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Old 26th November 2018, 23:48   #53741  |  Link
ryrynz
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What about changing the range a bit at the black end? Does that affect it much?
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Old 27th November 2018, 00:10   #53742  |  Link
iSeries
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What about changing the range a bit at the black end? Does that affect it much?
Custom levels? A tiny bit...but to truly mitigate it as effectively as 5bit dithering I have to raise it too much. Also raising brightness on the TV to around 56 from 50 mitigates it, but 1 click over 51 and black level is raised.

A dithering method that would dither at 5bit or so at the black end and ramp up to output bit depth would be perfect!
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Old 27th November 2018, 08:43   #53743  |  Link
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I made a video about this, otherwise it's hard to imagine what this can look like if you don't have an 2018 LG Oled. There is a ton of noise in the video because of the high ISO recording though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl_t3UQ3gAk

And yes dithering to 5-bits completely gets rid of those flashing artifacts you see in the video. Outputting BT.2020 does too in some cases.

What's funny is that most people completely negate this problem and refuse to even run the test video I made. Though the few that did got very similar results.
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Old 27th November 2018, 10:29   #53744  |  Link
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I made a video about this, otherwise it's hard to imagine what this can look like if you don't have an 2018 LG Oled. There is a ton of noise in the video because of the high ISO recording though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl_t3UQ3gAk

And yes dithering to 5-bits completely gets rid of those flashing artifacts you see in the video. Outputting BT.2020 does too in some cases.

What's funny is that most people completely negate this problem and refuse to even run the test video I made. Though the few that did got very similar results.
Did you post that over at avsforum?
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Old 27th November 2018, 11:36   #53745  |  Link
mclingo
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Trust me, it's different with 2018 OLEDs. For some reason they are pumping brightness through near black and causing near black artifacts to flash brightly. Pause the video and the flashing stops, press play again and the crazy flashing starts again. This does seem to be a bug because sending the same content as bt.2020 instead of bt.709 and this flashing does not occur. That isn't a viable solution but luckily dithering to 5bit also solves the issue (no flashing). This also was not an issue with the two C7s I had. Or any other TV i've had lol.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post57140188
Sounds like a panel fault to me, there were a number of people who had really bad macro blocking on the 2015 panels who got replacement panels which solved it, have you opened at post of this issue on any forum or contacted LG?

also, post a clip of something that partiularly bad so we can have a look, suggest also moving this dicsussion to the general forum as its not a MADVR issue.
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Old 27th November 2018, 12:43   #53746  |  Link
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl_t3UQ3gAk ... Though the few that did got very similar results.
It's just ridiculous for a >3000 TV. But if bt.2020 isn't affected then it's not a hardware issue. That means you have to you bt.2020 all the time even for HD/SD if it's possible.
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Old 27th November 2018, 13:17   #53747  |  Link
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Did you post that over at avsforum?
Yes, you must have missed it.

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Sounds like a panel fault to me, there were a number of people who had really bad macro blocking on the 2015 panels who got replacement panels which solved it, have you opened at post of this issue on any forum or contacted LG?

also, post a clip of something that partiularly bad so we can have a look, suggest also moving this dicsussion to the general forum as its not a MADVR issue.
Here is the clip of the handmaids tale scene and another from pyewacket (blu-ray) which also causes a lot of artifacting.
Both look clean on my monitor and plasma.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=15H...XrjiAYo9sjxRao

I've already had a panel replacement and the tech who did that knew about this problem and he also knew that a panel wouln't fix this. Though he still replaced my panel but had no explanation for this issue.
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Old 27th November 2018, 13:21   #53748  |  Link
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Do remember that we're talking about madVR here, not generic OLED issues.
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Old 27th November 2018, 20:26   #53749  |  Link
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But.. But madVR can surely help!
Every time we go off topic delays the next stable by a week. Plz pray for madshi's free time.
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Old 28th November 2018, 00:18   #53750  |  Link
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MadVR and color banding

Hi guys,
in those days I've compared my stand alone UHD player (Oppo UDP 203) and my htpc with MadVr.

The quest is what is the best for viewing UHD HDR10 Films.

My HTPC is windows 10 based (64bit), GTX970 (latest drivers), last stable madvr, MPC-HC, last LAV filters.

My display is a Sony VPL-VW520ES 4K projector.

My reference UHD material are the first mins of REVENANT and some other particular scenes taken from VALERIAN.

Obviously MadVR is better from any point of view (detail, colors, noise, ecc.) less one ... COLOR BANDINGS!
Oppo is better only under this point of view.

Oppo send a HDR signal 422@12bit to my projector.

Initially my GPU was setted in RGB@8bit.

That's why I read (a long time ago) that MadVR natively works in RGB domain.
Into MadVr I've set display=8bit
Conversion to HDR > SDR with bt.2084.
Debanding filter to Max
dithering = ordered

The image is stunning but color banding is unfortunately present.

After that I've decided to put my GPU in 422@10bit output.
Setted MadVr with display=10bit
Conversion to HDR > SDR with bt.2084.
Debanding filter to Max
dithering = ordered

Now MadVr reports me "window exlusive mode" =10bit

In this mode the color banding effect is a little bit lower ... but Oppo is still better under this point of view.

Can someone tell me if I'm missing something?
Someone can help me to put my htpc to perform bandings equal to my oppo player?

Thank you so much
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Old 28th November 2018, 01:42   #53751  |  Link
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The HDR -> SDR conversion could possibly introduce some banding from heavy compression. Your projector might also have issues with RGB inputs compared to YCbCr. The image is being sent from madVR with dithering to eliminate rounding errors that would cause banding, so the problem would likely start at the projector. Does the projector have any options for video levels or color space?

