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Old 15th September 2017, 12:28   #45621  |  Link
Thunderbolt8
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@madshi, could you please give us a little up-to-date writeup which parameters of GPUs are most important for madVR speed? something which we can use as guidelines when looking for a new graphics card. e.g. when going to the "List of Nvidia graphics processing units" and "List of AMD graphics processing units" at wikipedia, which coloms of features (like bandwith for example) are most important.

would love to see this a) for general madVR speed and b) additional/different factors which possibly come into play with SSIM downscaling and NGU upscaling (if there are any compared to the general ones)
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Old 15th September 2017, 12:42   #45622  |  Link
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Originally Posted by tony359
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In the end I reverted to a non-LUT Windows calibration and I can get the proper black levels. HOWEVER, when MadVR switches to Exclusive mode, it seems the calibration gets disabled. When I switch back to windowed mode, it's still not applied. To overcome, I need to uncheck "disable GPU gamma ramps": that does not cause any change but when I check it again, the gamma and white balance change back to what it's intended. I can replicate this behaviour on my other system. In this case I have MadVR set to "disable calibration controls for this device" but setting "this display is already calibrated" also produces the same results.
This description confuses me. Especially the "that does not cause any changE [...]" sentence is totally unclear to me.
Apologies, let me clarify.
When I enable/disable the calibration I can visually see gamma/colour changes on the picture - that is the calibration being enabled/disabled.

Let me try and recap:

- "disable GPU gamma ramps" - unchecked. I can see the calibration is being applied and I am in windowed mode.

- MadVR switches to Exclusive: calibration not applied anymore ( I can see that visually)

- I switch back to windowed: calibration still not applied despite "disable GPU gamma ramps" is still unchecked.

- I check "disable GPU gamma ramps" in windowed mode: calibration not applied - as it should be, but it should have been applied before!

- I Uncheck "disable GPU gamma ramps" in windowed mode: now I see the calibration is being applied again.

- I switch back to exclusive mode: calibration is being disabled again (but "disable GPU gamma ramps" is still UNCHECKED).

I believe this is more obvious if your calibration is greatly different than your monitor native response - then you can clearly see the difference between calibration being enabled/disabled.
Thanks for your other advice: I already switched to 0-255 following a previous post.

I will ask the experts on AVS.

Cheers for your time!
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Old 15th September 2017, 12:50   #45623  |  Link
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that's a waste of time.

a simple example.
you have an old GCN 1.0 like a r9 270 with about 2.5 Gflop and compare it to a new GCN 2.0 RX 480 with 6 Gflops than the RX 480 is at least double as fast as the r9 270 but with NGU that not the case because of drivers or/and other stuff.


so a bigger card in the same series is generally faster for madVR and a bigger card is usually faster in everything.
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Old 15th September 2017, 13:44   #45624  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8 View Post
please give us a little up-to-date writeup which parameters of GPUs are most important for madVR speed?
As madshi has said, Just buy the fastest card you care to afford, don't think AMD is as good as Nvidia overall with madVR but maybe things have changed. I use a 960 for upscaling to fullhd and don't really need anything higher because upgrading doesn't yield that much benefit, but once things like denoising, deblocking, improvements to NGU etc come around I'll want a 1060 for sure and if dealing with 4K or 60fps, I'll probably want something closer to 1070 performance. Dealing with high frame framerate and high res is the biggest killer performance wise if you just calm your settings on that content you can get by on average hardware fine.

You're best pushing what you have then compare that to higher settings to see if it's worth it to upgrade. For me getting to NGU high/very high for certain resolutions doesn't justify the spend for the content I'm running (this will likely change with future updates) Run the right hardware for your demands, it's really quite easy to evaluate this for yourself.

madVR isn't a program where you just tick more things and select more demanding settings and better image happens, you gotta know what your goal is.
So far I've achieved like over 90% of what I want, no point in upgrading until the next big version comes along and there's something I just gotta have enabled.

