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Old 23rd April 2018, 18:41   #50341  |  Link
theDongerr
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
It was only available in the test builds. I've removed it because it didn't really bring anything useful to the table. E.g. if you had peak=100 and diffuseWhite=20, you can achieve the exact same output by using peak=500 now. Basically diffuseWhite just scaled the peak number, nothing else.
So moving forward from the old method peak=100 divided by diffuseWhite=20 is 5. The 5 is your multiplier on a base of 100nits and that's how you get 500.

So if I was doing peak=100 diffuseWhite=40 before, my new peak=250?


Thanks for all you do madshi.

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Old 24th April 2018, 01:55   #50342  |  Link
MrDVader
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Target peak nits

What should I enter for "Target peak nits" when converting HDR to SDR?

I have a JVC DLA-RS400, 126" screen, 170 lamp hours, dark room.

According to webprojectorcalculator.com I have:

79 nits in low lamp mode
106 nits in high lamp mode

I'm using the latest madvr version.

Edit:
Also, my projector has not been calibrated (except basic gray scale by eye) but is set to BT.2020 color space. Nevertheless, should I set madvr to calibrated to BT.2020, or DCI-P3, and power curve 2.40?

I tried DCI-P3 but the colours went too red, BT.2020 with 2.40 appears to look very good, as does my current peak nits of 100 - if I up the peak nits, it just appears to produce increasing black crush AND somewhat over exposed whites. I have manual iris fully open and auto iris on 2 (which apparently is more graduated that the other more contrasty setting)

Last edited by MrDVader; 24th April 2018 at 02:08.
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Old 24th April 2018, 09:57   #50343  |  Link
Asmodian
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Originally Posted by MrDVader View Post
BT.2020 with 2.40 appears to look very good, as does my current peak nits of 100 - if I up the peak nits, it just appears to produce increasing black crush AND somewhat over exposed whites.
BT.2020 with a peak nits of 100 it is then.

Seriously though, HDR processing is not very uniform right now so we would need experiance with your projector and a meter to be sure. That said, the HDR output should probably be set to BT.2020 as you found. Almost everything HDR is encoded in the very wide BT.2020 color space so I think most displays do better mapping when receiving BT.2020. Gamma is very much user preference and madVR's settings only have an effect when using madVR to change the gamma.
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Old 24th April 2018, 12:47   #50344  |  Link
suanm
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I wonder whether Mr. madshi has a plan to integrate the Open GL renderer with madvr .When I play 4K HDR movies in Open GL rendering mode,i can get better image quality in open gl mode than i do in D3D11 rendering mode of Madvr.Better color images at least.I look up the parameters in the format in Open GL mode of potplayer.
The orders is :NV12(INPUT)-->RGBA(video)-->XRGB(backbuffer-->display).Due to RGBA(video) conversion,my TV set displays lifelike color images.Unfortunately,there is no 60fps feature to be available as the Open GL rendering mode of potplayer runs. So i hope Mr. madshi integrate the Open GL renderer in madvr . Thanks in advance,Mr.madshi
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Old 24th April 2018, 15:56   #50345  |  Link
Warner306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDVader View Post
What should I enter for "Target peak nits" when converting HDR to SDR?

I have a JVC DLA-RS400, 126" screen, 170 lamp hours, dark room.

According to webprojectorcalculator.com I have:

79 nits in low lamp mode
106 nits in high lamp mode

I'm using the latest madvr version.

Edit:
Also, my projector has not been calibrated (except basic gray scale by eye) but is set to BT.2020 color space. Nevertheless, should I set madvr to calibrated to BT.2020, or DCI-P3, and power curve 2.40?

I tried DCI-P3 but the colours went too red, BT.2020 with 2.40 appears to look very good, as does my current peak nits of 100 - if I up the peak nits, it just appears to produce increasing black crush AND somewhat over exposed whites. I have manual iris fully open and auto iris on 2 (which apparently is more graduated that the other more contrasty setting)
Target nits is completely up to preference and experimentation. Increasing the peak nits value has a similar effect to increasing the gamma; the image gets progressively darker. This is because the tone mapping is more gradual in the transition from dark to light. The result is more contrast and dynamic range. So you should aim for the highest peak nits value you can use without crushing black. This will produce more highlights and a greater HDR effect. A properly calibrated HDR display should be a little darker than SDR without crushing shadow detail.
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Old 24th April 2018, 15:58   #50346  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by suanm View Post
I wonder whether Mr. madshi has a plan to integrate the Open GL renderer with madvr .When I play 4K HDR movies in Open GL rendering mode,i can get better image quality in open gl mode than i do in D3D11 rendering mode of Madvr.Better color images at least.I look up the parameters in the format in Open GL mode of potplayer.
The orders is :NV12(INPUT)-->RGBA(video)-->XRGB(backbuffer-->display).Due to RGBA(video) conversion,my TV set displays lifelike color images.Unfortunately,there is no 60fps feature to be available as the Open GL rendering mode of potplayer runs. So i hope Mr. madshi integrate the Open GL renderer in madvr . Thanks in advance,Mr.madshi
I believe Kodi uses OpenGL. I don't see how this is an advantage. Kodi converts any 10-bit input to 8-bit sRGB before outputting to the target gamut. So this is a lossy process. I notice the colors in Kodi are slightly different but not more lifelike. They look wrong and probably are wrong.
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Old 24th April 2018, 16:11   #50347  |  Link
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OpenGL or D3D do not have an impact on the image quality - it all depends on the algorithms you use to process the image. I'm not madshi, but I think I can safely state that madVR will never use OpenGL.
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Old 24th April 2018, 17:18   #50348  |  Link
suanm
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Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
I believe Kodi uses OpenGL. I don't see how this is an advantage. Kodi converts any 10-bit input to 8-bit sRGB before outputting to the target gamut. So this is a lossy process. I notice the colors in Kodi are slightly different but not more lifelike. They look wrong and probably are wrong.
There is no conversion of HDR to SDR in KODI.So i have to abandon KODI.My video&audio decoders are LAV.The output format is NV12 after decoding,i use OpenGL as renderer in potplayer instead of D3D11 or madvr.By D3D11 or madvr i feel the color of images doesn't look lifelike or natural on my tv set.for example,i do not distinguish their skin color between orientals and westerners by D3D11 or Madvr.it's so to easy to distinguish their differences by OpenGL renderer,though.This is why i prefer OpenGL render.
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Old 24th April 2018, 17:42   #50349  |  Link
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Something is wrong then. I have an i1 Pro 2 and i1 Display Pro which I regularly use to measure the color generated by madVR. madVR is very accurate and able to perfectly display any in gamut color. I have never used PotPlayer but it seems obvious that it is doing some saturation enhancement or something.

