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Old 11th September 2019, 15:31   #57341  |  Link
SirMaster
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madVR Envy info for those interested:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/37-vi...l#post58541994
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Old 11th September 2019, 16:39   #57342  |  Link
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Interesting thoughts... I'll explain why I want thoughts on this setup once I get more thoughts from you guys... Basically I want to see if my pre-conceptions match all of yours and solve a riddle that has been bugging me for weeks now QB
Out of curiosity I've done a real test on my desktop which has the same GPU overclocked to 1150 MHz (what pretty much any Pitcairn can do) and an i5-4690K. I'm afraid I was a little optimistic: when outputting 1080 with 'scale chroma separately', I can play a UHD Blu-ray test clip with SSIM 2D downscale but only if I measure the HDR beforehand, and even then the render queue sometimes drop to low numbers and I'm not sure it wouldn't drop frames at some point, although the GPU strangely never goes above 65% load. Using Bicubic 150 is much safer. With the live HDR algo however it's too much and the GPU cannot cope. (Edit: I forgot to point out that I'm using HDR highlight recovery, which uses a lot of rendering power)
Also the decoding is quite taxing on my quad-core Haswell. The problem would be very high bitrate scenes, but this can be compensated with a longer decoding queue.

You can test with this if you want: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-x...XO5SzAwL3WvfSS
It's a looping clip from the menu of The Great Wall, 61 Mbps average video bitrate.
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Last edited by el Filou; 11th September 2019 at 16:52.
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Old 11th September 2019, 16:52   #57343  |  Link
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Hi everyone, I want to ask for a 60Hz monitor which can run on 42-74Hz refresh rate, which of the following setting is the best when playing a 23.976fps video?

1. 60Hz, smooth motion on
2. 74Hz, smooth motion on
3. 47Hz (47.952Hz)
4. 71HZ (71.928Hz)

Thank you.
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Old 11th September 2019, 17:20   #57344  |  Link
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Originally Posted by skydreamer888 View Post
Hi everyone, I want to ask for a 60Hz monitor which can run on 42-74Hz refresh rate, which of the following setting is the best when playing a 23.976fps video?

1. 60Hz, smooth motion on
2. 74Hz, smooth motion on
3. 47Hz (47.952Hz)
4. 71HZ (71.928Hz)

Thank you.
I'm for 3. 47Hz (47.952Hz)
4. 71HZ (71.928Hz)
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Old 11th September 2019, 18:50   #57345  |  Link
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which of the following setting is the best when playing a 23.976fps video
If you can achieve 47.952 Hz or 71.928 Hz very accurately by using custom resolutions, there´s no need for smoothmotion. There shouldn´t be a greater difference between these two.
So use 3. or 4. Maybe try both and use the one with better accuracy for less frame drops/repeats.
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Old 11th September 2019, 20:14   #57346  |  Link
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Originally Posted by mclingo2 View Post
whats the noise like on the 3rd party cards, my RX580 is quite loud when pushed.
i have a red devil which is considered to be one of the best. i still consider it loud.
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Old 11th September 2019, 22:11   #57347  |  Link
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Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
madVR Envy info for those interested:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/37-vi...l#post58541994
I'm honestly baffled at the idea that they intend to launch without HDMI 2.1.
Edit: didn't see the prices. LOL? I mean I wish madshi ALL the success possible on this Earth but Envy is priced completely beyond anything even remotely plausible for me. I am in no way complaining about the price.

It's good that madVR will stay in active development. And everything points to madVR making use of the ray tracing cores (or tensor cores) in the RTX line of cards (I don't see where else those "100 TFLOPS for AI / Neural Network" could be coming from).

