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Old 29th June 2018, 08:20   #51581  |  Link
ryrynz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veggav View Post
Actually, setting sharpness is quite difficult to do with 4k because you can't spot on the right point where noise starts to be added.
You're not looking for noise, you're looking for ringing / changes in brightness.
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Old 29th June 2018, 13:07   #51582  |  Link
veggav
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Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
Noise with madVR's upscaling has been mentioned a few times recently. It is surprising the Oppo is less sharp or it is using some type of denoising filter. The HTPC shouldn't be creating noise not found in the source. Have you tried sending a limited range signal instead of a full range signal to see if your display is doing a poor RGB conversion? Combining NGU Sharp with the free version of reduce compression artifacts can sometimes help but will soften titles with film grain.
Hi Warner, I'll test limited range tonight and see if that makes a difference.

When you are referring to reduce compression artifacts you mean a separate software or an option in a recent version of MadVR?
I remember a denoise option in the newest Madvr but I can't use it with Jriver and UHD BD menus for now.

By the way, what's the consensus on the quality of DXVA scalling? Terrible? Worth looking into?
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Old 29th June 2018, 16:52   #51583  |  Link
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Originally Posted by veggav View Post
Hi Warner, I'll test limited range tonight and see if that makes a difference.

When you are referring to reduce compression artifacts you mean a separate software or an option in a recent version of MadVR?
I remember a denoise option in the newest Madvr but I can't use it with Jriver and UHD BD menus for now.

By the way, what's the consensus on the quality of DXVA scalling? Terrible? Worth looking into?
If you choose NGU Sharp, you can choose reduce compression artifacts under artifact removal with a checkbox that adds it for no additional resource use.

You might as well just use Kodi VideoPlayer if you are going to use DXVA scaling. It is just hardware scaling and not that great if you are using a Nvidia or AMD GPU.
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Old 29th June 2018, 17:57   #51584  |  Link
mrmojo666
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Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
If you choose NGU Sharp, you can choose reduce compression artifacts under artifact removal with a checkbox that adds it for no additional resource use.

You might as well just use Kodi VideoPlayer if you are going to use DXVA scaling. It is just hardware scaling and not that great if you are using a Nvidia or AMD GPU.
just an opinion about dxva upscaling in madvr, when upscale 720/1080 to 4k i notice that it is way better than using internal renderer of mediaportal or mpc-hc. maybe worse than ngu, honestly on my tv (55") the electricity used with ngu doesn't worth the expense. With < 720 I can see ngu is totally another universe than dxva.
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Old 29th June 2018, 18:06   #51585  |  Link
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than just use bicubic in madVR at least you don't get banding or wrong position chroma this way.

the EVR renderer in MPC-HC is using DXVA scaling. by default EVR-CP is using bilinear you can change this to bicubic which is again similar to AMD NVIDIA DXVA scaling.
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Old 30th June 2018, 13:15   #51586  |  Link
waldnebel
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Why are the rendering stats of the last 5 seconds in the fse mode this different from the average stats?


What I get as information is the following:


D3D11 exclusive (10 bit)

average stats
rendering: 26.0ms


max stats (5s)
rendering: varying from 26.0ms to mainly 46.0ms


What is causing this strange 46.0ms peak? Dropped or repeated frames are not reported.


If I activate that windowed overlay mode I get a constant rendering time of around 21.0ms on both sides but that mode gets identified as D3D11 fullscreen windowed (8 bit) and that 8 bit is causing a lot of headaches. I was expecting the same as in the fse mode.

I'm using Windows 10, Version 1803 and the nvidia driver 398.36. The power management mode is set to Optimal power. The CPU is set to High Performance.


I have probably also a last question, then I'm done configuring madvr. Should I leave the gamma correction slider of my TV alone?


Thank you for that clarification regarding the HDR option of windows 10, Asmodian.
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Old 30th June 2018, 13:28   #51587  |  Link
SirSwede
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veggav View Post
Today I took a few hours, the Godfather Blu-ray and played it on the OPPO 103 and MadVR.

I tried every upscaling shader and ended up using NGU AA very high.

Still, the OPPO seemed better with less noise.
But I think I found a way to make both images identical, there's a noise reduction setting on nvidia control panel, if you set it to 30~50% the sharpned grain by MadVR becomes less noticeable and the noise patterns are almost identical.

I know the newest MadVR have denoise feature but since I'm using Jriver and I use BD and UHD BD menus I can't update.
Tried MadMax UHD recently with the newest MadVR and JRiver and there were subtitles only if the pop up menu was open.
(not blaming MadVR, just commenting).

