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Old 14th January 2016, 10:48   #35321  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCRaistlin View Post
madVR doesn't activate the correct interlacing mode (film) for PAL sample and switches to 50 Hz with default deinterlacing settings (+ LAV's YADIF disabled + ReClock's PAL speed down enabled).
Currently madVR doesn't have a good auto-detection for film mode vs video mode. So unless you force film mode, madVR always uses DXVA deinterlacing in double frame rate. That is currently by design.

Quote:
Originally Posted by apgood View Post
I'm using the latest version of the AMD Crimson drivers and while my projector switches in 3D mode it does seem to have any depth to it (i.e. just looks like 2D).

This is on Windows 10 pro and player is jriver MC.

Note: I haven't tried MadVR 90.2 yet though.
Please try v0.90.2. If that doesn't help, please browse through the AMD control panel to see if there's any setting there which you might have changed which might make a difference. Try to set everything to "application controlled" or default settings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmone View Post
Ok - I've had it working twice but not consistently. In all cases I'm getting NV12, 8bit, 4:2:0 (3D) (so LAV is decoding), but most of the time I ether get:
- D3D9 & Side By Side, or
- MC Crashes

I'll test more tomorrow but no obvious pattern, as after one play it stopped working the second time.
Interesting. NVidia, right?

Does any AMD or Intel user have 3D crashes? I think it's limited to NVidia? On my PC it doesn't occur, though (as usual ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by omarank View Post
Yes, it fixes the issue as tested with the 3D MKV sample I have, but there are two things to consider here:
1. In India, Blu Rays are mastered at 24 fps and not 23.976 fps. I guess it happens the same in most other PAL countries too. So ideally you should force 23p/ 24p for 3D playback depending upon the source fps, if you arenít already doing that.
2. When you implement processing of SBS and TBB content, for the broadcasted SBS/ TBB you may want to output 50p/ 60p frame packed 3D. However, such content is rare and 3D is anyway not so popular.
Yes, I'm aware of 23p vs 24p. But for now I just wanted to stick to the most common standard and make that stable first, before looking at corner cases.

My projector doesn't support frame packed 3D at 50p/60p, AFAIK. I'm not sure if many other display do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleksoid1978 View Post
i check latest version, don't work 3D, only side-by-side picture.
I try set TV as primary device, set only only TV in system - don't help.
Try reset settings - don't help.
If you do that (primary device), do you then get a 3D checkbox in your OS display resolution control panel (see screenshots for Windows 8.1 and 10 earlier in this thread)? This is the key thing you need to achieve. If you don't get that checkbox, then Direct3D11 will most probably not allow me to switch to 3D.

Do you use some sort of EDID override? It seems to me that your OS doesn't recognize that your display can do 3D. We need to find out why. Maybe if you don't have an EDID override now, it might be worth trying to do one which announces 3D support, so the OS and GPU actually understand that your display can do 3D?

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Originally Posted by Sunset1982 View Post
Is 3d supported in the profile rules?
Not yet, but probably next weekend.
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Old 14th January 2016, 11:19   #35322  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
If you do that (primary device), do you then get a 3D checkbox in your OS display resolution control panel (see screenshots for Windows 8.1 and 10 earlier in this thread)? This is the key thing you need to achieve. If you don't get that checkbox, then Direct3D11 will most probably not allow me to switch to 3D.

Do you use some sort of EDID override? It seems to me that your OS doesn't recognize that your display can do 3D. We need to find out why. Maybe if you don't have an EDID override now, it might be worth trying to do one which announces 3D support, so the OS and GPU actually understand that your display can do 3D?
I don't have 3D options in OS (Win 10 Ent x64) - but PowerDVD/TMT playback in 3D perfect.
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Old 14th January 2016, 11:19   #35323  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi
Oh well, then I don't know why it's not working for you. It seems to be a problem with the GPU drivers (?). You could try reinstalling those, or try a different version.
tried 3-4 different versions. no difference. any other idea?



Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi
Not yet, but probably next weekend.
that would be great! thx.



