 material. Is this correct, and if that's the case, why? Monitor set to BT2020 calibrated.
It's not converted to DCI-P3. It just lets you know that the content was mastered to DCI-P3 using a BT-2020 container. So you are correct to use a BT2020 calibration.

I suggested to Madshi to change the sign he uses to convey this information, as I think it is confusing to many users, but for some reason he didn't think it was confusing so it's stayed like that because he is the boss .

Quote:
Originally Posted by FDisk80 View Post
There was some bug that messed it up after reboot a couple of drivers ago, but with the last 2 drivers it seems to stick after reboot.

On the other side they completely broke the Custom Resolutions in the last 3 driver releases. Nothing sticks. Reboot or no reboot.
It would be nice if people could refrain from making blanket statements such as this. Yes, new drivers often break things for some. Yes, sometimes they break things for the majority.

But as far as I'm concerned, the latest 390.x drivers work fine, at least in 4K. I'm set to 4K23p with a custom refresh mode created by MadVR giving me a frame drop every 1-2 hours, and I use RGB 12bits 4:4:4. When I play 4K60p, the driver swaps automatically to 8bits 4:4:4. That survives a reboot and works fine here, as it has always done.

There are two limitations that I am aware of:

1) Like all the drivers after 285.28, you have to select 12bits from a non custom refresh mode. Once a custom refresh mode is selected, the resolution is greyed out and can't be changed, but it's still 12bits in 23p and 8bits in 60p if 12bits was selected from a non-custom refresh mode (at 30p max).

2) Compatibility is broken with Asio4all and most Asio drivers. Thanks to a kind member, I was able to find Flexasio, which works fine with some limitations.

So instead of making blanket statements simply because it doesn't work for you, please post details about your rig (OS version and build, GPU model, driver version) so that we can see if there is a common link between those for whom 390.x works fine, and those for whom 390.x doesn't work.

My rig is detailed in my sig.

By the way, 391.24 was just released today, I'm about to try it.
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Last edited by Manni; 20th March 2018 at 19:46.
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Old 20th March 2018, 19:50   #49645  |  Link
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Perhaps the key to make it stick after reboot is that you are using custom resolutions and others are not, including myself. But if this makes the difference, I will be using custom resolutions, as much as I don't prefer to, in a heart beat.
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Old 20th March 2018, 19:56   #49646  |  Link
Manni
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Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
Perhaps the key to make it stick after reboot is that you are using custom resolutions and others are not, including myself. But if this makes the difference, I will be using custom resolutions, as much as I don't prefer to, in a heart beat.
I'm not using custom resolutions, I'm using custom refresh mode created by MadVR. I can't think of any downside to doing this (apart from the fact that the custom mode is called 24p and not 23p, which can be confusing, but that's an nVidia bug).

Without a custom refresh mode, I get a frame drop every 5mn.

With a custom refresh mode, I get a frame drop every 1-2 hours.

Not really a question of choice, the GPU is unusable for video playback without it.

I also always do a DDU + Advanced/Clean install of the drivers, in case it helps. This means I re-create my custom refresh mode and set my parameters in NV CP after each driver install.
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Old 20th March 2018, 20:15   #49647  |  Link
brazen1
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Sorry. I admit my terminology ignorance at times. "Custom refresh modes". "Not really a question of choice, the GPU is unusable for video playback without it." That is a blanket statement, lol.
I've been using DDU advanced for my last 20 or so driver changes also. I reco it with you too. Good suggestion. I know how much work it is to clean, install, adjust, and test. And should it fail, do that all over again to revert. Would you be so kind as to report your findings back here on the new driver? I confess, I'm lazy today but a positive confirmation will motivate me and crossing fingers your success will reflect for myself especially regarding 3D (I know you require) and 8/12bit retention. TIA.
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Old 20th March 2018, 20:17   #49648  |  Link
Manni
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I've just made a note of the steps I follow to update the driver:

