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Old 15th July 2019, 13:17   #56841  |  Link
chros
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Unless I missed something they use the same drivers.
8 months ago when I put together my HTPC I looked around whether I can use Win 8 with ryzen CPUs and b450 motherboards: there was only 1 (!) guy that mentioned that he managed to force somehow the chipset driver to install it on Win8. So I decided to go on the Win10 route.
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Old 15th July 2019, 15:13   #56842  |  Link
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What do you need Windows 10 for?
You can work with Windows 95 for many today´s tasks or you can use Linux or you can use MacOS. Windows 10 is the current OS on Win platforms. Maybe the last with its update structure. It´s a matter of time you´ll have to use Windows 10, support for Windows 7 ends soon. And Windows 8 never really was a wide spread OS.
My mistake (in my opinion) was not to use Windows 10 but not to wait for enough feedback about the current update 1903. But - I never really had bigger problems with Windows XP, not with Windows 7 and not with Windows 10 including 1809 regarding HTPC usage. So I personally saw no risk to update.
I still can enjoy movies. 5 frame repeats during one movie is not amusing out of a perfectionist´s view, but on the other side we´re talking about 5 frame repeats, this is not the end of the world

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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
I did say HTPC OS in my post. I didn't say all around general purpose OS that you also use for media playback.
We´re talking about Windows consumer systems. All of these are NOT real-time operating systems, so all of them can be considered a compromise and all of them are more or less suited the same way for HTPC usage.
You have rendering settings in madVR so you can make some adjustments depending on OS, GPU and other hardware and software factors. Up till now I always managed 'perfect' video playback. And now the first time I can´t really work around it. One case in so many years. I won´t complain
Windows 10 is a kind of update to Windows 8 and Windows 10 itself is further updated.
I never had big problems with Win 10 so I never will go the step back to Windows 8 (I never used this OS).
Fell free to consider Win 8 a 'HTPC OS' (ridiculous) and Win 10 an 'all purpose OS' (ridiculous as well).

My intention was to warn from some Win 10 1903 problems - not to discuss what OS to use.
And like very very often mentioned in this thread - don´t use arguments like 'you must', 'you have to', 'this is right', 'this is wrong' and things like that. Like upscaling algorithms or HDR settings. We´re talking about personal preferences, not about the 'right' settings. If everything is 100% clear and determined, madVR wouldn´t even have a settings dialogue.
I prefer Win 10 and I´ll have to work with the given possibilities. If the problems are not gone with further updates or latest with 1909, I´ll have to make a fresh install of Win 10 and update to 1809. Again not the end of the world, only some work for a couple of hours.
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Old 15th July 2019, 15:26   #56843  |  Link
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I prefer Win 10 and I´ll have to work with the given possibilities. If the problems are not gone with further updates or latest with 1909, I´ll have to make a fresh install of Win 10 and update to 1809. Again not the end of the world, only some work for a couple of hours.
Although that's true, but exactly that's why I've chosen LTSB/LTSC: I don't have time/energy/etc. to try to figure out and fix all the issues that can happen after a big upgrade (and sometimes only with security fixes as well), and there were reports before as well. I just want to use the PC that I have set up once, not constantly hacking
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Old 15th July 2019, 16:03   #56844  |  Link
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Fell free to consider Win 8 a 'HTPC OS' (ridiculous) and Win 10 an 'all purpose OS' (ridiculous as well).
Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit is it? I didn't say Windows 8.1 was a HTPC OS in the sense that you're trying to imply. I asked about using it vs Windows 10 as the OS on a PC that's only used as a HTPC with madVR. As such how it handles general purpose tasks is irrelevant.

You've posted a lot and still haven't provided any actual video playback features that are missing with Windows 8.1 from madVR's capabilities that need Windows 10. So, there aren't any?

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Old 15th July 2019, 16:45   #56845  |  Link
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If a movie's HDR doesn't seem to peak above 150nit, Then setting the TV + Madvr to 150 nit, and using a 150nit 3Dlut would be better right ? Because then you have the slightly extended range of blacks for better contrast ?

This is on a VA-tv w/ 6500:1 contrast ratio. Am I correct in assuming this is how it'd work ?

