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Old 31st October 2018, 11:22   #53481  |  Link
mytbyte
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Originally Posted by Betroz View Post
I had my queue sizes at 8, but I got a lot of dropped frames. That went away when I put them higher. Why that is, I don't know.
On the contrary, in my setup, lowering queue size to 4 allowed me to use D3D11 native on a GT 1030 without stuttering or dropped frames...it has probably something to do with the gfx card having only 2GB of memory and more UHD frames in advance couldn't fit in there...
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Old 31st October 2018, 11:25   #53482  |  Link
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Might want to try setting the queues back to defaults again, that issue you had may have since been resolved. Only takes a moment to test.
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Old 31st October 2018, 11:51   #53483  |  Link
mytbyte
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Might want to try setting the queues back to defaults again, that issue you had may have since been resolved. Only takes a moment to test.
Sorry, failed to mention it's the case with HFR HDR (60 fps) in any scenario/settings. 24 fps, even when set to no downscale to simulate 4K output, smooth motion on and compromise off, it's smooth, albeit marginally (41 ms) with queue value of 16.
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Old 31st October 2018, 13:12   #53484  |  Link
Betroz
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Might want to try setting the queues back to defaults again, that issue you had may have since been resolved. Only takes a moment to test.
Was that a reply to me? I tested this yesterday with the newest version of MadVr and MPC-HC, so no nothing has been fixed.
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Old 31st October 2018, 13:15   #53485  |  Link
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Originally Posted by mytbyte View Post
On the contrary, in my setup, lowering queue size to 4 allowed me to use D3D11 native on a GT 1030 without stuttering or dropped frames...it has probably something to do with the gfx card having only 2GB of memory and more UHD frames in advance couldn't fit in there...
Ok, but my card has 8GB of VRAM (GTX 1080).
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Old 31st October 2018, 20:01   #53486  |  Link
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Hi all,

can somebody help me I read plenty of sites of this great thread but unfortunately I am not that deep into all the madvr settings. I used the asmodian profile but I think there is plenty of optimization I can do. I run kodi with ds player and own a gtx 960 4g with a 4.5ghz devil canyon i5 windows 10 and 8gb ram. I am looking forward to Buy a new gpu soon but now where new cards will be released I think maybe it is a better solution to get the optimum out of my system and buy later cheaper an old rx580 or a vege 56/64.

My sources are dvd, blu-ray and uhd mkv I played on a calibrated LG oled. So does someone can provide me a good profile and settings for the gtx 960. I am so far happy with the results but when I read about the card should be able to run this and those my Asus strix won't be able to do this. But I think that will be related to my bad knowledge on topic. So if someone is willing to share his gtx 960 settings with me then I can take maybe a deeper look to understand why something won't work. As you can see I just used the lowest profile from user asmodian but when I read in this thread I have the feeling that I could achieve more and better but I have a wrong profile or so. I am on German region so 24/25/50/60p will be mainly the content to play.

Brgds
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Old 31st October 2018, 20:49   #53487  |  Link
el Filou
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
and a chroma scaler will never turn something white is literal impossible.
Not sure if it's brightness or saturation but I remember from my own comparisons between a 4:4:4 video and the 4:2:0 version processed by madVR, that for example ReconSharp made every red bit stand out more.
Classic scalers that don't take luma into account can't do that of course.
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Old 31st October 2018, 21:37   #53488  |  Link
huhn
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even reconstruct doesn't touch luma.

and to get a white pixel you need that in the first place and the chroma scaler has to remove the color.

and most important xbr 150 not using 150 but 100 instead is the real trick.
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Old 31st October 2018, 22:25   #53489  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by Ampallang View Post
My sources are dvd, blu-ray and uhd mkv I played on a calibrated LG oled. So does someone can provide me a good profile and settings for the gtx 960. I am so far happy with the results but when I read about the card should be able to run this and those my Asus strix won't be able to do this. But I think that will be related to my bad knowledge on topic. So if someone is willing to share his gtx 960 settings with me then I can take maybe a deeper look to understand why something won't work. As you can see I just used the lowest profile from user asmodian but when I read in this thread I have the feeling that I could achieve more and better but I have a wrong profile or so. I am on German region so 24/25/50/60p will be mainly the content to play.

Brgds
Ampa'
Try these:

4K UHD:
  • Chroma: NGU Anti-Alias (medium)
  • Downscaling: SSIM 1D 100% + LL + AR
  • Image upscaling: Jinc + AR
  • Image doubling: Off
  • Upscaling refinement: Off
  • Artifact removal - Debanding: Off
  • Artifact removal - Deringing: Off
  • Artifact removal - Deblocking: Off
  • Artifact removal - Denoising: Off
  • Image enhancements: Off
  • Dithering: Error Diffusion 2