1) Reboot Windows in safe mode and run DDU to clean the old driver
2) Install the new driver with advanced / clean install
3) In NV control panel, select adaptive instead of optimal, set nvidia parameters to RGB Full 4:4:4 12bits and select 4K30p refresh rate (standard UHD resolution for me). Setup Digital Audio (7.1 or Atmos, disable all enhancements).
4) In MadVR display/custom modes tab, create a custom mode for 23p (follow the instructions in the first post to do this). I simply use the EDID/CTA set which gives me a frame drop every 1-2 hours, from a frame drop every 5mn with a standard resolution.
5) Reset the GPU with MadVR
6) Select the 4K23p custom mode (you might need to reboot before it appears in the list of custom resolutions). The bit depth is greyed out but it's still 12bits. You cannot change it with post 385.28 unless you select a standard mode, but it should switch to 8bits automatically if you play 60p content, and swap back to 12bits afterward. At least that's how it works here.
7) 3D only works here with batch files. Anything else doesn't stick, at least here. I also need FSE (only for 3D), otherwise, it switches to 1080p23FP but the picture is still in 2D. I provided the details of the batch files somewhere in this thread.

If this doesn't work for you, please provide the detail of your rig as requested earlier (OS version and build, GPU model and driver, HDMI version supported, default resolution / refresh rate) so we can see if there is a common pattern.

If it does work for you, please do the same. I'm hoping I'm not the only one for whom this works!

I have only tested this with a default resolution of 4K23p. It might not work with a default resolution of 1080p (although in this case you should be able to keep 12bits all the time, so not sure why there should be an issue).
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Last edited by Manni; 20th March 2018 at 22:49.
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Old 20th March 2018, 20:22   #49649  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
"Not really a question of choice, the GPU is unusable for video playback without it." That is a blanket statement, lol.
Correct
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Old 20th March 2018, 22:17   #49650  |  Link
brazen1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
I'm set to 4K23p with a custom refresh mode created by MadVR giving me a frame drop every 1-2 hours, and I use RGB 12bits 4:4:4. When I play 4K60p, the driver swaps automatically to 8bits 4:4:4.
Things are different for me: I don't use any custom refresh modes. For this particular test, you can see the result - no dropped frames. What you see logged is from the very start of the video. Also, I use the same RGB 8/12bit 4:4:4. Except when I play 4K60p, the driver swaps automatically to 10BIT 4:4:4, not 8bit in this video mode. Desktop mode snaps to 8bit to conform with Windows as it should. 10bit also snaps for all other resolutions such as 23/24/25 Hz when applicable. Note this is FSE with 59.940fps @60Hz. Never uploaded a file here so bear with me if it doesn't upload.

Here is a direct link. Maybe this will work?

https://i.imgur.com/QuV5CVT.jpg

Name:  QuV5CVT.jpg
Views: 186
Size:  161.8 KB
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65JS8500 UHD HDR 3D

Last edited by brazen1; 21st March 2018 at 01:47.
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Old 20th March 2018, 22:31   #49651  |  Link
Manni
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Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
Things are different for me: I don't use any custom refresh modes. For this particular test, you can see the result - no dropped frames. What you see logged is from the very start of the video. Also, I use the same RGB 8/12bit 4:4:4. Except when I play 4K60p, the driver swaps automatically to 10BIT 4:4:4, not 8bit in this video mode. Desktop mode snaps to 8bit to conform with Windows as it should. 10bit also snaps for all other resolutions such as 23/24/25 Hz when applicable. Note this is FSE with 59.940fps @60Hz. Never uploaded a file here so bear with me if it doesn't upload.
HDMI 2.0 doesn't support 4K60p 4:4:4 at 10bits, it's above the 18Gb/s limitation, so it can't work. You have to output 8bits at 4K60p.

Have you selected 8bits in 4K60p when playing a first 4K60p video with a standard resolution? I think that's how the driver knows what to switch to in the first place, but I could be wrong.

Attachments here take ages to be approved, so better use other means (simplest is a link to an unlisted Youtube/Vimeo video). There is no need for a video, I believe you

Instead, can you list the information I suggested to list if the steps I outlined don't work for you?
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Old 20th March 2018, 22:36   #49652  |  Link
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I just installed the new Nvidia drivers for my GTX 1080 without using DDU or Clean Install. I created a restore point first, just in case.

Once again, the madVR custom refresh rate entries were still there, but not working. For each one, I clicked Optimize, ran the test and saved the change (no change, actually), then rebooted. Played a test movie, and the refresh rate changed as it should have.