As in the higher you set the TV, the brighter the black lvl, and if the peak range is not part of the movie, it just makes everything more grey/less black than is possible ?
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Old 15th July 2019, 18:20   #56846  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
You've posted a lot and still haven't provided any actual video playback features that are missing with Windows 8.1 from madVR's capabilities that need Windows 10. So, there aren't any?
madshi once recommended Win 8.1 over Win 10 for madVR, but IIRC that was over a year ago. That's a couple of major updates ago, so I don't know if he feels the same way now.

I reluctantly moved on from 8.1 a couple of years ago, and 10 has given me no problems. I feel much more secure using the latest version of Windows because important security changes have been made. If I used 8.1 only on a dedicated HTPC not connected to the internet, I wouldn't bother upgrading.

I have no idea if madshi's recent work in the world of HDR makes use of any Win 10-specific capabilities, but you're quite right that with the current madVR release Win 10 adds nothing over 8.1.
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Old 15th July 2019, 18:24   #56847  |  Link
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Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit is it? I didn't say Windows 8.1 was a HTPC OS in the sense that you're trying to imply.
-> "I thought Windows 8.1 was the preferred HTPC OS for madVR."
Ok. You 'thought' something. And 'preferred'. I´m thinking many things too. And I know, some people (including madshi) prefer Windows 8 / 8.1. I prefer Windows 10. Like I said - preferences.

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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
You've posted a lot and still haven't provided any actual video playback features that are missing with Windows 8.1 from madVR's capabilities that need Windows 10. So, there aren't any?
In my opinion you can use Windows 7, Windows 8 or Windows 10 for a HTPC. I never used Windows 8, but 7 and 10. And I always could use all madVR features that I wanted to use.
I don´t think that something is missing in Windows 8.1 and I never claimed something like that.
In my personal setup I came across problems with Windows 10 1903. If I want to eliminate those problems at this moment, I can simply revert to Windows 10 1809, I personally don´t have to revert to Windows 8.1.
In my setup I don´t have any problems with Windows 10 1809, so I can say that Windows 10 1809 is a working OS for my setup.
So for me I can´t say that 8.1 is something preferred or 'better' than 10 because what is better than having no problems?
It´s the same matter like many people stick to a GPU driver that they experience as working/flawless for them. My fault was that I didn´t stick with 1809. That has nothing to do with a general 8 vs. 10 debate.
So now I´ve posted a lot again and 'provided' my opinion. I can definitely live with your opinion (why not) maybe you can live with mine
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Old 15th July 2019, 20:11   #56848  |  Link
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windows 8 is recommended for technical reasons.
because you don't notice the technical regression doesn't mean they are not there.
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Old 15th July 2019, 20:53   #56849  |  Link
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Hi.

I've been using madVR 'SDR' for a few years now. I recently got a projector that can also do HDR. I have the projector configured for both SDR & HDR formats. So I would like to know how I go about setting up profiles within madVR. I've found post that explains how to set up for resolutions profiles so that box is ticked. I would like to create a 'Calibration' profile to switch between HDR and SDR 'BT.709/BT.2020’. Is this possible?
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Old 15th July 2019, 21:05   #56850  |  Link
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Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
If a movie's HDR doesn't seem to peak above 150nit, Then setting the TV + Madvr to 150 nit, and using a 150nit 3Dlut would be better right ? Because then you have the slightly extended range of blacks for better contrast ?

This is on a VA-tv w/ 6500:1 contrast ratio. Am I correct in assuming this is how it'd work ?

As in the higher you set the TV, the brighter the black lvl, and if the peak range is not part of the movie, it just makes everything more grey/less black than is possible ?
That's right, with a movie that peaks so low is best to preserve the blacks, as long as your TV has a sufficient contrast ratio. Increasing blacks also causes noise to appear that otherwise remains hidden.
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Old 15th July 2019, 22:09   #56851  |  Link
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it made sense to move from 8 to 10 at the time as it was a free upgrade with a limited time span or so we were told, this was a bit of a con as you can still upgrade from win 7 / 8 free although Microsoft arent shouting this from the rooftops, about a month ago i had an old laptop on win7, i decided to run the win10 update activation and it worked, I now have a free win10 license for that machine showing on my MS account.