Quote:
Ok - I've had it working twice but not consistently. In all cases I'm getting NV12, 8bit, 4:2:0 (3D) (so LAV is decoding), but most of the time I ether get:
- D3D9 & Side By Side, or
- MC Crashes

I'll test more tomorrow but no obvious pattern, as after one play it stopped working the second time.
same problems here. GTX 970 (361.60), Win 10, all latest software and 64bit.
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Old 14th January 2016, 11:49   #35324  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
Thanks. This is what I experienced when LAV wasn't installed properly.

Please install the latest MadVR and lastest LAV (not sure if jRiver uses its own versions though, you might want to use MPC-BE to be able to test the independent versions of LAV and MadVR) and report what MadVR displays in the OSD, just to be sure everything is working as it should. It should report 3D both for content and rendering, which is what it does on my system.

Also does your display switch to 1080p24 (FP)? Does it work in 3D with PowerDVD or similar? You can install a demo of PowerDVD if you don't own it, just to make sure your system and display are able to play 3D properly.
I did replace the versions in jriver with latest nightlies of LAV (dated 13 Jan) and MadVR (90.1 at the time) and my projector was reporting that was receiving a 3D frame packed video stream it just doesn't look 3D. Also, when I disabled 3D in MadVR it was displaying a SBS video stream so I assume it was working.

I have a PowerDVD license and uses to use it for 3D viewing but don't really like it, so I swapped to a Mede8er for 3D movies which handles 3D really well, but if I can get a LAV and MadVR combo to work then I'll probably switch to that because the zoom functionality is so seamless in changing aspect ratios on my scope screen.

Good idea. I'll try to get some time tomorrow night to install mpc-be as a control just to make sure it isn't can issue with jriver mc and I how I've installed LAV.
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Old 14th January 2016, 12:02   #35325  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Aleksoid1978 View Post
I don't have 3D options in OS (Win 10 Ent x64) - but PowerDVD/TMT playback in 3D perfect.
As I mentioned earlier, PowerDVD/TMT probably use a special protected media playback path offered by Microsoft, which has the main purpose of protecting content from being ripped. See here:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/lib...s.85).aspx#pmp

Using that path requires MediaFoundation and uses a special video renderer which you cannot replace and probably runs through different GPU driver routines and uses different APIs. Because of all that what PowerDVD/TMT do is *VERY* different to what madVR does. If we wanted to achieve the same result as PowerDVD/TMT, then MPC-HC/BE would have to use a MediaFoundation 3D splitter and decoder, which would have to be specially code-signed to work inside of the protect media playback path, and MPC-HC/BE would then have to use the stock OS video renderer, because the video renderer can not be replaced in the protected media player path. So this would be the opposite of using madVR.

I can only work with the APIs that the OS offers to me, which is Direct3D11, which is the same that games etc can use. I'm pretty sure that games will not be able to output 3D on your PC, either.

You didn't answer my question, though: Are you currently using an EDID override of some sorts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunset1982 View Post
tried 3-4 different versions. no difference. any other idea?
You could try going through the GPU control panel to see if anything is set to non-default values. Try "application controlled" everywhere, and default values where "application controlled" is not available. Also disable GSync, FreeSync, or other related extra features.

Quote:
Originally Posted by apgood View Post
when I disabled 3D in MadVR it was displaying a SBS video stream so I assume it was working.
No no no. If you disable 3D in madVR, you're supposed to see simple 2D, not SBS!!!