1080p:
  • Chroma: NGU Anti-Alias (low)
  • Downscaling: SSIM 1D 100% + LL + AR
  • Image upscaling: Off
  • Image doubling: NGU Sharp
  • <-- Luma doubling: high
  • <-- Luma quadrupling: let madVR decide (direct quadruple - NGU Sharp (high))
  • <-- Chroma: let madVR decide (Bicubic60 + AR)
  • <-- Doubling: let madVR decide (scaling factor 1.2x (or bigger))
  • <-- Quadrupling: let madVR decide (scaling factor 2.4x (or bigger))
  • <-- Upscaling algo: let madVR decide (Bicubic60 + AR)
  • <-- Downscaling algo: let madVR decide (Bicubic150 + LL + AR)
  • Upscaling refinement: Off
  • Artifact removal - Debanding: medium/medium
  • Artifact removal - Deringing: Off
  • Artifact removal - Deblocking: Off
  • Artifact removal - Denoising: Off
  • Image enhancements: Off
  • Dithering: Error Diffusion 2

DVD:
  • Chroma: NGU Anti-Alias (low)
  • Downscaling: SSIM 1D 100% + LL + AR
  • Image upscaling: Off
  • Image doubling: NGU Anti-Alias
  • <-- Luma doubling: high
  • <-- Luma quadrupling: let madVR decide (direct quadruple - NGU Anti-Alias (high))
  • <-- Chroma: let madVR decide (Bicubic60 + AR)
  • <-- Doubling: let madVR decide (scaling factor 1.2x (or bigger))
  • <-- Quadrupling: let madVR decide (scaling factor 2.4x (or bigger))
  • <-- Upscaling algo: let madVR decide (Bicubic60 + AR)
  • <-- Downscaling algo: let madVR decide (Bicubic150 + LL + AR)
  • Upscaling refinement: Off
  • Artifact removal - Debanding: medium/medium
  • Artifact removal - Deringing: Off
  • Artifact removal - Deblocking: Off
  • Artifact removal - Denoising: Off
  • Image enhancements: Off
  • Dithering: Error Diffusion 2

You may not agree with the use debanding with those profiles. If you want the image to be sharper, try adding some image enhancements/upscaling refinement.

There is more information in the link in my signature if you are interested. The choice of what to use is mostly up to you.
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Old 31st October 2018, 22:42   #53490  |  Link
ryrynz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mytbyte View Post
albeit marginally (41 ms) with queue value of 16.
Cutting it terribly close there, you really want it under 40ms to avoid frame drops for 24fps content.
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Old 31st October 2018, 23:24   #53491  |  Link
SirSwede
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
Try these:

4K UHD:
  • Chroma: NGU Anti-Alias (medium)
  • Downscaling: SSIM 1D 100% + LL + AR
  • Image upscaling: Jinc + AR
  • Image doubling: Off
  • Upscaling refinement: Off
  • Artifact removal - Debanding: Off
  • Artifact removal - Deringing: Off
  • Artifact removal - Deblocking: Off
  • Artifact removal - Denoising: Off
  • Image enhancements: Off
  • Dithering: Error Diffusion 2

1080p:
  • Chroma: NGU Anti-Alias (low)
  • Downscaling: SSIM 1D 100% + LL + AR
  • Image upscaling: Off
  • Image doubling: NGU Sharp
  • <-- Luma doubling: high
  • <-- Luma quadrupling: let madVR decide (direct quadruple - NGU Sharp (high))
  • <-- Chroma: let madVR decide (Bicubic60 + AR)
  • <-- Doubling: let madVR decide (scaling factor 1.2x (or bigger))
  • <-- Quadrupling: let madVR decide (scaling factor 2.4x (or bigger))
  • <-- Upscaling algo: let madVR decide (Bicubic60 + AR)
  • <-- Downscaling algo: let madVR decide (Bicubic150 + LL + AR)
  • Upscaling refinement: Off
  • Artifact removal - Debanding: medium/medium
  • Artifact removal - Deringing: Off
  • Artifact removal - Deblocking: Off
  • Artifact removal - Denoising: Off
  • Image enhancements: Off
  • Dithering: Error Diffusion 2

DVD:
  • Chroma: NGU Anti-Alias (low)
  • Downscaling: SSIM 1D 100% + LL + AR
  • Image upscaling: Off
  • Image doubling: NGU Anti-Alias
  • <-- Luma doubling: high
  • <-- Luma quadrupling: let madVR decide (direct quadruple - NGU Anti-Alias (high))
  • <-- Chroma: let madVR decide (Bicubic60 + AR)
  • <-- Doubling: let madVR decide (scaling factor 1.2x (or bigger))
  • <-- Quadrupling: let madVR decide (scaling factor 2.4x (or bigger))
  • <-- Upscaling algo: let madVR decide (Bicubic60 + AR)
  • <-- Downscaling algo: let madVR decide (Bicubic150 + LL + AR)
  • Upscaling refinement: Off
  • Artifact removal - Debanding: medium/medium
  • Artifact removal - Deringing: Off
  • Artifact removal - Deblocking: Off
  • Artifact removal - Denoising: Off
  • Image enhancements: Off
  • Dithering: Error Diffusion 2

You may not agree with the use debanding with those profiles. If you want the image to be sharper, try adding some image enhancements/upscaling refinement.