I did this for each entry that I use (only three), and all is working normally now. So basically a new Nvidia driver includes a 3-reboot penalty for my setup, but I can install over the old version and keep my Nvidia and OS settings.
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Old 20th March 2018, 22:55   #49653  |  Link
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Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
Things are different for me: I don't use any custom refresh modes. For this particular test, you can see the result - no dropped frames. What you see logged is from the very start of the video. Also, I use the same RGB 8/12bit 4:4:4. Except when I play 4K60p, the driver swaps automatically to 10BIT 4:4:4, not 8bit in this video mode. Desktop mode snaps to 8bit to conform with Windows as it should. 10bit also snaps for all other resolutions such as 23/24/25 Hz when applicable. Note this is FSE with 59.940fps @60Hz. Never uploaded a file here so bear with me if it doesn't upload.

Attachment 16273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
HDMI 2.0 doesn't support 4K60p 4:4:4 at 10bits, it's above the 18Gb/s limitation, so it can't work. You have to output 8bits at 4K60p.

Have you selected 8bits in 4K60p when playing a first 4K60p video with a standard resolution? I think that's how the driver knows what to switch to in the first place, but I could be wrong.

Attachments here take ages to be approved, so better use other means (simplest is a link to an unlisted Youtube/Vimeo video). There is no need for a video, I believe you

Instead, can you list the information I suggested to list if the steps I outlined don't work for you?
So, I should ignore what madVR OSD shows, display info shows, and NVidia control panel shows? I agree it supposed to be impossible. But.....

I don't select anything before playing anything. I just play it and the rest happens behind the scenes.

I see my attachment if I log out or click on the pending attachment itself. I tried uploading many different ways direct from an uploaded url and straight from my PC. Then cropped to 200KB. Still won't go real time. I'm not good at uploading attachments cuz I've seen others do it right away. Sorry.

I updated my sig for the info you wanted. I'd give more but it's limited to 200 characters. What other info that's not there now would you suggest?
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Old 20th March 2018, 23:09   #49654  |  Link
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Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
While on the subject of madVR not enabling stereoscopic at driver level or NVidia drivers doing what they should so external means doesn't have to pick up the slack, you are familiar with DSPlayer, a popular front end said to perform pretty flawless. In this stereoscopic automated aspect, does it perform? If not, can a playercorefactory be used with DSP like it can with the official version?
I tested 3D once with DSPlayer. It worked as designed. If not, you can use a playercorefactory with other media players. It is no different than regular Kodi.
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Old 20th March 2018, 23:20   #49655  |  Link
Manni
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Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
So, I should ignore what madVR OSD shows, display info shows, and NVidia control panel shows? I agree it supposed to be impossible. But.....

I don't select anything before playing anything. I just play it and the rest happens behind the scenes.

I see my attachment if I log out or click on the pending attachment itself. I tried uploading many different ways direct from an uploaded url and straight from my PC. Then cropped to 200KB. Still won't go real time. I'm not good at uploading attachments cuz I've seen others do it right away. Sorry.

I updated my sig for the info you wanted. I'd give more but it's limited to 200 characters. What other info that's not there now would you suggest?
What I meant was that you should select a standard mode at 60p, play a 4K60p video and select 8bits. Then the nVidia CP should remember this and switch to that mode automatically whenever you ask to play 4K60p. Once again, 10bits is NOT a valid choice at 4K60p, I don't even think the driver would allow you to select it. The only selectable/valid option should be 8bits when playing 4K60p content. Also make sure that your cables are up to the task as you'll get as close as can be to the 18Gb/s limit with 4K60p 4:4:4 8bits.

Nvidia CP you should ignore, it's greyed out in 4K60p if you are using a custom refresh mode. I have no idea if the above works with standard res. I'm only reporting what works for me.

MadVR you should ignore too. It tells you the way the video is encoded (10bits 4:20 for UHD bluray) or the way it dithers (10bits or 8bits), but it has no idea how you've set your GPU output. By the way you need to use profiles to select 8bit dithering for 4K60p if you use 10bits dithering for 30p and below content, otherwise the GPU is dithering behind MadVR's back which is not good.

Display info you should NOT necessarily ignore. If it tells you what it receives, that might be an indication, but the display might be set to a fixed bit depth in UHD Mode. My JVC does report RGB 12bits when I send 4K23 and RGB 8bits when I send 4K60p.