Are you really playing an MVC MKV? Or are you playing an SBS encoded MKV? Those are two *totally* different things. The new 3D support is atm only for MVC MKVs, which are straight remuxes from 3D-BluRay to MKV by using MakeMKV. MKVs encoded as side-by-side are not supported atm.
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Old 14th January 2016, 12:12   #35326  |  Link
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I not using any EDID override.
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Old 14th January 2016, 12:14   #35327  |  Link
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About PowerDVD - it's not MediaFoundation. It's use a DirectShow mechanism.
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Old 14th January 2016, 12:18   #35328  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Currently madVR doesn't have a good auto-detection for film mode vs video mode. So unless you force film mode, madVR always uses DXVA deinterlacing in double frame rate. That is currently by design.
Do I understand it right then that the best practice currently is to have madVR's "forced film mode" set (as the most interlaced sources are telecined and, besides that, DXVA deinterlacing doesn't work properly in a number of cases) and to enable LAV's YADIF video mode deinterlacing when playing natively interlaced videos?
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Old 14th January 2016, 12:40   #35329  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Aleksoid1978 View Post
About PowerDVD - it's not MediaFoundation. It's use a DirectShow mechanism.
The Microsoft "protected media path" is based on MediaFoundation and I believe all official players like PowerDVD/TMT *must* use it to protect the content. Maybe PowerDVD uses DirectShow for unprotected sources, but I don't think they're allowed to do that for protected content. Or am I wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleksoid1978 View Post
I not using any EDID override.
Ok. Might make sense then to analyze your display's EDID to double check whether it announces 3D support or not. Can you please create a report with this tool:

http://www.entechtaiwan.com/util/moninfo.shtm

Please use the "real-time" information for your 3D display, and do "File -> Save Report".

Quote:
Originally Posted by GCRaistlin View Post
Do I understand it right then that the best practice currently is to have madVR's "forced film mode" set (as the most interlaced sources are telecined and, besides that, DXVA deinterlacing doesn't work properly in a number of cases) and to enable LAV's YADIF video mode deinterlacing when playing natively interlaced videos?
That depends on how many telecined and how many native video sources you're typically using. The "set-and-forget" option would be video/DXVA deinterlacing. If you're willing to manually switch based on the exact video source you're playing, then I'd switch between forced film mode and either DXVA or YADIF. Usually DXVA is better than YADIF, but sometimes YADIF might be better. Might depend on the video source, and also on the GPU. DXVA algorithms are totally different between different GPU manufacturers and sometimes even models or drivers.
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Old 14th January 2016, 13:02   #35330  |  Link
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Here moninfo - http://pastebin.com/F9gSN8TE
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Old 14th January 2016, 13:47   #35331  |  Link
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madshi - you say that use D3D11 for 3D output. As i understand you use side-by-side packing type ??

I read some about D3D11 stereo format here https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/lib...=vs.85%29.aspx and here i see info about row interleaved format.

Here https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/lib...=vs.85%29.aspx write about stereo 3D capabilities for D3D11. And here we have too some info about row interleaved capabilities.

Maybe you do some test utilites or log/debug in madVR - that we can see stereo 3D capabilities for D3D11 and supported 3D format ??

Maybe it's help
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Old 14th January 2016, 14:51   #35332  |  Link
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ok, I'll give it up for now. Can't get 3D running in with madvr/nvdia/win10.

I'll wait till end 2016 to get a new gen AMD card. Hopefully madvr's 3d support has fewer problems till then and I hope it will work with a new AMD card.

Maybe we should donate to get madshi a testrig with win10/nvidia card to investigate the problems further?
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Old 14th January 2016, 15:00   #35333  |  Link
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Regarding the 3D, I use stereoscopic player with "Side By Side" 4k 23p Playback, this makes the movie 1080P (1920x2160) and not half vertical res as most SBS converts.

The reason behind this is because MVC subtitles generally are buggy with MKV because there's no subtitle plane tracking in the MKV container, this will make the subtitles 2D, and if the movie is 16:9 the 3D effect will cut through the subtitles, often disrupting the viewing and making it annoying, if not dangerous for the eyes.

The only way to fix this "bug" on MVC MKVs was by putting the MVC video on the right and the 2D on left with subtitles on both sides and playing it side by side, if you don't have a 4k TV this would cut vertical res in half as said, but it's better than buggy playback.
Another thing is that you can't use .srt subtitles with MVC 3D effect as far as i'm aware, you need the original pgs in .m2ts container with the MVC VUI/SEI.

I wonder if you'll add this onto MadVR, as it would be a great feature if you can't fix the MKV 3D MVC subtitles.

