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Old 18th July 2020, 18:02   #1  |  Link
Ghitulescu
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The same Title/Object is played once as Movie and once as Menu

As the title says, I have two menus, each holding 4 episodes, a PlayAll option and a jump to each other link.
The PlayAll from the first menu is played as a Movie (it displays time, chapters, one can select subtitles), if however I use the identical function from the second menu, the same Title/Object is played as a Menu (on Pioneers it does not display times, chapters and no subtitle change, the player displays TOP which means the player thinks it plays the TopMenu; on the latest Sony X800M2 one can select subtitles but no information at all; the LG plays like the other two, but no info and no subtitle change).

The slight behaviour I assume comes from the fact that the two menus came differently from the authoring program, and refers each to a different Object (too bad one can't change the button commands in BD Edit).

First the PlayAll object (the initial check is to accomodate the second menu register settings):



Object 6 is the first menu. 7 is the second, whereas 17 is the PlayAll.
Now the selection/despatcher object (object 18):



In BDEdit these are the button commands (PlayAll; Next) that work as intended:


And these second set of button commands do play the PlayAll as a menu:


I am confused - why it behaves this way?
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Last edited by Ghitulescu; 19th July 2020 at 18:15. Reason: spelling
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Old 18th July 2020, 20:55   #2  |  Link
Ghitulescu
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Clarifications

For some reaosns the first two images were lost in the process.

Here they are:
The Play All object (17)


And the despatcher (Object 18):


I also realised I made a stupid mistake, it's the other way round - the PlayAll behaves as a movie when called from the second menu (directly from the menu) and as a menu when called via Object 18.
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Last edited by Ghitulescu; 19th July 2020 at 18:14. Reason: spelling
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Old 19th July 2020, 15:46   #3  |  Link
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I stand corrected for the last time
The first call, wherever it comes, it is treated as 'movie', the second and any subsequent calls are treated as Top Menu.
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Last edited by Ghitulescu; 19th July 2020 at 18:14. Reason: spelling
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Old 19th July 2020, 16:14   #4  |  Link
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Images are still not visible yet, pending approval.
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Old 22nd July 2020, 08:59   #5  |  Link
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While awaiting for the attached photos to be approuved, I'll explan in short the navigation philosophy.

Those that studied the commercial DVD architecture are probably familiar with the authoring that makes the First Play point directly at Title 1 (most usually the main movie), only that before reaching the movie, the pre-commands zone re-routes the navigation via conditional jumps and calls to other places (studio logos, technology logos, various warnings and "threats", trailers then finally menus).
This is the function of Object 18 in this BD. Unfortunately, there was an authoring error that made the second, otherwise identical menu to point to Object 17 instead. Object 17 was supposed to be the Play All object., collecting the calls of episodes playlists then giving the control to the Top Menu.
Again, that's too bad I couldn't find any way to edit that damn button command.

Anyway, since I have control upon the other objects via BD Edit, I decided to move the PlayAll functionality from Object 17 to another object, and to make the Object 17 another "Object 18" for Menu 2.
The problem remains - the first call to PlayAll from any menus is played as a movie, if however the playback is stopped via TopMenu call (the associated object points to the first menu, no under video, no buttons no nothing but bare commands) then selected from either menu, it plays as Top Menu.
There must be something so evident that is overlooked.
There are only Jump Object x, Play List x and Play Title x (this one only from menus) commands (except conditional gotos). Movie objects and Titles are marked as 'movie' the corresponding CLPIs are also marked as Main TS for Movie.
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Old 25th July 2020, 20:56   #6  |  Link
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Uhmm, can't you just upload the images to an external host? Maybe this can speed up a little bit...
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Old 25th July 2020, 21:16   #7  |  Link
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Postimage.org image host, account not mandatory.

No downside that I'm aware of in having an account,
but when no acc, occasionally slips in an advert link following the image link, just need remove that part of link after paste.
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"Some infinities are bigger than other infinities", but how many of them are infinitely bigger ???

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Old 26th July 2020, 08:19   #8  |  Link
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Thank you for suggestions, I will re-post the story using the external image providers.

So, there are two otherwise identically menus, each having 6 buttons, 4 reserved for episodes (Jump Title x), one for Play All and one for daisy-chaining to the next menu.
The four buttons (last two of each of the two menus) have attached the following commands' chain (left Play All, right Next Menu), note the authoring error (Object 18, correct, vs. Object 17, wrong):



The selection/despatcher object contains the following commands. Unfortunately, meanwhile I played a bit with the logic, so it doesn't look like it was supposed to be initially, but essentially it's the same.