Last edited by ashlar42; 11th September 2019 at 22:35.
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Old 11th September 2019, 22:41   #57348  |  Link
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I can't afford an Envy at the moment, but, I am VERY curious to see what a commercial version of madvr looks like. Plus will we get the algorithms he's currently working on for the Envy? I think it would be plausible for madvr on the HTPC being used as the "test bed" for new features being brought to the Envy. THAT would be beneficial all around.
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Old 11th September 2019, 22:46   #57349  |  Link
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I can't afford an Envy at the moment, but, I am VERY curious to see what a commercial version of madvr looks like. Plus will we get the algorithms he's currently working on for the Envy? I think it would be plausible for madvr on the HTPC being used as the "test bed" for new features being brought to the Envy. THAT would be beneficial all around.
Yes, this is exactly how I'm feeling. Curious about the commercial version, curious about whether features will filter down from Envy to HTPCs or the opposite or both.
One thing is clear: there's no way I'll consider an AMD card for madVR use in the future. With Envy being Nvidia based, I think we now can make sense of madshi telling people to keep in mind RTX cards for a future-proof approach.
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Old 11th September 2019, 23:08   #57350  |  Link
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but a 2080 ti can't do 100 TFLOP at 32 bit but only at 16 bit. just saying and no HDMI 2.1.

the price was to be expected and he clarifies i don't have to "care" about this product which is transparent and fair.

madshi should really clarify if madVR will use tensor cores in the future or not that's a yes for me "- Pro Cinema: about ~10 TFLOPS, plus ~100 TFLOPS for AI / Neural Network" but not a 100 % yes from him.
which is something we should know IMHO.
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Old 12th September 2019, 00:12   #57351  |  Link
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One thing is clear from the latest HDR test build release notes and bug that appeared....the Envy IS running madvr...at least, a code path within it. Because the release notes mention this and the bug he had to fix was because of some Envy code. But, remember that what they're using in Envy is not off the shelf nVidia cards. Who knows what else is under the covers of that thing. Nonetheless, I am quite happy I bought an RTX card. Even if the features don't 1:1 match the Envy in terms of new algorithms, I've got about 7.9 TFLOPS to play with on my card, so, right in the middle of the base and the pro. I'm very excited for the future of madvr!
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Old 12th September 2019, 00:18   #57352  |  Link
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Okay this is the follow up to my scenario posted above that I was hoping to get some un-influenced opinions on before going into detail about the puzzle I can't figure out.

From above:
  • CPU: FX-8350
  • RAM: 8GB DDR3 1866 CL 7
  • GPU: R9 270X 2GB
  • No hardware decoding
  • HDMI 1.3 output
  • In your expert opinions, Is it possible to play 4K HDR Bluray remux using madVR?

Now the puzzle I can't figure out is, I can! When I got my 55" C9 OLED I tried an HDR UHD Bluray Remux and it was a messy slideshow. So I just used the TV to play back these files. There was no way my GPU could do what I want, right? However, by accident I loaded up a 4k HDR "calibration" file and to my astonishment it played perfectly! WTF?!?!?

So I did a deeper dive into some madVR settings. Turns out when the bitrate spikes to about 100Mbps queues would collapse and the slideshow would start... But increasing queues with only 2GB VRAM won't work, right? But it does! And the bigger the Present queue the better! It makes no sense. Since Present queues >4 make 1080p playback problematic. I just don't understand how these big queues are possible with 4k. Here is a screenshot of madVR OSD:



This is all with NO "trade quality" boxes checked AND tone mapping enabled (although not crazy):



The real kicker is my GPU is running out of VRAM, constantly dipping into system RAM and then clearing and repeating the cycle over and over:











So how is this possible? Could the very low latency of my RAM help? And why do bigger Present queues work with 4k but not work well with 1080p upscaled to 4k. And big CPU and GPU queues are even worse for HD content. I needed to create profiles for the queue sizes! That doesn't make sense. I wish we could create profiles for the Present queue, but I found a middle ground with 8... still okay for the 4k and the problems with 1080p are acceptable.

Anyway, sorry for the long post... What are your thoughts?

QB
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Old 12th September 2019, 00:21   #57353  |  Link
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they are using the same TU102-300X-K1-A1 like every other 2080 ti there is nothing different from it and they will most likely not even get the chip from nvidia. nvidia doesn't deliver so low volumes.
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Old 12th September 2019, 00:55   #57354  |  Link
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I haven't seen that specified anywhere. Are you assuming that's the case or do you know this as a fact? I'm not questioning the validity as it seems logical but just want to know if that's been officially posted somewhere.
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Old 12th September 2019, 01:22   #57355  |  Link
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but a 2080 ti can't do 100 TFLOP at 32 bit but only at 16 bit. just saying and no HDMI 2.1.

the price was to be expected and he clarifies i don't have to "care" about this product which is transparent and fair.

madshi should really clarify if madVR will use tensor cores in the future or not that's a yes for me "- Pro Cinema: about ~10 TFLOPS, plus ~100 TFLOPS for AI / Neural Network" but not a 100 % yes from him.
which is something we should know IMHO.
I'm sure he cares about participating in his own business. Not wanting to kill off this project or limit his ability as a developer to pursue his own interests are likely what he is referring to.