Last edited by ryrynz; 15th September 2017 at 13:48.
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Old 15th September 2017, 14:44   #45625  |  Link
PurpleMan
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post

madVR does not have the ability so specifically switch to a custom mode or not. madVR can only ask the OS or D3D to switch to a specific resolution + refresh rate combination. Whether or not a custom mode is activated in this situation is totally up to the GPU driver and out of my control.

Did creating the custom mode actually succeed? Nvidia sometimes refuses to "install" a custom mode. On my PC is does that very often.

There's a setting in the Nvidia control panel in the "change resolution" tab "use Nvidia color settings" or something like that, which one user reported to help getting the custom mode to become active. Have you tried activating that? Also, try windowed vs. FSE mode, and D3D9 vs D3D11 presentation in madVR, these things can also make a difference.
Solved the issue.
Here are the steps on a clean install of the display driver and madVR:
1. Set the NVIDIA color settings to "use nvidia color settings".
2. In madVR control panel, create the custom resolution.
3. Go to NVIDIA control panel - resolution not listed there.
4. Click on "Customize..." to get to the create new custom resolution screen.
5. You'll see the custom resolution that madVR had created - but it's unchecked (as in - disabled). Check it and click OK.
6. New custom mode appears on the main resolution selection screen (although listed as 24hz).
7. madVR now changes to that resolution when choosing 2160p23 regardless of the mode (FSE/D3D9/DSD11).

Hope this helps.
Cheers!
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Old 15th September 2017, 16:06   #45626  |  Link
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@madshi : I tested the screenshot functionnality with MediaPortal (latest "madVR test build" v327), but it only works with D3D9 presentation and not D3D11. Is this a bug, or do you think it's because MediaPortal is using D3D9 for its GUI and it somehows conflicts with madVR's screen capture?
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Old 15th September 2017, 16:43   #45627  |  Link
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You say you've tried most of that, but I'd like you to reply to each of my suggestions/comments with detailed information, otherwise I don't have sufficient information to help.
Okay. Thanks.


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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
There are many possible reasons why this could happen. Here are a couple of questions and comments:

1) When you say "blu-ray player" do you mean a 1080p Blu-Ray player and a 1080p Blu-Ray, or are we talking about UHD Blu-Ray? This is a really important difference, and missing in your post.

It's an Xbox One S (4K player). And I get the same -good- results with the TV's own player.

2) In your blu-ray player, can you choose different output settings, like RGB vs 4:2:0 vs 4:2:2 vs 4:4:4 etc? Can you try to see if any of them looks different, maybe nearer to what the PC outputs? If so, that might indicate that your TV might not handle one specific type of input as well as another. Otherwise, if all looks the same, we can probably rule out the TV as the guilty party here.

It has the 'allow HDR and 4K" options ticked, and then colour deph: 10 Bit, color space: standard.

On PC, I've tried all colour options available on NvidiaControl Panel: 12 bit RGB 444, 12 bit ycbycr 422, 420, 8 bit...


3) For a fair test, use the same HDMI port with the identical TV settings for both the blu-ray player and the PC.

I did, I just used the hdmi 1 port. (my tv only supports hdr on one port)

4) In your PC, I (always) strongly recommend to use RGB output with 0-255 (Full) range. Try the madVR "use D3D11 for presentation" option and in the display properties tell madVR that your display supports 10bit. Finally, make sure that in your GPU control panel there are no funny color modifications, skin tone optimizations or other crap enabled.

For my system, it works best if I set the PC to 12 bit RGB 444 (24hz) or Ycbycr 422 16-235 on NCP -and madVR to 0-255 10 bit. Blacks don't look washed out like this, (and use D3D11 for presentation ticked). I also tried LAV filters latest nightly D3D11 decoder. ( I'm clueless about this, I thought I should use CUVID as an nvidia user --anyway made no difference).

5) Have you tried resetting madVR to default settings, just to be safe?

Yes, did that yesterday. I also reinstalled Nvidia drivers just in case...

6) Do you have the OS setting "HDR and Advanced Color" turned on or off? Please make sure it's turned OFF, because it's a really bad option.

Yes, it's off.