Last edited by XTrojan; 14th January 2016 at 15:09.
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Old 14th January 2016, 16:24   #35334  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleksoid1978 View Post
Hmmmm... I'm not 100% sure how to interpret this report. It could indicate that your display supports all the mandatory 3D formats, plus some more resolutions as "top-and-bottom". But it could also be interpreted as saying that your display only supports "top-and-bottom", but not "frame packed".

Then according to your earlier report, you've setup your display to be "row interleaved". That's one more 3D format, which is different from side-by-side and frame packed. The moninfo report doesn't say anything about row interleaved, but it's possible that the moninfo report isn't complete, I don't know, because "row interleaved" is pretty exotic.

Right now my best guess is that your display doesn't support frame packed 3D. Or at least that the OS and/or your GPU drivers think that it doesn't. Are you sure that it does?

If you think that your display does support frame packed 3D, then one thing you could is to make an EDID override to make it clearer to the OS and your GPU that frame packed 3D is supported. This process is explained here:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/lib...(v=vs.85).aspx
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-hom...de-thread.html

One quick try would be to use the EDID of my projector with which 3D frame packed playback works just fine:

http://madshi.net/jvc.inf

If you decide to test this, I think you have to reboot after doing the EDID override. Afterwards, if you're using an NVidia GPU, please make your 3D TV primary monitor, then close and reopen the OS display resolution control panel. Do you then finally see the 3D checkbox appear there?

You could also try installing 3D Vision (not "3dtv play", which I think is something else), just to check if it makes a difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleksoid1978 View Post
you say that use D3D11 for 3D output. As i understand you use side-by-side packing type ??
I'm telling Direct3D11/DXGI to output 3D. Which exact format the output is sent as it not under my control. It should usually be "frame packed" and not side-by-side. My projector reports that it's receiving "frame packed" 3D, from all Intel, NVidia and AMD GPUs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleksoid1978 View Post
I read some about D3D11 stereo format here https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/lib...=vs.85%29.aspx and here i see info about row interleaved format.

Here https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/lib...=vs.85%29.aspx write about stereo 3D capabilities for D3D11. And here we have too some info about row interleaved capabilities.
These are D3D11 DXVA processing properties. They affect the way DXVA processes video. I don't think this has much to do with actual 3D output to the display, because DXVA just processes, it doesn't output/present.

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Originally Posted by Aleksoid1978 View Post
Maybe you do some test utilites or log/debug in madVR - that we can see stereo 3D capabilities for D3D11 and supported 3D format ??
I've searched up and down the internet. There is not even an official API that allows me to ask whether the current display is stereo, let alone tell me which type of stereo! E.g. normally you would use EnumDisplaySettings(Ex) to ask the current display mode. But it doesn't return any information about stereo.

The only thing I can do is ask DXGI to return a list of supported display modes. Some of them are marked with a "stereo" boolean value. That's all I get. And when presenting 3D, all I can do is tell Direct3D11/DXGI that I want to render & present stereo content. I can't configure whether I want frame packed, side-by-side, row interleaved or whatever. That's all outside of my control.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XTrojan View Post
Regarding the 3D, I use stereoscopic player with "Side By Side" 4k 23p Playback, this makes the movie 1080P (1920x2160) and not half vertical res as most SBS converts.
And your TV actually understands that? I think that's one possible 3D format, but not a lot of TVs can handle it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XTrojan View Post
The reason behind this is because MVC subtitles generally are buggy with MKV because there's no subtitle plane tracking in the MKV container, this will make the subtitles 2D, and if the movie is 16:9 the 3D effect will cut through the subtitles, often disrupting the viewing and making it annoying, if not dangerous for the eyes.

The only way to fix this "bug" on MVC MKVs was by putting the MVC video on the right and the 2D on left with subtitles on both sides and playing it side by side, if you don't have a 4k TV this would cut vertical res in half as said, but it's better than buggy playback.
Another thing is that you can't use .srt subtitles with MVC 3D effect as far as i'm aware, you need the original pgs in .m2ts container with the MVC VUI/SEI.