The price sounds strange when things started out open-source, but I think the base model is still priced below his competition in the Lumagen Radiance Pro. I doubt the Lumagen folks are bilking everyone with its pricing.
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Old 12th September 2019, 01:26   #57356  |  Link
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He made it very clear that he will retain control over madvr development. Nothing on that will happen without his input. And he said there will continue to be a free version going forward, as well. So people can relax on that issue. I'm curious to see what the commercial version brings in terms of functionality. I suspect some of his new algorithms that he's developing for the Envy will probably show up there, but, this is only a guess. Very exciting times for us!
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Old 12th September 2019, 01:55   #57357  |  Link
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I haven't seen that specified anywhere. Are you assuming that's the case or do you know this as a fact? I'm not questioning the validity as it seems logical but just want to know if that's been officially posted somewhere.
Quote:
When I researched FPGAs, I didn't find any (that are even remotely near to what we can pay) which have the GFLOPS that I need.
what do you think an custom nvidia card cost.
is it even possible without million to mass produce a new die at processes used by nvidia.

Quote:
I'm sure he cares about participating in his own business. Not wanting to kill off this project or limit his ability as a developer to pursue his own interests are likely what he is referring to.
he clearifies that if you don't want to use an external device for playback there is no need to switch to an envy multiply times now

Quote:
The price sounds strange when things started out open-source, but I think the base model is still priced below his competition in the Lumagen Radiance Pro. I doubt the Lumagen folks are bilking everyone with its pricing.
did you ever read the specs of an lumagen that thing is... i have no words for it.

this is a very low volume device specifically the first ones aimed at a group that pays high dollar for there projector and it is far more capable then a lumagen and priced similar. the hardware alone will cost 1.5-3.0 k and that not what they are selling they are selling the algorithms the work that has been input into writing these algorithms. how else should they be able to even make money with such a product.

i'm pretty sure "all" algorithm will show on madVR at one time as long as he develops them.

when was madVR ever open source?
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Old 12th September 2019, 02:02   #57358  |  Link
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So it's essentially a 2080 in the pro. That seems reasonable and means that in theory the HTPC's that have the RTX cards could run similar algorithms that the Envy can drive. That's quite exciting. I did ask about the automatic algorithm "tuning" that the Envy can do (if you select multiple algorithms that require a lot of processing power it can auto tune them to give you the best picture and performance) showing up in madvr and he said that it'd be too difficult given all the variations in hardware on an HTPC. I jokingly (sort of) said he could limit it to RTX cards. LMAO That would be a sweet feature, even if it's in the "pro" commercial version of madvr.
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Old 12th September 2019, 04:40   #57359  |  Link
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did you ever read the specs of an lumagen that thing is... i have no words for it.

this is a very low volume device specifically the first ones aimed at a group that pays high dollar for there projector and it is far more capable then a lumagen and priced similar. the hardware alone will cost 1.5-3.0 k and that not what they are selling they are selling the algorithms the work that has been input into writing these algorithms. how else should they be able to even make money with such a product.

i'm pretty sure "all" algorithm will show on madVR at one time as long as he develops them.

when was madVR ever open source?
The margins are probably a lot smaller than you think and you are forgetting about the countless other expenses involved in running a business. A low volume product often requires a higher price just to cover these costs, let alone make a modest profit.

I meant madVR was free, not open-source.
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Old 12th September 2019, 11:23   #57360  |  Link
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I'm very excited for the future of madvr!
Not to mention that (I assume and don't actually know this) madvr was "only" madshi's hobby beside of his full time/contracting jobs in the last 10 years. Now this has been changed: Envy and madvr will be his full time job!
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