And the following was the content of the Play All object (17), now the whole Play PL sequence was moved into another, separate Object. The 8 Play PL commands correspond to the existing individual episodes (4+4).


Side Note: Meanwhile I reauthor the similar BDs using conditional navigation at the end of each episode (right after Play PL) to direct the flow either to the menu or to the next title (=episode) in chain, just like many DVDs are using it (every episodic title has one object, and each object has 4 lines: play playlist + conditional jump, in the original state only 2 lines (play playlist + jump back menu)).
Nevertheless, I am curious why the first call is OK whereas the subsequent are menu-like; I know that nobody will ever run twice a play all sequence but the question still remains.
Thanks for looking
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Old 26th July 2020, 15:58   #9  |  Link
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but the difference I see is that from first menu (mo 6) you get the "playall episodes" jumping to mo 17 through mo 18, while second menu (mo 7) have a "play all episode" jumping to mo 17 directly. Have you tried switching the playback type of mo 18 from "Interactive" to "Movie"? Interactive is used mainly when you need to have more than one playlist in a movie object (and this can lead to missing time and similar problems on the STB), but since it's a dispatcher, you seems to only have jumps or one playlist only, thus the "interactive" type is not needed at all.
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Old 26th July 2020, 16:30   #10  |  Link
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Yes, you're right.
The error in menus' commands I cannot change (it should have needed only to put MO18 instead of existing MO17), so I added at PlayAll MO17 a short conditional jump, not originally existing.

The fact remains, that the very first call of PlayAll MO17 is dealt with normally, that is one can see the running time, can change the subtitles, can see the chapter marks (depending on the player, one can see more items or less, anyway, the duration is limited to the currently played Playlist).

I changed 'interactive' to 'movie' and back countless times, in various combinations, I do not remember which was which initially.

What I am curious about is what changes between the calls.

Meanwhile, the moving of PlayPL sequence from MO17 to another MO, callable from both MO18 and MO17, presents the same symptoms - which means the "TopMenu" characteristics is preserved during these calls, and not reset by the 'movie' attribute of MO (17, 18 or 1, that's the new PlayAll).

So I redrawn all the navigation from scratch, it's not that complicated anyway, using the conditional jumps to next title should the playall indicator was set, otherwise getting back to the menu.

This question remains, for I'd like to know what causes it, and to avoid in the future, in my own authored BDs.
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Old 26th July 2020, 16:46   #11  |  Link
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This authoring seems a "make hard something easy". Normally you can have single episodes playback and "play all" playback just creating different playlists, one for each episode and an additional one containing all the grouped episodes put together in different playitems. In this way you can move back and forth and have a total runtime made of all the episodes put together. As it is now, it's like a single play this and play that, so I guess the runtime resets each time there's a change in episode's playback.

Btw, I think object 17 should be flagged as "Interactive" (you're playing a lot of playlists there) and object 18 left as "Movie". If you have BD Reauthor Pro and Scenarist, you could try to demux to a project and see what's happening. I think Scenarist itself may complain that there's something wrong.

Regarding the TopMenu characteristics, there aren't so many and I find it hard to be preserved during calls. You can only set the Movie/Interactive flag, the MovieObject flag/mask (like in every title) and the playlist UOPs (like every title as well)

Last edited by mp3dom; 26th July 2020 at 17:45.
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Old 26th July 2020, 18:57   #12  |  Link
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The authoring has most probably a standard set of "building blocks" (note the language check in MO18/despatcher although there was only one language), which are only adapted to a particular environment. Since I needed the menus, I had to stick with it and make the best thereof.

The most annoying thing is that I can't edit the commands in menus. I'll see whether HEXediting would bring something.

BTW: I have found 4 solutions to a PlayAll thing, depending on the manner I have the video.
  • a sequence of Play PL calls (some HW players may not like it) - the laziest method
  • conditional daisy-chaining of individual titles (always work)
  • one mega playlist comprising playitems (the episodes) - unfortunately to insert chapter marks in BDEdit is cumbersome (always work)
  • for one M2TS a single playlist, (for episodes within) different playlists pointing at various corresponding entry and exit points of said huge file (always work)
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