7) If all else fails, you could also try to let madVR convert the HDR content to SDR for you (using pixel shader math). It could look better or worse than what the Samsung does internally, when receiving HDR content. You can also try different "display peak nits" values.

Not tried this yet, but I'm not happy about the idea of converting the picture to SDR. :/


Here's a screenshot of a sample of Life Of Pi, with all my mad VR settings.

https://abload.de/img/sinttulo76swp.png

My TV doesn't have a true 10 Bit panel, it has (i think) 8 bit + FRC. Maybe that's why colours are not right? Maybe I should set my display to 8 bit; madVR to 8 bit; disable dithering in madVr. And let the TV do its 8 bit + dithering when it detects the HDR signal? I'll give that a try.

Last edited by mrmarioman; 17th September 2017 at 01:24.
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Old 15th September 2017, 17:02   #45628  |  Link
Ver Greeneyes
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
madVR v0.92.3 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

Code:
* added extended screenshot functionality, new settings page etc
Tiny bug: The settings page is called "screeenshots" with 3 "e"s

Edit: Just tried it, seems to work well!

Last edited by Ver Greeneyes; 15th September 2017 at 17:05.
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Old 15th September 2017, 17:35   #45629  |  Link
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madVR v0.92.3 released
Big thanks, again a great release :P
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Old 15th September 2017, 19:38   #45630  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I'd recommend it, but it's your choice.
Linear light for downscaling after using NGU?

Was it a choice not to show linear light in the stats? I can see the render times change, but it only says bicubic60 ar, bicubic150 ar, etc. No "LL". This is true whether I choose use image downscale settings, let madvr decide, or if I pick one from the drop-down myself.

Last edited by JarrettH; 15th September 2017 at 20:00.
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Old 15th September 2017, 20:38   #45631  |  Link
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Originally Posted by JarrettH View Post
Linear light for downscaling after using NGU?

Was it a choice not to show linear light in the stats? I can see the render times change, but it only says bicubic60 ar, bicubic150 ar, etc. No "LL". This is true whether I choose use image downscale settings, let madvr decide, or if I pick one from the drop-down myself.
Indeed it doesn't show linear light in the OSD...
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Old 15th September 2017, 21:07   #45632  |  Link
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Does anyone know what is the reason for such kind of artifacts? They are appearing only while playing 4K HDR 10 bit content on non HDR displays. The artifacts are there regardless of the decoder chosen in LAV Video and whether or not I am using HDR to SDR conversion in madVR.

http://www.mammutmail.com/hu/downloa...013154b6fea0dd
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Old 15th September 2017, 23:22   #45633  |  Link
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Hi. Help me with chroma doubling settings, please.
I read here NGU AA for chroma upscaling and NGU Sharp for luma doubling is normal sharp option. But what happens if i want NGU Sharp chroma doubling too? Can i combine NGU AA chroma upscaling and very sharp NGU Sharp chroma doubling? In this case the sharpness of the algorithm used in chroma doubling section exceed the sharpness of the algorithm used in the chroma upscaling section, this settings normal?
I ask because never used setup like this and my test it is 1-2 week real usage expirience, hope you protect me of strange results in the chroma layer Sr for bad eng.
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Old 15th September 2017, 23:28   #45634  |  Link
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This is actually what happens when you pick "NGU Sharp" high or very high for image doubling and use "let madVR decide" for chroma doubling (it uses bicubic60 for chroma with image doubling quality at low). madVR does not allow you to use a different NGU for chroma doubling compared to luma doubling.

This is a perfectly fine thing to do and I used these settings for a long time (until a new screen caused me to switch to NGU AA for image doubling too). It is probably overkill but it does not cause artifacts or anything bad.
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Old 15th September 2017, 23:35   #45635  |  Link
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Ok, thanks for your reply.
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Old 16th September 2017, 00:02   #45636  |  Link
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Madshi,

When switching to FSE the player freezes. This deoesn't happen before v.23
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Old 16th September 2017, 00:29   #45637  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post

Ok, so where' the crash report for me to look at?


Please generally don't use interlaced output modes with your HTPC, unless there's absolutely no other way to sync to your TV in FullHD.