There is more information in the link in my signature if you are interested. The choice of what to use is mostly up to you.
Wow! Great recommendation!

Would you or anyone else, be able to do the same for me for 540p and 720p material on a calibrated Panasonic TX-55FZ800E 4K OLED, with a GTX 1050 Ti 4GB OC Edition Zotac card and I'd be eternally grateful!

(I don't like my image that sharp, since I will be adding Sharpen Complex 2 in MPC-HC (post processing) anyway.


Last edited by SirSwede; 31st October 2018 at 23:27.
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Old 31st October 2018, 23:47   #53492  |  Link
Alexkral
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
there is a shader version of nnedi3.
You mean Shiandow's? It's NEDI not nnedi3 and anyway it doesn't seem very useful.
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Old 31st October 2018, 23:48   #53493  |  Link
LigH
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I already wondered ... Neural Networks in a GPU implementation?! Want!
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Old 31st October 2018, 23:54   #53494  |  Link
nevcairiel
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I already wondered ... Neural Networks in a GPU implementation?! Want!
Wut? Most Neural Networks rely on GPUs to run them at any speed, because GPUs are actually pretty good at that, because it can be paralized really well. Not to mention even newer stuff with specialized hardware just for that task, ie. Tensor Cores.

We had NNEDI3 in madVR for a while, a Neural Network based scaler. But it was removed because it was ultimately decided that the added complexity in madVR was not worth it (since it was the only component to use OpenCL IIRC), and other algorithms could flat out replace it at higher speeds and quality.

Neural Networks can be really powerful, and who knows if some day one might return to madVR, but the real challenge with Neural Networks is training them. You need absolutely massive compute power to train a Neural Network. All those fancy NVIDIA demos you see for image processing, those are trained on super computers, large clusters with hundreds if not thousands of NVIDIA GPUs to train the network. Of course no mere mortal has that sort of resources to train a network.
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Last edited by nevcairiel; 1st November 2018 at 00:04.
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Old 1st November 2018, 00:00   #53495  |  Link
nussman
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I already wondered ... Neural Networks in a GPU implementation?! Want!
What are you talking about? Of course nnedi3 by madVR was done by GPU ...
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Old 1st November 2018, 00:02   #53496  |  Link
videoh
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I already wondered ... Neural Networks in a GPU implementation?! Want!
https://developer.nvidia.com/cudnn
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Old 1st November 2018, 03:24   #53497  |  Link
huhn
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https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php...postcount=3202

yes in a shader. it wasn't slower to if i remember correctly.
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Old 1st November 2018, 03:57   #53498  |  Link
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Madshi will have a new release out soon with some big improvements to HDR tone-mapping.
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Old 1st November 2018, 04:26   #53499  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by SirSwede View Post
Wow! Great recommendation!

Would you or anyone else, be able to do the same for me for 540p and 720p material on a calibrated Panasonic TX-55FZ800E 4K OLED, with a GTX 1050 Ti 4GB OC Edition Zotac card and I'd be eternally grateful!

(I don't like my image that sharp, since I will be adding Sharpen Complex 2 in MPC-HC (post processing) anyway.

You could just replace every NGU Sharp entry with NGU Anti-Alias.
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Old 1st November 2018, 04:33   #53500  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Wut? Most Neural Networks rely on GPUs to run them at any speed, because GPUs are actually pretty good at that, because it can be paralized really well. Not to mention even newer stuff with specialized hardware just for that task, ie. Tensor Cores.

We had NNEDI3 in madVR for a while, a Neural Network based scaler. But it was removed because it was ultimately decided that the added complexity in madVR was not worth it (since it was the only component to use OpenCL IIRC), and other algorithms could flat out replace it at higher speeds and quality.

Neural Networks can be really powerful, and who knows if some day one might return to madVR, but the real challenge with Neural Networks is training them. You need absolutely massive compute power to train a Neural Network. All those fancy NVIDIA demos you see for image processing, those are trained on super computers, large clusters with hundreds if not thousands of NVIDIA GPUs to train the network. Of course no mere mortal has that sort of resources to train a network.
It was mentioned a while ago that NGU is based on neural networks. madshi posted at some point that the training was done by comparing downscaled images to the original. Maybe he has an evil lair with a bunch of super computers/GPUs to do this type of training?

If you look at screenshots, you can see that NGU picks up details like eyelashes that are missed by Lanczos and super-xbr. NGU very high pushes the GPU so hard that hundreds of thousands of repeated calculations must be taking place. NGU Anti-Alias is also a very similar upscaler to NNEDI3 and most seem to prefer it.

Personally, I think all images should eventually be scaled by neural networks when Tensor Core technology is scaled down. If, like me, you are frequently comparing Kodi VideoPlayer with Lanczos3 to NGU Sharp very high, they aren't the same image. Lanczos creates some artifacts, but it also smears a lot of valid detail. All of those eyelashes add up when the image is large.

With that said, I don't think NGU Sharp was trained well with poor material. I have seen some content look like an oil painting that kind of made me drunk while watching it.
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