Last edited by Warner306; 28th November 2018 at 01:46.
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Old 28th November 2018, 02:58   #53752  |  Link
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I suspect the HDR -> SDR if you need to target low nits. I think debanding runs before HDR -> SDR?

The projector would process input from the Oppo similar to madVR, wouldn't it?
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Old 28th November 2018, 04:49   #53753  |  Link
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RGB should produce the best result and that might involve extra conversions at the projector, which might create some errors. But I would also expect the two inputs would look more or less the same. Tone mapping does sound like the more likely cause. No pixels are removed, but the luminance steps can be altered enough to cause uneven gradients.

Some things to try:
  • Set the HDMI video range to Full or whatever Sony projectors call this setting to send RGB Full;
  • Disable highlight recovery strength in madVR to reduce the amount of image processing;
  • Find a scene with some banding and try considerably higher or lower target peak nits to see if the banding changes at all.
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Old 28th November 2018, 11:46   #53754  |  Link
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I have been working away for a bit, and have lost track of what is happening with madVR in the AVS forum, it just seems to be confusing graphs and the likes for a long time.

It looks like madshi has dropped out of the conversation as such, is this getting there, as I said all rather confusing on what is happening apart from everyone measuring their movies for NIT settings and fancy apps to display that info ?
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Old 28th November 2018, 13:39   #53755  |  Link
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----EDIT
For RTX users with stuttering issues, please read, and try Fullscreen Exclusive mode! It solved my issue that I describe below:
----EDIT
Hi guys,

I'm fairly new on here. I've been using MadVR in conjunction with my GTX 1070 from EVGA for some years now and I've been very happy, the video clock on the card/display has been VERY close to 23.976, like.. We're talking .979 instead of .976..

My issue now.. Is that I got an RTX 2080, same TV, same PC, same AVR, same MadVR config.. And I'm getting stuttering every 2-4th second, 4K, 1080, 720.. You name it.

The only difference I can see is that my clock on the new card is up to 23.981.. I have an estimated frame repeat expectancy of 4.4 minutes.. Seems fairly accurate too.. No dropped frames, a render time of 20-31ms on 23 content.. Like.. Everything looks okay.

So this insane stuttering that was introduced with the new card.. Can it be fixed? Is there any way I can get closer to the 23.976? And before that.. Does this little difference actually matter?

I have read about CRU and thinking to try it out to try and get my clock closer, I just want to be sure that it's actually worth it at this point. I'm also getting a new TV really soon and I'd be so sad if I can't actually fix this issue since content is pretty much unwatchable right now cause of the insane amount of juddering introduced from the new card.

For the record, I got a 750W PSU along with the RTX card to make sure that I was supplying enough power, up from a 600W, I don't know if this has anything to say in terms of the clock on the display/card.

I am so sorry if I'm derailing but this is the only thread I really know and I know it holds so much good info on everything display, color, MadVR and overall HTPC related so I'm trying my luck.

Thanks so much.

/CuraeL

Last edited by curael; 28th November 2018 at 16:13.
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Old 28th November 2018, 13:44   #53756  |  Link
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@curael

There have been a few posts about stuttering with the new design cards, so you could maybe see if you could find them.

I think there were not many answers, I think the consensus was it was quite immature drivers for the card as it is, and may improve over time, I guess madshi will look at it in time, but the focus is on HDR at the moment.

I also think due to the fact you are using new card and new drivers you may struggle to get a frame rate match as good as your previous card, and that is why many of us are on older drivers for just the older cards, something you will not be able to do I guess as there will new issues for you due to this.

Heres one similair
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...45#post1857345

Last edited by madjock; 28th November 2018 at 14:01.
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Old 28th November 2018, 14:01   #53757  |  Link
curael
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@curael

I also think due to the fact you are using new card and new drivers you may struggle to get a frame rate match as good as your previous card, and that is why many of us are on older drivers for just the older cards, something you will not be able to do I guess as there will new issues for you due to this.
Yeah, I found a few comments on here that sounded like they were about my issue but I wasn't sure if I actually found everything.

I'm wondering the same as you, it could be early drivers.. But it could also just be that the RTX cards are a bit too aggressive when it comes to lower video clocks. Who knows..

Would "Smooth motion" fix anything if I set the display to only run 60Hz? I tried to look up what Smooth Motion actually did and found out it's an "image blending" technology, I think someone called it over at JRiver (which was what my Google-fu led me to.) How ever, I'm not sure it will do anything as it seems like Smooth Motion looks like it's designed for very specific frame rates and not a huge fix for juddering.

Anyway, I appreciate your answer and I think it confirms my belief that for now, I'm boned.

Thanks again,
/CuraeL
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Old 28th November 2018, 14:06   #53758  |  Link
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can you make a screen of the OSD after this has happend.
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Old 28th November 2018, 14:08   #53759  |  Link
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I have a 2080 ti and get stuttering as well. Using fullscreen exclusive fixed it for me.
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Old 28th November 2018, 14:16   #53760  |  Link
curael
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I have a 2080 ti and get stuttering as well. Using fullscreen exclusive fixed it for me.
Oh..! I've had some issues with FSE in the past but that's just related to my setup I guess.. I don't recall exactly - but I stopped using it due to crashes but that's long ago. I'll certainly give that a try!

I appreciate that very much! Thanks!

/CuraeL
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