As nevairiel said, any differences are due to processing, not the API used to get the video into the GPU.
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Old 24th April 2018, 18:04   #50350  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
OpenGL or D3D do not have an impact on the image quality - it all depends on the algorithms you use to process the image. I'm not madshi, but I think I can safely state that madVR will never use OpenGL.
I am fairly certain OpenGL is limited to 8-bit processing. At least, it is on Linux. Kodi has been waiting for updates to support 10-bit passthrough. The rest of the processing likely comes down to the algorithms chosen. The poster noted the input is also converted to sRGB, like Kodi, so maybe this is also standard or the preferred method of rendering in OpenGL.
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Old 24th April 2018, 20:44   #50351  |  Link
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openGL is not limited to 8 bit processing it's 32 bit: https://www.khronos.org/opengl/wiki/Image_Format

but as always these open standarts are to open same counts for vulkan:

Quote:
The OpenGL specification is fairly lenient about what image formats OpenGL implementations provide. It allows implementations to fall-back to other formats transparently, even when doing so would degrade the visual quality of the image due to being at a lower bitdepth.
and it doesn't matter both output RGB and the RGB values in madVR are correct. if you want more "color" think about the vivid mode on your end device.
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Old 24th April 2018, 21:44   #50352  |  Link
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Ok, so I don't know what technological limitations are limiting rendering in Kodi.

I have nothing against Kodi. I just think its video rendering needs to be updated to keep up with the times. I thought OpenGL standards were to blame.
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Old 24th April 2018, 21:52   #50353  |  Link
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Hi guys, recently took off the lazy hat and setup 3dlut through display cal

How do I verify the output with madvr// madtpg ?

The profile is installed into madvr and as far as I can tell, the color correction is working when videos play but I don't see a test tab anywhere.
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Old 24th April 2018, 22:25   #50354  |  Link
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I like ColorHCFR. Simply measure your color space with the 3DLUT enabled in madTPG.
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Last edited by Asmodian; 25th April 2018 at 06:39.
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Old 25th April 2018, 00:37   #50355  |  Link
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Originally Posted by suanm View Post
This is why i prefer OpenGL render.
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if you want more "color" think about the vivid mode on your end device.
Or better perhaps add a few points to madVR's saturation levels + any of the various sharpeners available (I find Adaptive sharpen rather nice) and your own displays color settings.

You're better off using madVR to get the picture you want, rather than relying on a renderer that's clearly deviating from the original image by default.
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Old 25th April 2018, 00:47   #50356  |  Link
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OpenGL or D3D do not have an impact on the image quality - it all depends on the algorithms you use to process the image. I'm not madshi, but I think I can safely state that madVR will never use OpenGL.
Master,why will madshi never integrate OpenGL in madVR ?
To be honest I'm not good at the technologies about video, processing algorithms,renderer and so on.I only use potplayer to play 4K HDR or 1080p movies on my TV set.
BY the way,Could you build any ***.zip instead of ***.exe in nightly version about LAV files?
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Old 25th April 2018, 00:57   #50357  |  Link
suanm
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Or better perhaps add a few points to madVR's saturation levels + any of the various sharpeners available (I find Adaptive sharpen rather nice) and your own displays color settings.

You're better off using madVR to get the picture you want, rather than relying on a renderer that's clearly deviating from the original image by default.
Thank you,i try to do this as you said above.
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Old 25th April 2018, 06:08   #50358  |  Link
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Thank you @madshi for the new release
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Old 25th April 2018, 07:15   #50359  |  Link
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That said, the HDR output should probably be set to BT.2020 as you found. Almost everything HDR is encoded in the very wide BT.2020 color space so I think most displays do better mapping when receiving BT.2020.
But there is also to say that no TV or vpr, currently, sufficiently covers the color space BT.2020 (for example my vpr OPTOMA UHZ65 covers it at 56%), while there are some displays that cover the DCI-P3 to 100% .... then also in Madvr in the information says "BT.2020> DCI-P3", so "in this dispalay is already calibrated" would not it be fair to use DCI-P3?

Last edited by stefanelli73; 25th April 2018 at 07:17.
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Old 25th April 2018, 07:30   #50360  |  Link
LigH
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Master,why will madshi never integrate OpenGL in madVR ?
3D APIs are just different ways to the same goal: Graphic card internal features. DirectX under Windows is a more direct way there (and there may be even shorter paths), OpenGL under Windows rather a detour in comparison. The advantage of OpenGL is portability across different operating systems; that's not important for a DirectShow renderer which will work only under Windows anyway.
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