I would like to ask you, since MadVR is doing all the upscaling do you guys use Cinema mode with your display?
I believe Game or Graphics/PC mode would give you a more raw image but since MadVR is dealing with it, is there a point in using it?
I have found using Madvr in Game Mode produces the best picture quality.
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Old 30th June 2018, 17:15   #51588  |  Link
Asmodian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waldnebel View Post
The power management mode is set to Optimal power.
Do not use optimal power, that is too conservative. Try adaptive.

A few spikes up to 46ms should not be a problem, that is what the buffers are for.

To use windowed overlay you must turn off D3D11, D3D11 overrides other options for rendering API. Why is 8-bit a problem? 8 bit is often higher quality than 10 bit (like on my 2017 LG OLED) and 10 bit is not very important even when the display handles it well. Can you tell the difference between?

Gamma should be correct on your TV, setting it on the TV would normally be part of calibration, which I would do before a software calibration or configuring madVR. You can adjust gamma in madVR but it is usually better to do it on the TV if you can.
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Old 1st July 2018, 10:26   #51589  |  Link
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@madshi
I know you are working hard on HDR stuffs but can we expect other improvements or features in the next release like a sharper NGU Sharp, anime optimized NGU or maybe new upscalers for lowend/fanless/laptop devices?
Is it true your new algo will be a SVP killer?
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Old 1st July 2018, 12:16   #51590  |  Link
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A *sharper* NGU Sharp? It's amazingly sharp already.
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Old 1st July 2018, 12:49   #51591  |  Link
ryrynz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sauma144 View Post
@madshi
I know you are working hard on HDR stuffs but can we expect other improvements
There will be other improvements in time, but for the time being.. nope to everything you said :P
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Old 1st July 2018, 13:17   #51592  |  Link
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A *sharper* NGU Sharp? It's amazingly sharp already.
It was an example, I don't know if it's possible to make it sharper without destroying the picture.
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Old 1st July 2018, 13:59   #51593  |  Link
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Of course not. "Sharpness" can only exist in an original picture. Every other attempt to filter a soft image only increases contrasts, but restoring or even creating originally lost sharpness is impossible. For reasons, see Wikipedia: Gibbs phenomenon, plus try to imagine how to discover which summands were added to a sum, how many valid results this question may have (as results of any scaling are all weighted sums). The best one can try is limiting annoying side effects like the mentioned "ringing artifacts", but the result may still be an artificial "plastic" look.
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Old 1st July 2018, 14:03   #51594  |  Link
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Hello.
Not specifically related to madvr, but maybe I will get answer without creation of separate topic.
I failed to find any similar issue with google and forum search.

I have a problem with chroma shift 0.5 pixel to right and 0.5 pixel to bottom on any 4:2:0 video any player any renderer when my monitor is connected to my NVIDIA 1060 (driver 388.59, not the freshest at the moment).
At the same time my old integrated Intel HD3000 doesn't have such an issue.
Here are some illustrations for horizontal shift:
V plane, taken in avspmod, doubled in size:
1) as it is in the original video
2) as it is shown by Intel graphics
3) as it is shown by Nvidia graphics

Ultrazoomed example
https://puu.sh/AOK8y.png
https://puu.sh/AOKdl.png
Win7, Version of madvr 0.91.11, default chroma scaling but I think it doesn't matter as far as it is the same issue for other programs.
Please help or say where should I go. Thanks.

Last edited by Chyrka; 1st July 2018 at 15:34.
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Old 1st July 2018, 15:46   #51595  |  Link
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Are you using any DXVA scaling options? This is a known issues with Nvidia's DXVA scaling.
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Old 1st July 2018, 21:44   #51596  |  Link
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Changing the video decoding method might also help.
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Old 1st July 2018, 21:58   #51597  |  Link
Chyrka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
Changing the video decoding method might also help.
Switching to DXVA (copy-back) in LAV decoder fixed the issue.
Thank you, guys Warner306, Asmodian.

Last edited by Chyrka; 1st July 2018 at 22:09.
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Old 1st July 2018, 22:53   #51598  |  Link
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What were you using before?
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Old 2nd July 2018, 09:17   #51599  |  Link
Chyrka
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What were you using before?
DXVA2 (native) - the default value, if I am not mistaken.
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Old 2nd July 2018, 16:00   #51600  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sauma144
Can we expect other improvements or features in the next release like a sharper NGU Sharp, anime optimized NGU or maybe new upscalers for lowend/fanless/laptop devices?
Is it true your new algo will be a SVP killer?
FSRCNNX is already sharper than NGU-AA, the SSIM variant is even more sharper.
Everybody knows the madshi's new algo is a motion interpolation one.
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