I wonder if you'll add this onto MadVR, as it would be a great feature if you can't fix the MKV 3D MVC subtitles.
I don't subtitles should be a problem for the way madVR renders 3D. madVR simply draws all subtitles on both left and right eye view at the same position. I think that should work just fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunset1982 View Post
Maybe we should donate to get madshi a testrig with win10/nvidia card to investigate the problems further?
I have an nvidia windows 8.1 machine and 3D works just fine here. I will probably upgrade to windows 10 sooner or later, but I doubt it will make a difference.
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Old 14th January 2016, 19:43   #35335  |  Link
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ok, I'll give it up for now. Can't get 3D running in with madvr/nvdia/win10.

I'll wait till end 2016 to get a new gen AMD card. Hopefully madvr's 3d support has fewer problems till then and I hope it will work with a new AMD card.

Maybe we should donate to get madshi a testrig with win10/nvidia card to investigate the problems further?
Before switching to AMD, better make sure there is at least one user able to display 3D with MadVR + LAV on AMD without the same bug as with stereoscopic player.

I have an AMD HD7870 (as per sig) and although LAV+MadVR do display 3D and report source and render in 3D, the depth isn't correct because there is a one frame delay on one of the eyes. This is a bug in the AMD driver, and isn't something Nev or Madshi can do anything about.

See https://community.amd.com/thread/168983 for more details.

I'm still waiting for someone to confirm this is working on AMD, and with which driver (I'm using Catalyst and haven't tried with Crimson).
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Old 14th January 2016, 20:03   #35336  |  Link
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I have some quick feedback re: chroma superres.

From what I can see, the superres for chroma is quite similar to the superres for image refinement right now. However, while the algorithm is great for luma, it's not good for chroma. In luma, superres enhances small details and edges by increasing contrast (darks become darker, lights become lighter at image transients), and the same happens to the chroma layers. However, in chroma, light vs dark is actually green vs red, or blue vs yellow, etc. When the edges have their contrast increased, you get increased wrong-color ringing.

In actual content, I haven't found any live action image that actually looks different with SR on or off. In cartoon, it can help in many situations, but also increase artifacts and ringing in others. It's also quite dependent on source quality. All in all, I don't find the performance hit to be really worth it.
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Old 14th January 2016, 21:13   #35337  |  Link
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I'll have to do some testing to see when this changed, but I just watched my first PAL DVD in some time, and noticed that srcHeight is using the cropped values again, instead of the source height, so it ended up using my NTSC profile instead.

As a temporary fix I've had to change my profile rules to use uncroppedsrcHeight. (I still think that should be how srcHeight always works...)
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Old 14th January 2016, 21:34   #35338  |  Link
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Quote:
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No no no. If you disable 3D in madVR, you're supposed to see simple 2D, not SBS!!!

Are you really playing an MVC MKV? Or are you playing an SBS encoded MKV? Those are two *totally* different things. The new 3D support is atm only for MVC MKVs, which are straight remuxes from 3D-BluRay to MKV by using MakeMKV. MKVs encoded as side-by-side are not supported atm.
It is definitely not SBS or OU as it will play as normal 2D of I play it in jriver, but was a few months ago that I converted it to a 3D mkv.

Sorry from memory I can't remember if I had all the 3D tick boxes unticked in MadVR or just the 3D switching for 3D movies one.

Hopefully I'll get more time tonight to play around with it and I'll convert a 3D mk with the latest version of makemkv.

I'll also note what is outputted depending on which tick boxes are ticked in the 3D section of MadVR.
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Old 14th January 2016, 23:10   #35339  |  Link
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The best OS for video playback currently seems to be Windows 8.1. It's better than Windows 7 because it has a much better desktop composition.
Fair enough, but does it matter if we don't like Aero and have it disabled in W7? It's not all that clear whether DWM is just the fancy name for that Aero thing that makes desktop windows transparent
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Old 14th January 2016, 23:26   #35340  |  Link
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Hello ... I just bought a Panasonic TX-55CX700. I have a problem with obtaining 1080p/60Hz 4:4:4. AMD is set to Full RGB. madVR to 0-255. Panasonic is set to "HDMI RGB RANGE" Full. But the only thing I see is 4:2:2. Any suggestions on what I'm doing wrong. I had no problem with my Samsung TV.
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