I have a HD Fury Vertex that tells me exactly what comes out of the HTPC before it goes into the display, so I know for a fact that I get RGB 12bits 4:4:4 in 4K23 and RGB 8bits 4:4:4 in 4K60p, which confirms the display info.

Whether the presence of the Vertex in the chain helps me get these results or not, I have no idea. I don't think it does, but it might because it overrides the display EDID and reports full capability. I don't have the time to mess up with my setup at the moment and test whether all works as well if I take it out.

I can confirm that all works as reported above with 390.24. No improvements that I can see, nothing broken either:

3D (FSE still needed), 12bits/8bits auto switch and custom refresh modes created with MadVR still work fine and survive a reboot, Asio4all compatibility and ability to switch bit depth in custom modes still broken.
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Last edited by Manni; 20th March 2018 at 23:43.
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Old 20th March 2018, 23:54   #49656  |  Link
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manni can you do a simple test and see if nvidia output 12 bit even with 8 bit selected as long as madVR send 10 bit (it was like this in the past)
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Old 21st March 2018, 00:12   #49657  |  Link
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manni can you do a simple test and see if nvidia output 12 bit even with 8 bit selected as long as madVR send 10 bit (it was like this in the past)
That cannot work at 4K60p. You can't send 12bits (or even 10bits) at 4K60p RGB 4:4:4, whether MadVR dithers to 8bits or 10bits. It exceeds the 18gb/s bandwidth of HDMI 2.0. It might work like this with 1080p, but that's not relevant with 4K60p. The only valid option at 4K60 RGB 4:4:4 is 8bits. This is why you should make sure (using profiles) that MadVR dithers to 8bits with 4K60p content if you dither to 10bits otherwise. Alternatively, you need to dither to 8bits always.
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Old 21st March 2018, 00:15   #49658  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Budtz View Post
I was hoping that varriable refreshrate would enable the screen to sync up to whatever cadence the pc outputs without handshaking. if is something strange like 24.2013p the screen just adopts to that without handshaking. tv just shows whatever.
So you mean fixed refresh rate but with free timing? That would be of little help for video, as the useful refresh rates are standard. What would be useful is 119,88 Hz, to be able to display 24p and 60p without having to switch modes (plus having a smoother UI).
Quote:
switches from 60p to 24p without handshaking every time or it having to be specifik cadence to not have stutters.
This is a different feature called 'Quick Media Switching', which would be more useful for us video geeks than VRR, as it allows seamless refresh rate switching, i.e. no handshake when changing modes. However there is no guarantee that all displays will implement it, or even that those that implement it will correctly display all refresh rates without judder just like now.
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Old 21st March 2018, 00:54   #49659  |  Link
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Jeesh, what is it with this site and image uploads? It's not a video, it's a simple tiny image. Anxious for you guys to look it over. I see other folks post and their image shows immediately? Please, someone explain what I've done wrong.

In manage attachments I uploaded a 900k .jpg direct from my PC to here and posted. It said pending approval.
I removed attachment and checked post to see that it was gone.
Uploaded .jpg to imgur.com, then copied link to here. It said pending again. Noticed it said 200k max.
I removed pending image again.
I cropped image down to nothing (162KB), uploaded from my PC to here and posted. Pending this one too.
Removed and checked post to see it was gone.
Uploaded 162KB to imgur.com, copied url, and posted. Says pending again.
Help?
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Old 21st March 2018, 01:14   #49660  |  Link
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That cannot work at 4K60p. You can't send 12bits (or even 10bits) at 4K60p RGB 4:4:4, whether MadVR dithers to 8bits or 10bits. It exceeds the 18gb/s bandwidth of HDMI 2.0. It might work like this with 1080p, but that's not relevant with 4K60p. The only valid option at 4K60 RGB 4:4:4 is 8bits. This is why you should make sure (using profiles) that MadVR dithers to 8bits with 4K60p content if you dither to 10bits otherwise. Alternatively, you need to dither to 8bits always.
not my question and trust me i know this stuff...
can you try this at a resolution with 10 bit or more support?

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uploads on this forum need admin approval just use a link.
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direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

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