Seems the render queue doesn't fill, but I'm not sure why...

hy,

the crash is not happening anymore with the new build..
so thats fine now.

sadly i only have an 30hz 1080i TV, theres sadly no 1080p mode or 720p (but it did work fine before..)

i just tested in FSE Mode now, cause i didnt have the time really, it is working way better now, from 8 times i started the movie, only 2 times it happened that the render queue didnt fill up..

im going to test some more over the weekend and will be back with more detailed results + an error report, or an LOG where it shows what happens when the queue doesnt fill up..

greetings

edit:
little question, are the render times very important?
in windowed mode the render times are slightly better then with FSE Mode..

also, just an littel observation, when the gpu´s VRam downclocks the render times tripple. and sometimes the queue starts to lag behind a bit. from 9/10 to 8/10.
when i use CUDA in LAV, this does not happen since Cuda doesnt downclock, but thats not what i want..i guess theres nothing you can do against this behavior. id just wish the vram wouldnt or only downclock to 1500 or 2000 instead of 350mhz..(3050) is normal.

@aufkawall

would you know of a tool or a quick and easy way to fix this?
like , dunno, making an profile in nvidiainspector?

im not shure, so i guess i would ask here..

greetz

Last edited by BetA13; 16th September 2017 at 00:41.
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Old 16th September 2017, 01:37   #45638  |  Link
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Queueing is there to compensate for exactly that kind of thing. If it worries you that the lower number of queue gets down to 8 when clocks are adapted then set the queue size to 11.

Another question: as you're saying that you get less stutter and lower rendering times in Windowed mode, is there a reason you're using FSE instead? Do you have less presentation glitches in FSE?
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Old 16th September 2017, 03:52   #45639  |  Link
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Using 0.92.3, trying mode switching for the first time on a desktop monitor (1920x1080 native). madVR switches to the custom mode just fine (1080p75), but doesn't restore the current mode (1080p71) when I close the player as I've specified in the settings. I'm running the current version of Win 10, and the OS recognizes both modes. Standard is a custom mode that gives me a 71.928 refresh rate.

Am I doing something wrong? Any workarounds?

Last edited by jkauff; 16th September 2017 at 04:06.
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Old 16th September 2017, 04:31   #45640  |  Link
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Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
Queueing is there to compensate for exactly that kind of thing. If it worries you that the lower number of queue gets down to 8 when clocks are adapted then set the queue size to 11.

Another question: as you're saying that you get less stutter and lower rendering times in Windowed mode, is there a reason you're using FSE instead? Do you have less presentation glitches in FSE?
i didnt mean i get less stutter in windowed mode, i mean at least not anymore with the new version of MadVR.
But the Render times, yes, they are slightly better..

to be honest, i was reading a lot back then about madvr and how to BEST set it up, etc..And it always said that its best to use teh FSE Mode. Then i started testing around for month and realized it isnt as easy as i thought and everyone has a different setup, etc.., anyway, i also thought , from my testing, that the Color did look kinda different with FSE Mode on, but that could also be placebo.

But, thinking about your question and reviewing my tests, i would say, for me, on my machine, there isnt really a reason for the FSE Mode, (that is, if this "color" thing is a placebo), or if i stumble on something again and FSE would help..

Heres a quote of the guides i was reading back then. (taken from the jriver wiki)

Quote:
Enable automatic fullscreen exclusive mode allows madVR to use “fullscreen exclusive mode” for video rendering. This can potentially give you some big performance improvements, and allows for several frames to be sent to the video card in advance, which can help eliminate random stuttering during playback. It will also prevent things like notifications from other applications being displayed on the screen at the same time, and similar to the Windowed Overlay mode, it stops “Print Screen” from working.
That was kinda also the reason for using it, and the preventing of notifications also is a huge PLUS for me..

Im fine with all this testing, it kinda never gets boring.
And on the Plus side you will learn a lot of new stuff. I always was a sucker for how things work.

i hope this answers your question

Greetz

Last edited by BetA13; 16th September 2017 at 04:44.
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