although once you've got the license you could do a clean win8 install but who could be bothered when everything seemed to be working. Problems only really started with 1803, 1709 was fine, AMD cards have been mostly fine throughout though, most issues ive had were just bad luck or user error, everything still works HDR/3D/23,976 frame drops still into days even with 3D.
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Old 15th July 2019, 23:13   #56852  |  Link
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windows 8 is recommended for technical reasons.
because you don't notice the technical regression doesn't mean they are not there.
Do you have any detailed information on what those issues are? I don't think I've ever seen them posted all together in the thread.
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Old 15th July 2019, 23:49   #56853  |  Link
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i can only tell a couple out of my head and they depend on the windows version.
FSE is simulated/faked on win 10. this is planned by microsoft and can result in all kinds of issues. they added a new great WFS 10 bit flip presentation but they can't leave there finger of FSE.
WFS 10 bit was broken a couple of times now this is not planned.
1903 just added a new level of banding thanks to yet another WDDM version this is month old.
windows 10 brought back the desktop composition mismatch issue from win 7. this is an extremely old bug and finally acknowledge by nvidia.
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Old 16th July 2019, 00:02   #56854  |  Link
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That's right, with a movie that peaks so low is best to preserve the blacks, as long as your TV has a sufficient contrast ratio. Increasing blacks also causes noise to appear that otherwise remains hidden.
Awesome, thx for confirming my theory. Dat new Battle Angel. Looks great, even if only ~150nit

gamma 2.2 relative w 100% black offset is pretty good at hiding black noise (setting recommended by Florian from dispcal for HDR)
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Old 16th July 2019, 00:09   #56855  |  Link
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You wanna watch the Open Matte release of Alita, not sure if it'll ever be released officially.
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Old 16th July 2019, 02:31   #56856  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Wull View Post
Hi.

I've been using madVR 'SDR' for a few years now. I recently got a projector that can also do HDR. I have the projector configured for both SDR & HDR formats. So I would like to know how I go about setting up profiles within madVR. I've found post that explains how to set up for resolutions profiles so that box is ticked. I would like to create a 'Calibration' profile to switch between HDR and SDR 'BT.709/BT.2020’. Is this possible?
Profile group name: DISPLAY
Use this auto select rule:
if (HDR) "BT.2020"
else "BT.709"

One profile name is BT.2020, the other is BT.709 for the calibration portion.

I ticked report BT.2020 to display (nVidia only) for BT.2020 although I can't remember why. Maybe someone knows exactly what that switch is for and can elaborate.
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Old 16th July 2019, 02:56   #56857  |  Link
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You wanna watch the Open Matte release of Alita, not sure if it'll ever be released officially.
Hahaha, major war goin' on in the Alita Threads, IMHO, I'll leave it up to the director to frame his movie. They both look fine to me. If I were myself truly important and non-self-deprecating, I'd opine that saving up the bitrate for a tighter crop is better because of how long the movie is, especially after adding DV track and 10+, if this was a BD100, then it'd go either way.
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Old 16th July 2019, 03:19   #56858  |  Link
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Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
Profile group name: DISPLAY
Use this auto select rule:
if (HDR) "BT.2020"
else "BT.709"

One profile name is BT.2020, the other is BT.709 for the calibration portion.

I ticked report BT.2020 to display (nVidia only) for BT.2020 although I can't remember why. Maybe someone knows exactly what that switch is for and can elaborate.
Report BT.2020 should only be needed if you select DCI-P3 in calibration. DCI-P3 sources and displays all follow BT.2020 color coordinates as defined by the ST.2100 UHD standard. If the display doesn't understand a DCI-P3 flag, the input colors might not be displayed with the correct BT.2020 coordinates.
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Old 16th July 2019, 07:54   #56859  |  Link
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Report BT.2020 should only be needed if you select DCI-P3 in calibration. DCI-P3 sources and displays all follow BT.2020 color coordinates as defined by the ST.2100 UHD standard. If the display doesn't understand a DCI-P3 flag, the input colors might not be displayed with the correct BT.2020 coordinates.


Thanks. My projector is the Epson ls10500. So think setting to DCI-P3 is correct.

What would happen if you select ‘disable calibration controls to this device’?
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Old 16th July 2019, 09:21   #56860  |  Link
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Report BT.2020 should only be needed if you select DCI-P3 in calibration. DCI-P3 sources and displays all follow BT.2020 color coordinates as defined by the ST.2100 UHD standard. If the display doesn't understand a DCI-P3 flag, the input colors might not be displayed with the correct BT.2020 coordinates.
Not with an LG Oled, colors get oversaturated using SDR if you profile the display and it switches bt.2020 mode, so it must be left unticked.
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